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When Markov's back, what happens to Kaberle?

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Old
03-13-2012, 10:26 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Guys, Kaberle isn't good. Just accept it. We got hosed on this one. He's way past his best before date and is a one dimensional spot PP player. That's it. I could sort of understand it if we were a playoff team with a weakness that we couldn't address any other way. If you're really that desperate for help on the PP okay, I guess it makes sense.

But when you're in our situation it makes no sense at all to add this guy. I know our PP was bad and all but sticking ourselves with this guy didn't make much sense. It was PG desperately trying to hang onto his job. He didn't care about long term success it was just about squeaking into 8th. That's why we need to get rid of this guy.

If we can dump TK for anything we should do it. The return doesn't matter, just get this guy off the roster and make way for some of the younger prospects in our system.

I'm going to let MT and you have this going back and forth but... to call Carolina a cup winner is a uh, a bit of a stretch. That's like calling the Isles a cup winner. Yeah, it happened. But it happened a looooong time ago.

Oh this made me
Carolina's GM is a cup winning GM. Its not the same as Garth Snow claiming Bill Torrey's successes.... the point was, look the cup winning GM didn't want him. Well guess what, Rutherford did.

He didn't fit in Carolina, there were chemistry issues, and they later traded him, but he did sign there, and a Cup Winning GM did give him his current contract.

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03-13-2012, 10:33 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Carolina's GM is a cup winning GM. Its not the same as Garth Snow claiming Bill Torrey's successes....
It's still a stretch man. I'll just leave it at that.
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
the point was, look the cup winning GM didn't want him. Well guess what, Rutherford did.

He didn't fit in Carolina, there were chemistry issues, and they later traded him, but he did sign there, and a Cup Winning GM did give him his current contract.
Well Gomez signed in NY by Glen Sather (another cup winning GM) it was a stupid contract and they managed to sluff him off on us. Does Sather having won a cup change the fact that this was a flat out stupid contract to sign? No.

It wasn't chemistry issues btw, it was Kaberle not being a very good player and them finding out they'd made a bad decision. Gomez, Kaberle, Bourque... we've become a dumping ground for other GMs to lay their crap off on. It's shocking the amount of talent we've let walk out the door for little to no return and it's almost as bad to see the crap we've picked up from other clubs.

A new GM can't come soon enough. Let's hope we get it right this time.

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03-13-2012, 10:47 AM
  #203
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It wasn't chemistry issues?

How else do you explain that last season and the 4 years before that he was a 45-50 pt guy

How else do you explain that in the 40 games with Montreal he continues to be on pace to be the same player.

Just because a guy didn't work for 2 months in one stop during his NHL career doesn't make him crap... just look at Erik Cole in Edmonton.

Kaberle has been the same player virtually everywhere... an offensively productive defenceman who has defensive issues and needs a steady defensive partner to be effective. This hasn't changed one bit.

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03-13-2012, 11:12 AM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
It wasn't chemistry issues?

How else do you explain that last season and the 4 years before that he was a 45-50 pt guy

How else do you explain that in the 40 games with Montreal he continues to be on pace to be the same player.

Just because a guy didn't work for 2 months in one stop during his NHL career doesn't make him crap... just look at Erik Cole in Edmonton.

Kaberle has been the same player virtually everywhere... an offensively productive defenceman who has defensive issues and needs a steady defensive partner to be effective. This hasn't changed one bit.
Obviously cole is garbage, played terrible for edmonton.

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03-13-2012, 11:15 AM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
It wasn't chemistry issues?

How else do you explain that last season and the 4 years before that he was a 45-50 pt guy

How else do you explain that in the 40 games with Montreal he continues to be on pace to be the same player.
Well for one thing the guy showed up in Carolina overweight and out of shape. That has nothing to do with chemistry unless you want to start talking about the chemistry that goes into Mars bars, soft drinks and pizza pies.
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Just because a guy didn't work for 2 months in one stop during his NHL career doesn't make him crap... just look at Erik Cole in Edmonton.

