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G for hart!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old
03-12-2012, 09:12 PM
  #1
flyguys7475
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G for hart!!!!!!!!!!!!

unfortunatley malkin will probably run away with the hart but think about it. claude came into the season with the pressure of philadelphia on his back after trading mike and jeff. malkin didnt have the pressure giroux had on him. i think the voters really need to take into consideration what giroux has done this year under pressure. he NEEDS to win the hart, but if he doesnt this year. he will eventually

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03-12-2012, 09:34 PM
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litflyersfan
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Originally Posted by flyguys7475 View Post
unfortunatley malkin will probably run away with the hart but think about it. claude came into the season with the pressure of philadelphia on his back after trading mike and jeff. malkin didnt have the pressure giroux had on him. i think the voters really need to take into consideration what giroux has done this year under pressure. he NEEDS to win the hart, but if he doesnt this year. he will eventually
Easy there, define what you mean by pressure. Without Crosby, Malkin's supporting cast is not nearly as deep as Giroux's (more pressure on Malkin to pick up the slack). If you mean pressure by trading off 2 key top forwards (Richie, Carter) in the off-season then yes Giroux was forced into a more important role and he's handled it with flying colors. But if Malkin gets the award it's because he earned it don't take that away from him, as much as I hate him he's still one hell of a talent.

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03-12-2012, 10:04 PM
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MsWoof
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You also have to look at Quick in LA. They'd be fighting with Columbus without him. He likely won't figure in the voting because the west always seems to get looked over but he's been amazing for them.

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03-12-2012, 10:32 PM
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Someone mentioned Lundqvist in the other thread about Giroux. I think its between Lundqvist and Malkin with Giroux finishing third. The Crosby factor will be huge in voting and Lundqvist has been ridiculous. Giroux has had a great season, but compared to Malkin (less games/more points, less of a supporting cast, team will likely finish higher in the standings) and Lundqvist (only allowed more than three goals four times all season and has not allowed more than four once, 8 shutouts thus far), he just doesn't really stack up. He's not too far off, but compared to those two he doesn't have the resume.

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03-12-2012, 11:31 PM
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I believe he'll at least be a nominee this year, which in itself is huge.

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03-13-2012, 08:29 AM
  #6
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i'm sorry but i think renne in nashville gets the hart this year, he's as steady and clutch as goalies get and ws the first goalie to 40 wins this season.

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03-13-2012, 08:49 AM
  #7
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If Kings make it to the playoffs, then Quick should definitely win the Hart imo. Another guy I think should be mentioned is Stamkos, he is pretty much the only reason the Lightnings have been able to at least somewhat stay in the playoff picture for this long. Malkin will be a worthy winner though, he's been great for the Pens this year.

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03-13-2012, 09:46 AM
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You gotta wait til its over but it has to be Quick if they make it. how many more games would they have lost without him. They barely scored a goal a game for over a month. Giroux has proven to be a major stud tho. To come in smooth as hell and laugh at all the pressure laid on him. If there was an anti-hart it should go to JVR. he disappointed the hell outta me this year. i know he was hurt a lot but come on

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03-13-2012, 10:27 AM
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Broad Street Elite
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2012 - Hart - Malkin

Sure, I'd love to see G get it, but under similar circumstances to G (losing Richards and Carter is similar to losing Crosby), Malkin and the Pens have been just a little better than Giroux and the Flyers. Bit more points, points per game, 5 versus 8 in game-winning goals, and even the entirely over-rated +/- rating. Just not many ways you can argue that G has had a superior season imo.

Giroux should be a finalist, however.

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Old
03-13-2012, 10:46 AM
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phillyfanatic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SedinSandwich View Post
I believe he'll at least be a nominee this year, which in itself is huge.
I doubt it. He had a great year, but I don't think he is top 3 MVP race.

1. Malkin
2. Stamkos
3. Karlsson
4. Lundquist
5. Giroux

IMO

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Old
03-13-2012, 11:15 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
I doubt it. He had a great year, but I don't think he is top 3 MVP race.

