Grow up, Don Cherry spent most of his playing and coaching in USA he married an American wife Rose who died of cancer.So he is a proud canadian good for him
I actually view those in favor of mediocrity and even incompetence such that has been provided by Mr. Burke and his old pal, Ron Wilson, as a slap in the face. It really is a form of trolling. Equivalent to me going on the Columbus Blue Jackets board and baiting on the 9 Blue Jacket fans by trumpeting their management team and the fantastic job it is performing.
Amazing that you can complain about trolling the sentence after you troll anyone who disagrees with you. I haven't seen any posters in favour of mediocrity or incompetence, care to point out where you get that impression?
The people I'm thinking of were vocal at the beginning of the season about everything being a negative, as they were in every season they've been active here. If you call everyone a criminal, you will have correctly identified criminals as criminals... but your shooting percentage sucked.
Kudos to them -- they got a) Ron Wilson's system costing us in the end and b) a bad decision re: goaltending right. Someone probably got the Kulemin thing right, too (that he'd regress). Three for... a lot more than three.
No doubt there are extremes on the super happy funtime side too -- though I don't see them derailing every thread to talk about how everything is fine and no changes need to be made. There are also people in between, no doubt, leaning towards the positives or the negatives. I consider myself fairly optimistic about the team going forward, but going into the season I a) wasn't happy about the goaltending situation, b) figured Kulemin would regress, c) figured Connolly would be an okay centre for Kessel for the two seasons, and d) thought this team would make the playoffs if they could get through 2011 in a playoff position. I guess I'm batting .500. (Edit: I was also confident that Lupul and Bozak would be good linemates for Kessel, but I wouldn't have bet money on it and definitely didn't predict that line would have as good a year as they were having, so I won't take credit for that.)
Fans can be happy about the direction the team is going or unhappy about the direction the team is going and anywhere in between. I believe that this is their right as fans.
The fact that the some Leafs fans have not been happy with anything that has gone on in the last several years should not be a surprise as seen by the results. When looking back there has not been much to be happy about. So if you take that information into consideration then, are the naysayers just here to bait and incite or are they just being realistic?
Since you've just admitted that Wilson wasn't exactly a sweetheart, then maybe some of "personal attacks" were just criticisms that were warranted based on Wilson's behaviour and performance as a coach?
Crazy to consider I know...
If Cherry is using a public pulpit to continually criticize one coach's personality without ever having met the guy then the Leafs have a right to ask that he shut up about it.
I really hope Rogers/Bell take the Leafs away from HNIC. From the commentators to Coach's corner its 2 and a half hours of Leafs bashing, sure they deserve it for playing awful. But it was happening when we were winning too.
I understand when the commentators want to be fair, when there is another Canadian team playing the leafs, but I don't need to hear how amazing every team is compared to the Leafs.
Simpson, Healy, Mclean (After the Burke interview) and MAINLY Don Cherry. I hope these are the men responsible for losing the Leafs off their programming.. Enjoy Winning/Ottawa/Montreal and the crappy ratings they bring along (in comparison to the Leafs) CBC.
I'm sorry I just don't see how this argument works. If Cherry was criticizing the entire Maple Leaf organization then sure, I'd see your argument.
It's really quite simple.
Cherry had a few of choices to make prior to his segment. He could not even mention the ceremony, he could praise the the Maple Leaf organization for honoring the Canadian Forces, or he could mention a negative about the ceremony and expose it at the expense of Ron Wilson, and by association the Maple Leaf organization.
Cherry chose the low road. It had nothing to do with Wilson's coaching abilities and was completely unnecessary and uncalled for.
I really hope Rogers/Bell take the Leafs away from HNIC. From the commentators to Coach's corner its 2 and a half hours of Leafs bashing, sure they deserve it for playing awful. But it was happening when we were winning too.
I understand when the commentators want to be fair, when there is another Canadian team playing the leafs, but I don't need to hear how amazing every team is compared to the Leafs.
Simpson, Healy, Mclean (After the Burke interview) and MAINLY Don Cherry. I hope these are the men responsible for losing the Leafs off their programming.. Enjoy Winning/Ottawa/Montreal and the crappy ratings they bring along (in comparison to the Leafs) CBC.
So pro Burke on this AINEC.
The CBC (especially Cherry) is often criticized for having a pro-Toronto bias. I'd hope that every media outlet would rip the Leafs for the past seven years of ****.
I don't even know where to begin.