Kaberle has been the same player virtually everywhere... an offensively productive defenceman who has defensive issues and needs a steady defensive partner to be effective. This hasn't changed one bit.
You're right in one respect, he's been the same player everywhere for the past few years. He was bad in TO, Boston, Carolina and Montreal. He lost a step a long time ago. It's great that he can put up some points and play spot duty on the PP, but he's no longer a good defenseman. Even in his prime he wasn't great defensively but now he's just a huge liability.

He's over the hill and we never shouldv'e picked him up.
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Obviously cole is garbage, played terrible for edmonton.
Obviously you don't want to talk about TK's play on the ice. That's a smart strategy considering how badly he sucks.

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03-13-2012, 11:16 AM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
It wasn't chemistry issues?

How else do you explain that last season and the 4 years before that he was a 45-50 pt guy

Kaberle has been the same player virtually everywhere... an offensively productive defenceman who has defensive issues and needs a steady defensive partner to be effective. This hasn't changed one bit.
How many times in the past seven years has Kaberle's team made the playoffs? He was a passenger on the Bruins, so if you take that one away. How about zero.

Yes, Kaberle has been the same defensively inept player for the past seven years. His defensive 'prowess' has helped to lead his teams exactly nowhere.

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03-13-2012, 11:20 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
When we can no longer afford these luxuries we'll trade kaberle.
About the only team that would take him in a trade is a team where either you or Gauthier is the manager

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03-13-2012, 11:25 AM
  #208
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I never thought of Kaberle as "defensively inept" in his best years with the Leafs. He was kind of a mini-Markov in that he used intelligence and positioning to make himself adequate in his own end... not "good" to the extent that Markov is, but still fine. The difference I find with him now (and as a Bruin) is that he really just doesn't "try" defensively any more. He sits back and watches the puck, fails to put himself out there to try to make defensive plays. He isn't just "tentative", he's more like uninvolved. It ends up making him defensively inept. And of course, being paired with Campoli just kills us because his partner is just going to add to the trouble in general.

I don't see much value in keeping Kaberle. Diaz and Weber can do as much, given similar opportunity. And at a far lower cost.

But probably we are stuck with him, nevertheless. So I would make it a summertime priority to try to sign a really rock-solid defensive defenseman to pair with him. Maybe that would work out.

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03-13-2012, 11:26 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
How many times in the past seven years has Kaberle's team made the playoffs? He was a passenger on the Bruins, so if you take that one away. How about zero.

Yes, Kaberle has been the same defensively inept player for the past seven years. His defensive 'prowess' has helped to leakd his teams exactly nowhere.
Apparently add rick nash to the "cole list of awful players" lol

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03-13-2012, 11:32 AM
  #210
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not sure I understand the premise that because a GM won a Cup it means that they're somehow infallible or even less likely to make an error than other GMs

To err is human . .

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03-13-2012, 12:10 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Apparently add rick nash to the "cole list of awful players" lol
Actually Rick Nash led his awful team to a playoff appearance three years ago. Good try though.
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I never thought of Kaberle as "defensively inept" in his best years with the Leafs. He was kind of a mini-Markov in that he used intelligence and positioning to make himself adequate in his own end... not "good" to the extent that Markov is, but still fine. The difference I find with him now (and as a Bruin) is that he really just doesn't "try" defensively any more. He sits back and watches the puck, fails to put himself out there to try to make defensive plays. He isn't just "tentative", he's more like uninvolved. It ends up making him defensively inept. And of course, being paired with Campoli just kills us because his partner is just going to add to the trouble in general.

I don't see much value in keeping Kaberle. Diaz and Weber can do as much, given similar opportunity. And at a far lower cost.

But probably we are stuck with him, nevertheless. So I would make it a summertime priority to try to sign a really rock-solid defensive defenseman to pair with him. Maybe that would work out.
In his prime years with TO he wasn't great defensively. Simliar to Markov he was competent but not stellar (though I agree Markov was better defensively.) In his later years with TO he sucked.