1. Malkin
2. Stamkos
3. Karlsson
4. Lundquist
5. Giroux

IMO
For me, until a "best forward" trophy exists in the same mold as the Norris and Vezina trophies it should be (and frankly is) incredibly difficult for a goaltender or defenseman to win a Hart trophy.

Karlsson is certainly a Norris finalist, but I would not call him the runaway favorite at this point and that's what you'd have to be to get into Hart consideration as a defenseman in today's game.

Lundquist is probably Giroux's chief competition for the spot, but depending on the next 14 games, Giroux could easily pass Stamkos in my mind.

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03-13-2012, 11:18 AM
  #12
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IF Giroux goes onto a tear here in there last 14 games, he has a great chance. He needs to start potting some important goals and dominating the opposition like he did before his concussion. Still is playing great but after that happened seemed like he slowed down a bit which is understandable. If he can deposit 23-27 points in the next 14, he definitely has a chance to steal it from Malkin. That of course is if we are winning hockey games though.

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Old
03-13-2012, 12:09 PM
  #13
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If Tampa Bay sneaks in, it's Stamkos. Otherwise, I think Malkin wins it. Giroux, Quick and Lundqvist are also right up there, but I think Malkin takes it because of how he's carried Pitt with all the Crosby uncertainty.

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03-13-2012, 12:32 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyerSithLord View Post
If Tampa Bay sneaks in, it's Stamkos. Otherwise, I think Malkin wins it. Giroux, Quick and Lundqvist are also right up there, but I think Malkin takes it because of how he's carried Pitt with all the Crosby uncertainty.
I agree, Malkin and Stamkos you could argue have similar supporting casts. However, Stamkos is going to hit 50 maybe even 60 goals and carries the worst defensive team in the league.

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03-13-2012, 04:22 PM
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phillyfanatic
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Not sure how everyone is leaving Karlsson off their lists. The guy is 7th in league scoring as a defenceman. He is 25 points clear of second on the list. He is only 2 points out of the NHL top 5 in scoring (he might hit 80 f'ing points). Without him, The Sens are probably a lottery team this year. I love Giroux but Karlsson is the more valuable to his team, IMO. In fact, I would argue he is the Most Valuable Player to his team in the NHL. And that, is the definition of the trophy.

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Old
03-13-2012, 04:30 PM
  #16
sobrien
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IMO:
Malkin
Quick
Lundqvist
Giroux
Stamkos

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03-13-2012, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Not sure how everyone is leaving Karlsson off their lists. The guy is 7th in league scoring as a defenceman. He is 25 points clear of second on the list. He is only 2 points out of the NHL top 5 in scoring (he might hit 80 f'ing points). Without him, The Sens are probably a lottery team this year. I love Giroux but Karlsson is the more valuable to his team, IMO. In fact, I would argue he is the Most Valuable Player to his team in the NHL. And that, is the definition of the trophy.
If only his defensive play were up to those standards.

But yea, I see Malkin winning it, with the top 3 being Malkin-Stamkos-Giroux.

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03-13-2012, 04:55 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Not sure how everyone is leaving Karlsson off their lists. The guy is 7th in league scoring as a defenceman. He is 25 points clear of second on the list. He is only 2 points out of the NHL top 5 in scoring (he might hit 80 f'ing points). Without him, The Sens are probably a lottery team this year. I love Giroux but Karlsson is the more valuable to his team, IMO. In fact, I would argue he is the Most Valuable Player to his team in the NHL. And that, is the definition of the trophy.
People are basing it off the reality of the award. You are probably right about the Sens without Karlsson and he is definitely a favorite for the Norris. Simply put, Defensemen do not win the Hart. The last to even be a finalist was Pronger in '00... and Pronger brought less points than Karlsson, but was an amazing leader and a better shutdown defenseman than Karlsson has been this year.

Should he be in consideration? I'd still argue no. He's a lot of points behind Malkin in spite of playing a ton more minutes.