The CBC is often considered for being pro-maple leaf(especially Cherry) by many people. I'd hope that the CBC would be critical of the Leafs. It's been 8
Cherry had a few of choices to make prior to his segment. He could not even mention the ceremony, he could praise the the Maple Leaf organization for honoring the Canadian Forces, or he could mention a negative about the ceremony and expose it at the expense of Ron Wilson, and by association the Maple Leaf organization.
Cherry chose the low road. It had nothing to do with Wilson's coaching abilities and was completely unnecessary and uncalled for.
Still don't get how you're making this leap....are you saying that any time someone criticizes a member of the Maple Leafs they are criticizing the Maple Leaf organization?
Fans can be happy about the direction the team is going or unhappy about the direction the team is going and anywhere in between. I believe that this is their right as fans.
The fact that the some Leafs fans have not been happy with anything that has gone on in the last several years should not be a surprise as seen by the results. When looking back there has not been much to be happy about. So if you take that information into consideration then, are the naysayers just here to bait and incite or are they just being realistic?
You're asking if they're trying to do two things that aren't really opposites or related, so you kind of lost me there, but I'll try to clarify. Please note I'm using a general 'you' here and not pinning this on you or any other specific poster.
They are here (as in, posting on the board and in threads) to bait and incite, even if their viewpoints or positions are "realistic" after years of disappointment and a desire for change. Yes, you might feel slighted, yes, you might be angry.
Flying into unrelated threads to tell the world how we lost the Kessel trade, how Kadri is a bust because he's still in the AHL, how Schenn is a bust because we didn't keep him in the AHL, and how Brian Burke/Ron Wilson/Francois Allaire/Ted in Accounting need to be fired is unnecessary, intentionally antagonistic (trying to incite either support for your cause or anger in others), and non-constructive. It may be a 'realistic' reflection of your anger and frustration (even if someone may be overreacting), but it's still an act done to bait and incite. Maybe you're just doing it to vent, but if you need to vent that often, you should keep away from hockey for a year.
Those are the people I have an issue with. Not the people that are perpetually pessimistic and negative but keep their anger and outrage constrained to relevant threads (though I do dislike the ones that more or less just hate Brian Burke "because" and can't provide justification for their hatred beyond "BUT BUT KESSEL, AND HERE ARE SOME QUOTES LOL PLAYOFFS LOL REIMER", but at least they're still in the right thread).
For example (I'm making these posts up but they're not uncharacteristic of these boards):
Post in a GDT: "Ron Wilson really needs to go. The team isn't motivated, his system is getting exposed and he's done nothing to try and prevent himself from being outcoached, he appears to have lost the room, and we're sliding fast out of the playoffs. The only way we can save this godforsaken season is if we bring in a new coach to make up for Brian Burke screwing up by holding on to Wilson for too long." Good.
Post in a GDT: "RON WILSON IS A [EXPLETIVE] IDIOT AND BRIAN BURKE NEEDS TO STOP [EXPLETIVE] HIS AMERICAN LOVER. THANKS FOR TRADING AWAY SEGUIN YOU IDIOT." Bad.
Post in a thread about Tim Connolly: "Tim Connolly was a bad signing. Being stuck with him next year is going to limit our flexibility, and we can't afford to bring up one of the kids as long as he's here. I think this was a terrible signing by Burke, and one of many that makes me think he's a bad judge of talent." Good.
Post in a thread about Tim Connolly: "Maybe if that fat idiot Burke had been in his office on Canada Day we'd have signed Brad Richards instead of Tin Man, or if he hadn't traded for Kessel we'd already have a #1 in Tyler Seguin." Bad, but at least it's somewhat relevant to the thread.
Edit: P.S. Some people do stuff in the above style while still being erudite (or at least trying to pretend to sound intellectual). It doesn't mean they aren't trolling, baiting, or otherwise trying to incite a flamewar. It just means they can usually get away with it.
And now you're complaining about personal attacks, the same thing you're criticizing Burke for.
I 'm not criticizing Burke for personal attacks....just the method.
Also may I point out that I did not send a complaint to the Mods .....I'm posting here for him to read. mooseOAK is the person complaining about the personal attacks. I just pointed out the flaw in his response.
You're asking if they're trying to do two things that aren't really opposites or related, so you kind of lost me there, but I'll try to clarify. Please note I'm using a general 'you' here and not pinning this on you or any other specific poster.
They are here (as in, posting on the board and in threads) to bait and incite, even if their viewpoints or positions are "realistic" after years of disappointment and a desire for change. Yes, you might feel slighted, yes, you might be angry.