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03-13-2012, 12:28 PM
  #212
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I hope they get rid of Kaberle, but that's the same problem as with Gomez.
Oh you Jim Rutherford, what trick did you use on Gauthier!

Small hope : the GM voting on the new rules to buyout/let go certain player with heavy contract.

But i doubt that will pass !

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03-13-2012, 12:51 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
How many times in the past seven years has Kaberle's team made the playoffs? He was a passenger on the Bruins, so if you take that one away. How about zero.

Yes, Kaberle has been the same defensively inept player for the past seven years. His defensive 'prowess' has helped to lead his teams exactly nowhere.
Yes the Leafs being a horribly run organization with no goaltending for 7 years, no number 1 centre, and no number 1 defenceman, is all kaberle's fault for not leading them into the playoffs.

Look I'm not saying Kaberle is some superstar who leads a team... he's obviously not.

But you don't get Superstar team leading defencemen in UFA for 4.25 million either.

He is what he is, an offensively productive, limited defensively player, paid at or around what other similar players get paid.

I don't see him as the giant cap albatross that he's been made out to be.

The statements that we need to buy out both Kaberle and Gomez, that Kaberle is untradeable, that Kaberle and Gomez belong in the minors, etc... they are completely and totally ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by izzak View Post
I hope they get rid of Kaberle, but that's the same problem as with Gomez.
Oh you Jim Rutherford, what trick did you use on Gauthier!

Small hope : the GM voting on the new rules to buyout/let go certain player with heavy contract.

But i doubt that will pass !
Here we are

A 7.3 million dollar centre who got 38 pts last year and would be on pace for 24pts over 82 games this year is compared to a
4.25 million dollar defenceman who is on pace for 45 pts since joining the Habs, and is on the same pace he's been on for 5 seasons now.

This is a complete and utter joke.

Nowhere are the two contracts even close to comparable... yet everyday someone makes this comparison.

Never mind the fact we gave up a stud defense prospect in one deal and gave up a player who was worthless in the other.


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03-13-2012, 01:08 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Yes the Leafs being a horribly run organization with no goaltending for 7 years, no number 1 centre, and no number 1 defenceman, is all kaberle's fault for not leading them into the playoffs.

Look I'm not saying Kaberle is some superstar who leads a team... he's obviously not.

But you don't get Superstar team leading defencemen in UFA for 4.25 million either.

He is what he is, an offensively productive, limited defensively player, paid at or around what other similar players get paid.

I don't see him as the giant cap albatross that he's been made out to be.

The statements that we need to buy out both Kaberle and Gomez, that Kaberle is untradeable, that Kaberle and Gomez belong in the minors, etc... they are completely and totally ridiculous.



Here we are

A 7.3 million dollar centre who got 38 pts last year and would be on pace for 24pts over 82 games this year is compared to a
4.25 million dollar defenceman who is on pace for 45 pts since joining the Habs, and is on the same pace he's been on for 5 seasons now.

This is a complete and utter joke.

Nowhere are the two contracts even close to comparable... yet everyday someone makes this comparison.

Never mind the fact we gave up a stud defense prospect in one deal and gave up a player who was worthless in the other.
So if I understand you correctly, you think that Kaberle should be moved to Centre and Gomer tried on D


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03-13-2012, 01:20 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
:

I acknowledged a list of 20 comparables and said he was mid-pack. Yup I guess my entire purpose was to show how he's the best?

This is an incredibly weak criticism here.

I only need to pull out the worse names to prove my point which was that he's mid-pack on the list of 20.

It would only be cherry picking if I tried to claim he was one of the best 4m dmen, which i didn't .



Nearly everyone who criticizes this contract is forgetting the effect of inflation just like those who thought 4.5 was too much for Cole last year.