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Old
03-13-2012, 05:02 PM
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I'm sort of curious why so many are including Quick? He's had a great year and is absolutely a Vezina finalist. Lundqvist has had a better season by almost any measure.

The Kings play one of the most dramatically defensive systems in the league. You can look at the tremendous offensive talent they have in Kopitar, Richards, Carter, Williams, Doughty, Brown. Those guys aren't all having down years suddenly for no reason.... their system is an incredible asset to Quick and an incredible detriment to their offense.

Before I get jumped on about Quick, I'm not claiming he is a product of system... I'm saying he is bolstered significantly by it. Even with that bolster, he simply does not match Lundqvist and therefore, imo, he doesn't belong in the Hart discussion.

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03-14-2012, 01:16 PM
  #20
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would love for giroux to win it but my prediction is stamkos looks like he is gunna end up with 60 not malkin only because crosby will take away his points in the last 12 games or so

but its nice to see lavi on board ( letting giroux play the whole 2 mins on the PP up 3-0 with 2 minutes left in the game )

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03-14-2012, 01:48 PM
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phillyfanatic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
People are basing it off the reality of the award. You are probably right about the Sens without Karlsson and he is definitely a favorite for the Norris. Simply put, Defensemen do not win the Hart. The last to even be a finalist was Pronger in '00... and Pronger brought less points than Karlsson, but was an amazing leader and a better shutdown defenseman than Karlsson has been this year.

Should he be in consideration? I'd still argue no. He's a lot of points behind Malkin in spite of playing a ton more minutes.
Really? Malkin has 84 points, tied with Stamkos, 4 up on Giroux. He "may" win the scoring race. Karlsson has 69 points. He is 25 clear of the next defenseman! As we know goals are very difficult for a defenseman to get; Karlsson has 18 to Malkins 38. Assists, Karlsson has 51 to Malkins 46. Powerplay points 27 each. +/-, Malkin is a +5, Karlsson is a +15 on a much lesser team.

Rather than Malkin, Giroux, Stamkos. I see Malkin, Stamkos, Karlsson. Those are the "most valuable players to their team". I personally don't think goalies should be included in the discussion - but since they are, Hank probably gets into the top 3.

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03-14-2012, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Really? Malkin has 84 points, tied with Stamkos, 4 up on Giroux. He "may" win the scoring race. Karlsson has 69 points. He is 25 clear of the next defenseman! As we know goals are very difficult for a defenseman to get; Karlsson has 18 to Malkins 38. Assists, Karlsson has 51 to Malkins 46. Powerplay points 27 each. +/-, Malkin is a +5, Karlsson is a +15 on a much lesser team.

Rather than Malkin, Giroux, Stamkos. I see Malkin, Stamkos, Karlsson. Those are the "most valuable players to their team". I personally don't think goalies should be included in the discussion - but since they are, Hank probably gets into the top 3.
I agree with this. Hell, Karlsson is only two even strength points behind Giroux.

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Old
03-14-2012, 02:23 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
2012 - Hart - Malkin

Sure, I'd love to see G get it, but under similar circumstances to G (losing Richards and Carter is similar to losing Crosby), Malkin and the Pens have been just a little better than Giroux and the Flyers. Bit more points, points per game, 5 versus 8 in game-winning goals, and even the entirely over-rated +/- rating. Just not many ways you can argue that G has had a superior season imo.

Giroux should be a finalist, however.
No it's not. Losing Richards and Carter got the Flyers a return of four NHL players, the Pens got nothing from Crosby's mushbrain.

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03-14-2012, 04:51 PM
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Should be Karlsson (Spezza playing great but look what this guy has done for them) or maybe Quick if L.A. gets in.. Will be Malkin with Stamkos second if the Lightning get in (Longhsot, but Stamkos might get 2nd anyway). If Giroux can lead the league in points he would have a chance, but he would have to pass Malkin and the Pens can't get the #1 seed.

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03-14-2012, 04:54 PM
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Giroux has been amazing this year. He reminds me of Malkin in the way that he just takes over games offensively. But I think it's going to as goalie this season, Lundy or Quick

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