Flying into unrelated threads to tell the world how we lost the Kessel trade, how Kadri is a bust because he's still in the AHL, how Schenn is a bust because we didn't keep him in the AHL, and how Brian Burke/Ron Wilson/Francois Allaire/Ted in Accounting need to be fired is unnecessary, intentionally antagonistic (trying to incite either support for your cause or anger in others), and non-constructive. It may be a 'realistic' reflection of your anger and frustration (even if someone may be overreacting), but it's still an act done to bait and incite. Maybe you're just doing it to vent, but if you need to vent that often, you should keep away from hockey for a year.
Those are the people I have an issue with. Not the people that are perpetually pessimistic and negative but keep their anger and outrage constrained to relevant threads (though I do dislike the ones that more or less just hate Brian Burke "because" and can't provide justification for their hatred beyond "BUT BUT KESSEL, AND HERE ARE SOME QUOTES LOL PLAYOFFS LOL REIMER", but at least they're still in the right thread).
For example (I'm making these posts up but they're not uncharacteristic of these boards):
Post in a GDT: "Ron Wilson really needs to go. The team isn't motivated, his system is getting exposed and he's done nothing to try and prevent himself from being outcoached, he appears to have lost the room, and we're sliding fast out of the playoffs. The only way we can save this godforsaken season is if we bring in a new coach to make up for Brian Burke screwing up by holding on to Wilson for too long." Good.
Post in a GDT: "RON WILSON IS A [EXPLETIVE] IDIOT AND BRIAN BURKE NEEDS TO STOP [EXPLETIVE] HIS AMERICAN LOVER. THANKS FOR TRADING AWAY SEGUIN YOU IDIOT." Bad.
Post in a thread about Tim Connolly: "Tim Connolly was a bad signing. Being stuck with him next year is going to limit our flexibility, and we can't afford to bring up one of the kids as long as he's here. I think this was a terrible signing by Burke, and one of many that makes me think he's a bad judge of talent." Good.
Post in a thread about Tim Connolly: "Maybe if that fat idiot Burke had been in his office on Canada Day we'd have signed Brad Richards instead of Tin Man, or if he hadn't traded for Kessel we'd already have a #1 in Tyler Seguin." Bad, but at least it's somewhat relevant to the thread.
Edit: P.S. Some people do stuff in the above style while still being erudite (or at least trying to pretend to sound intellectual). It doesn't mean they aren't trolling, baiting, or otherwise trying to incite a flamewar. It just means they can usually get away with it.
First of all thanks for the reply.
I think that trolling is not easy to see or define as it is subjective. If the discussion in the thread is about the Leafs.....then posting an opinion about any part of the Leafs is fair.
This is a Leafs fan forum and I believe that posting about the Leafs either pro or con should be acceptable. I myself felt that Hiring Burke was a great thing. I now however feel that he has failed to do as he promised and has not accomplish much. I will not list my reason why but I'm sure that you are aware of the complaints that people have.
The Leafs are lucky has they have us.....all of us, the most passionate and loyal hockey fans in the world. Expression of the passion takes many forms and not all will be deemed appropriate by all fans. This is a forum for fans to communicate their passion and IMHO this should not only be allowed but encouraged. The personal insults are not a necessary part of this forum. This should be the mods focus.....but being a moderator is difficult , I am very aware of this as I have been a moderator of a hockey forum for 8 years.
Have I point out the personal attacks on here, yes. I am also guilt of this when provoked without provocation.....not as perfect as I would like to be!
All those things seem to be separated by very large grey areas. The simplest way to approach it is to not allow the NHL to make decisions on broadcast partners based on the criticisms of their on-air personnel. The media must be allowed to be independent. End of story.
The media must always be held to a standard of professionalism.
You're not the only military member. I'm still serving as an NCO. Odd how you and I as former and current military members are not offended in the least that Wilson was caught on camera for a few seconds not clapping.
I used to support Cherry with the way he always took time to focus on the military and it's people but taking shots at someone the way he has about clapping during a ceremony and using the public forum to back his personal agenda with Wilson has me seeing things in a different light. I agree with you that if someone doesn't want to show support, that's their right and all I can do is nod and move on.
As for disrespect, well I happen to be a bit of an expert on ceremonial procedures. For all those who like to point at Wilson, I will ask this. How many of you have Canadian flags hanging on your wall, over your windows or around yours or your kids necks and wear it like a cape? How many of you have torn, tattered, dirty flags flying from a flag pole? All of those show disrespect towards the flag you hold so dear.
You know to this day, I cringe when working on my flag outside my house if it comes anywhere near touching the ground....it's like I'd almost dive to get under even the tip of it touching!