Erik Cole
James Wisniewski
Dominic Moore
Lars Eller
Raphael Diaz

yup poor pro scouting record :


yes, we will see... in fact we'll get to see it a ton b/c we won't have to miss him in action watching the habs, b/c of astute decisions made by our GM, such as trading for Kaberle to fix our PP




funny how another cup winner did pay him.



Streit was signed 4 years ago under a much lower cap.

Giordano has 1 season over 40 pts

Zidlicky is older than Kaberle, just as bad defensively, is injury prone, and hasnt scored 45 pts in 6 years.

Pitkanen is a clear win but as I said Kaberle is middle of the pack.




: you still don't get it, do you?

I brought up Weber because the biggest complaint continues to be that Kaberle doesn't play enough minutes to justify the salary despite his point production. I bring up the price of top minutes plus offence to show that you pay much more for a truly great player who brings both.

As for MAB, again check his zone starts and quality of competition, hes so insulated its not funny, and not comparable to any other D in the entire league. MAB's D is so bad it isn't funny.





Did you seriously just say a difference of 30% in points is "damn close in every statistical category."

Did you also say Corvo is a solid third pairing guy?



Dont let the +/- of a first place team vs a last place one fool you. He's every bit as bad as Kaberle defensively.





that point about IF kaberle was a first pairing guy like some expect for 4m went so far over your head its not funny.

I'm not saying Kaberle is close to Weber, Im saying if you want a top minute 45 pt guy, you will pay way more than 4.

I'm done with this post, you now go on and on about Weber AGAIN clearly showing lack of anything approaching an understanding of my point.

If you can't get it yet, that 4 million doesnt come close to buying 45 pts + 25 minutes of shutdown d (as some seem to want for that price), you'll never get it.

wrote a reply that seems to have gotten lost... oh well.

bottom line...

Gauthier's track record speaks for itself, and our place in the standings say it louder than any argument I can bring forward.

Chiarelli & Rutherford, 2 cup winners, both quickly realized Kaberle was not worth anywhere close to 4.25M$ once they actually had him play for them.

Gauthier was to dense to figure that out, apparently he's not the only one.


4M$ on most teams = top pairing dman (or at least, dman capable of first pairing minutes/roles)
we have 2 of them currently.

4M$ for a 3rd pairing dman, regarldess of soft points he puts up, is bad decision making, no matter how you try to dress it up or what elite player you try to compare it to.


Zidlicky was traded for 3 players (including decent prospect in Palmieri), a 2nd & a conditional pick. Rutherford tried desperately to get a 2nd for Kaberle, eventually settling for Spacegoat, and was happy with that...

but you keep telling yourself that your smarter than the rest of the league, that your analysis of Kaberle's stat line trumps the painfully obvious reality that he's a marginal 3rd pairing dman who can put up pts on the PP.

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03-13-2012, 01:43 PM
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Zidlicky had value at the trade deadline, when its far easier to trade contracts than it is in November. Far easier to fit them under the cap, far more buyers, etc...

Kaberle's Carolina value was also depressed because he wasn't producing there. He's produced in Montreal which has increased his value.

Classic case of buy low, sell high.... or pretty much the opposite of what happened two years ago with Sergei Kostitsyn, where we couldn't get anything for him at the time, but Nashville could probably trade him now for a good return (if they were inclined to do so, but they aren't).

Just because Kaberle's value sucked when we picked him up, doesn't mean it sucks today, and thats just one more reason why its a good deal.

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03-13-2012, 01:50 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Zidlicky had value at the trade deadline, when its far easier to trade contracts than it is in November. Far easier to fit them under the cap, far more buyers, etc...

Kaberle's Carolina value was also depressed because he wasn't producing there. He's produced in Montreal which has increased his value.

Classic case of buy low, sell high.... or pretty much the opposite of what happened two years ago with Sergei Kostitsyn, where we couldn't get anything for him at the time, but Nashville could probably trade him now for a good return (if they were inclined to do so, but they aren't).

Just because Kaberle's value sucked when we picked him up, doesn't mean it sucks today, and thats just one more reason why its a good deal.
which would only further support the notion that it makes sense to move Kaberle asap...

do you really think some team was willing to part with anything close to the package Zidlicky got at the deadline, and PG turned them down?

or that you would turn down, this summer, Minnesota if they offered you the exact same pieces they acquired in exchange for Kaberle.

Really?


Kaberle for any kind of pick this summer would be great for us, question is wether or not any other GM's around the league are left that would be willing to add 2 more years of a 4.25M$ bottom-pairing dman.

i suspect that, barring a massive increase in the cap (which is being speculated), we're far more likely getting stuck in a cammy/bourque type deal, which doesn't really help us much either.

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03-13-2012, 01:59 PM
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Chiarelli & Rutherford, 2 cup winners, both quickly realized Kaberle was not worth anywhere close to 4.25M$ once they actually had him play for them.

Gauthier was to dense to figure that out, apparently he's not the only one.

4M$ on most teams = top pairing dman (or at least, dman capable of first pairing minutes/roles)
we have 2 of them currently.

4M$ for a 3rd pairing dman, regarldess of soft points he puts up, is bad decision making, no matter how you try to dress it up or what elite player you try to compare it to.
What should be Kaberle Cap hit ?

Of course he is overpaid for a 3rd pairing defenseman.

2 million cap hit, would you say Kaberle is a good asset ?

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03-13-2012, 02:03 PM
  #219
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I looked at the top 50 cap hits for defencemen in the NHL

The following are NOT on the top pairing of their team.

8. Redden, Wade D NYR 34 6 $6,500,000 - AHLer
9. Timonen, Kimmo D PHI 36 6 $6,333,333 - 4th in ice time per game, 3rd without counting Pronger
13. Visnovsky, Lubomir D ANA 35 5 $5,600,000 - 3rd in ice time per game.
15. Gonchar, Sergei D OTT 37 3 $5,500,000 - 3rd in ice time per game
17. Green, Mike D WAS 26 4 $5,250,000 - 4th in ice time per game.
20. Rozsival, Michal D PHO 33 4 $5,000,000 - 5th in ice time per game
24. Hainsey, Ron D WIN 30 5 $4,500,000 - 4th in ice time per game
25. Komisarek, Mike D TOR 30 5 $4,500,000 - 5th in ice time per game, regular healthy scratch
26. Hamhuis, Dan D VAN 29 6 $4,500,000 - 3rd in ice tme per game.
28. Johnson, Jack D CLB 25 7 $4,357,143 - 4th in ice time per game.
29. Volchenkov, Anton D NJD 30 6 $4,250,000 - 7th in ice time per game (6th without injuries/trades).
31. Liles, John-Michael D TOR 31 4 $4,200,000 - 3rd in ice time per game
32. Ballard, Keith D VAN 29 6 $4,200,000 - 8th in ice time per game, regular healthy scratch.
33. Jovanovski, Ed D FLA 35 4 $4,125,000 - plays third pairing minutes
35. Regehr, Robyn D BUF 31 5 $4,020,000 - 6th in ice time per game.
38. Whitney, Ryan D EDM 29 6 $4,000,000 - 3rd in ice time per game
39. Meszaros, Andrej D PHI 26 6 $4,000,000 - 5th in ice time per game.
40. Zidlicky, Marek D NJD 35 3 $4,000,000 - 3rd in ice time per game.
41. Michalek, Zbynek D PIT 29 5 $4,000,000 - 4th in ice time per game
43. Staal, Marc D NYR 25 5 $3,975,000 - 4th in ice time per game.
45. Kubina, Pavel D PHI 34 2 $3,850,000 - 6th in ice time per game.
47. Spacek, Jaroslav D CAR 38 3 $3,833,333 - 7th in ice time per game.
49. Stuart, Brad D DET 32 4 $3,750,000 - 5th in ice time per game.

So 11 of the top 50 paid defenceman paid defencemen on their third pair or lower. (12 including Kaberle)
And 23 players of the top 50 paid defencemen don't play on their team's top pair.

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03-13-2012, 02:27 PM
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
I looked at the top 50 cap hits for defencemen in the NHL

The following are NOT on the top pairing of their team.

8. Redden, Wade D NYR 34 6 $6,500,000 - AHLer
9. Timonen, Kimmo D PHI 36 6 $6,333,333 - 4th in ice time per game, 3rd without counting Pronger
13. Visnovsky, Lubomir D ANA 35 5 $5,600,000 - 3rd in ice time per game.
15. Gonchar, Sergei D OTT 37 3 $5,500,000 - 3rd in ice time per game
17. Green, Mike D WAS 26 4 $5,250,000 - 4th in ice time per game.
20. Rozsival, Michal D PHO 33 4 $5,000,000 - 5th in ice time per game
24. Hainsey, Ron D WIN 30 5 $4,500,000 - 4th in ice time per game
25. Komisarek, Mike D TOR 30 5 $4,500,000 - 5th in ice time per game, regular healthy scratch
26. Hamhuis, Dan D VAN 29 6 $4,500,000 - 3rd in ice tme per game.
28. Johnson, Jack D CLB 25 7 $4,357,143 - 4th in ice time per game.
29. Volchenkov, Anton D NJD 30 6 $4,250,000 - 7th in ice time per game (6th without injuries/trades).
31. Liles, John-Michael D TOR 31 4 $4,200,000 - 3rd in ice time per game
32. Ballard, Keith D VAN 29 6 $4,200,000 - 8th in ice time per game, regular healthy scratch.
33. Jovanovski, Ed D FLA 35 4 $4,125,000 - plays third pairing minutes
35. Regehr, Robyn D BUF 31 5 $4,020,000 - 6th in ice time per game.
38. Whitney, Ryan D EDM 29 6 $4,000,000 - 3rd in ice time per game
39. Meszaros, Andrej D PHI 26 6 $4,000,000 - 5th in ice time per game.
40. Zidlicky, Marek D NJD 35 3 $4,000,000 - 3rd in ice time per game.
41. Michalek, Zbynek D PIT 29 5 $4,000,000 - 4th in ice time per game
43. Staal, Marc D NYR 25 5 $3,975,000 - 4th in ice time per game.
45. Kubina, Pavel D PHI 34 2 $3,850,000 - 6th in ice time per game.
47. Spacek, Jaroslav D CAR 38 3 $3,833,333 - 7th in ice time per game.
49. Stuart, Brad D DET 32 4 $3,750,000 - 5th in ice time per game.

So 11 of the top 50 paid defenceman paid defencemen on their third pair or lower. (12 including Kaberle)
And 23 players of the top 50 paid defencemen don't play on their team's top pair.
Dude, this is great and all but Kaberle still sucks. None of those players changes this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProMath View Post
What should be Kaberle Cap hit ?

Of course he is overpaid for a 3rd pairing defenseman.

2 million cap hit, would you say Kaberle is a good asset ?
I think he doesn't make most teams unless they're really hard up for a PP specialist. There's just no way this guy should be on the ice anymore in an even strength situation if you want to win. He's a pylon in his own end.

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Old
03-13-2012, 02:30 PM
  #221
Habs 4 Life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
I looked at the top 50 cap hits for defencemen in the NHL

The following are NOT on the top pairing of their team.

8. Redden, Wade D NYR 34 6 $6,500,000 - AHLer
9. Timonen, Kimmo D PHI 36 6 $6,333,333 - 4th in ice time per game, 3rd without counting Pronger
13. Visnovsky, Lubomir D ANA 35 5 $5,600,000 - 3rd in ice time per game.
15. Gonchar, Sergei D OTT 37 3 $5,500,000 - 3rd in ice time per game
17. Green, Mike D WAS 26 4 $5,250,000 - 4th in ice time per game.
20. Rozsival, Michal D PHO 33 4 $5,000,000 - 5th in ice time per game
24. Hainsey, Ron D WIN 30 5 $4,500,000 - 4th in ice time per game
25. Komisarek, Mike D TOR 30 5 $4,500,000 - 5th in ice time per game, regular healthy scratch
26. Hamhuis, Dan D VAN 29 6 $4,500,000 - 3rd in ice tme per game.
28. Johnson, Jack D CLB 25 7 $4,357,143 - 4th in ice time per game.
29. Volchenkov, Anton D NJD 30 6 $4,250,000 - 7th in ice time per game (6th without injuries/trades).
31. Liles, John-Michael D TOR 31 4 $4,200,000 - 3rd in ice time per game
32. Ballard, Keith D VAN 29 6 $4,200,000 - 8th in ice time per game, regular healthy scratch.
33. Jovanovski, Ed D FLA 35 4 $4,125,000 - plays third pairing minutes
35. Regehr, Robyn D BUF 31 5 $4,020,000 - 6th in ice time per game.
38. Whitney, Ryan D EDM 29 6 $4,000,000 - 3rd in ice time per game
39. Meszaros, Andrej D PHI 26 6 $4,000,000 - 5th in ice time per game.
40. Zidlicky, Marek D NJD 35 3 $4,000,000 - 3rd in ice time per game.
41. Michalek, Zbynek D PIT 29 5 $4,000,000 - 4th in ice time per game
43. Staal, Marc D NYR 25 5 $3,975,000 - 4th in ice time per game.
45. Kubina, Pavel D PHI 34 2 $3,850,000 - 6th in ice time per game.
47. Spacek, Jaroslav D CAR 38 3 $3,833,333 - 7th in ice time per game.
49. Stuart, Brad D DET 32 4 $3,750,000 - 5th in ice time per game.

So 11 of the top 50 paid defenceman paid defencemen on their third pair or lower. (12 including Kaberle)
And 23 players of the top 50 paid defencemen don't play on their team's top pair.
So what. Because other teams have made bad moves we need to follow and make one as well?

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Old
03-13-2012, 02:36 PM
  #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I think he doesn't make most teams unless they're really hard up for a PP specialist. There's just no way this guy should be on the ice anymore in an even strength situation if you want to win. He's a pylon in his own end.
Worse, pylons don't pass to the other team.

I'm actually shocked by some of the basic bonehead moves he pulls in our zone, like that perfect pass he sent out front of our net in the Calgary or Edmonton game, forget which. I mean that's like the 1st or 2nd thing you're taught NOT to do in hockey

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03-13-2012, 03:01 PM
  #223
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Kaberle brings more negatives than positives at this point. One of the reasons he get compared to Gomez so much isn't just that they both have bad contracts, it's that both are lazy soft-as-toilet-paper players who show no heart, don't work, don't practice hard and don't bring **** to the team beyond the ability to make a pretty pass. I wouldn't want him back on the roster next year if his salary hit was zero, frankly.

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Old
03-13-2012, 03:22 PM
  #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
So what. Because other teams have made bad moves we need to follow and make one as well?
Post was made in response to this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
4M$ on most teams = top pairing dman (or at least, dman capable of first pairing minutes/roles)

Seeing as how there are 24 guys who aren't 1st pairing guys, and there are 12 on the third pairing, it looks like that quote was pulling things out of his ass.


Kaberle continues to be middle of the road when we look at the 20 closest comparable contracts, which is the very definition of being paid at close to market value.

He's not outrageously overpaid when the cost of a 45+ pt dman with defensive liabilities or the cost of a very good defensive dman with no offense continues to hover in this range.

He's an elite one way player, but poor defensive player and paid as such. (Poor defensively, not catastrophically bad like MAB)

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Old
03-13-2012, 03:26 PM
  #225
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The best part about having Kaberle is that our next GM won't be able to use that cap space on an even worst contract.

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