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The Official 2012 Draft Thread: Part V | "Fizzling for Rissling"

View Poll Results: With the 2nd overall pick, what would you choose?
Center (Grigorenko, Galchenyuk, etc.) 100 58.82%
Defenseman (Murray, Dumba, etc.) 70 41.18%
Voters: 170. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-13-2012, 01:51 PM
  #51
Lacaar
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Last year I justified Hopkins over Larson because I thought if I were drafting 1st overall I want a Franchise defenseman. For me to consider someone to have franchise defence status he better be putting up some great points. I didn't trust Larson to be able to accomplish that.

This year I wonder the same thing about Murray. Can he put up the points?
What's the difference between Murray and Larson?
Larson is Bigger
Murray skates better


I hate the fact defenceman take so long to really make a difference on an NHL team. Even the great Drew Doughty is going through some growing pains.

Does Dumba have a toolbox? (I'm scared of Bagosianitis)
I know he's a little under sized but he's young for his draft year. Can't he still grow a bit?

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03-13-2012, 01:56 PM
  #52
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How do Galchenyuk and Grigorenko compare to recent top 5 centers picked?

Jonathan Huberdau
Ryan Strome
Seguin
Ryan Johansen
Matt Duchene
Brayden Schenn


Is there anyone picked after pick 5 in the last 4 years that's shaping up to be a #1 center or elite #2 type?
Mikael Granlund - looks like he could be

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03-13-2012, 04:43 PM
  #53
nexttothemoon
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
You might want to explain that one.
My summation of them all was more a sarcastic view to show how we've all seen many negatives thrown about for most of the top prospects.

I actually don't mind Reinhart but if you wanted to find negatives and look at things from a pessimistic POV, he's got a lot of pieces of the puzzle... yet he's had performances this year on a good club that have some questioning if he's going to be less than the sum of the parts that's he's displaying.

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03-13-2012, 05:11 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post


He's going to be huge. Built like a brick ****house.
Gotta love this guys intensity (see it on his face) I think after interviews he's going to win people over (especially if aired on Oil Change) the way he plays is what this team needs.

In fact I would say one he makes the Oils roster he solidifies the second line and puts the team in the playoffs easily. He's a heart soul type of player.
There is no gamble landing him, he is injury free you draft him Grigorenko/Yakupov great players but don't win me over with there interviews

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03-13-2012, 05:18 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
Matt Higgins suffered alot of injuries after he was drafted. Stats don't tell all the answers
i saw him play in bridgeport and in hamilton, he had no business being a first round pick ever

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03-13-2012, 05:19 PM
  #56
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If it was my call I would go with Grigorenko that +36 to go with all his goals and assists makes me want to do my Austin Powers impersonation.

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Old
03-13-2012, 05:21 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacaar View Post
How do Galchenyuk and Grigorenko compare to recent top 5 centers picked?

Jonathan Huberdau
Ryan Strome
Seguin
Ryan Johansen
Matt Duchene
Brayden Schenn


Is there anyone picked after pick 5 in the last 4 years that's shaping up to be a #1 center or elite #2 type?
Mikael Granlund - looks like he could be
Not unlikely as good as Seguin or Duchene, but better than the others.

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03-13-2012, 05:47 PM
  #58
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Re: Galchenyuk

Never saw this, seems like RNH's incident. Unlucky and painful.


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03-13-2012, 07:09 PM
  #59
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February's Red Line report for February for comparison. A little late.

1. Nail Yakupov
2. Filip Forsburg
3. Mikhail Grigorenko
4. Matt Dumba
5. Ryan Murray
6. Morgan Rielly (injured)
7. Pontug Aberg
8. Alex Galchenyuk (injured)
9. Griffin Reinhart
10. Sebastian Collberg

Rising

Dane Fox (45)
Mark MacEachern (81)
Teuvo Teravainen (21)
Tanner Richard (46)
Tim Bozon (36)
Matt Murray (90)
Derrick Pouliot (15)
Brady Skjei (29)

Falling

Gianluca Curcuruto (50)
Nick Kerdiles (48)
Raphael Bussieres (65)
Chandler Stephenson (54)
Patrick Sieloff (63)

Red Line bemoans the lack of North American forwards rated highly in this draft. Not a single North American forward in the top 20.

They recognize it is cyclical but interesting nonetheless.

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Old
03-13-2012, 07:10 PM
  #60
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Wow, they're high on Forsberg.

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Old
03-13-2012, 07:15 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Wow, they're high on Forsberg.
I keep saying Forsberg is ridiculously underrated on this board. He is a stud. He is big strong, as young as possible, if he played juniors he would be putting up numbers not that far behind Grigs.

ps, any update on Yakupov? if his injury is seriious, I think he falls from #1. I think the jackets would love to grab a big C to play with Nash.

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03-13-2012, 07:17 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
I keep saying Forsberg is ridiculously underrated on this board. He is a stud. He is big strong, as young as possible, if he played juniors he would be putting up numbers not that far behind Grigs.

ps, any update on Yakupov? if his injury is seriious, I think he falls from #1. I think the jackets would love to grab a big C to play with Nash.
I think Paajarvi has turned a lot of people off of wingers from Sweden. If we had Seguin and RNH I would love to get Forsberg, but we have Hall and I am very happy for that.

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Old
03-13-2012, 07:23 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
I think Paajarvi has turned a lot of people off of wingers from Sweden. If we had Seguin and RNH I would love to get Forsberg, but we have Hall and I am very happy for that.
Well, I would say we have Eberle, as Forsberg is a RW. I am not saying we should pick him. I think we are deep at wing and are going to pick at lowest 3, I really think Murray or Dumba are on the radar. Just saying, Forsberg deserves his rank.

Ps, I do agree though, I think Paajarvi is the reason no one even mentions Forsberg on this board.


Last edited by okgooil: 03-13-2012 at 07:35 PM.
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Old
03-13-2012, 07:29 PM
  #64
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really? wasn't Paajarvi much better than Forsberg in his draft...statswise..?

(yes)

so how does Foppa play his game that makes him so high?

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03-13-2012, 07:33 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
I keep saying Forsberg is ridiculously underrated on this board. He is a stud. He is big strong, as young as possible, if he played juniors he would be putting up numbers not that far behind Grigs.

ps, any update on Yakupov? if his injury is seriious, I think he falls from #1. I think the jackets would love to grab a big C to play with Nash.
Pretty good bruising/cut on his face, but there hasn't been any concussion talk yet.

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03-13-2012, 07:36 PM
  #66
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really? wasn't Paajarvi much better than Forsberg in his draft...statswise..?

(yes)

so how does Foppa play his game that makes him so high?
Well Just cause Paajarvi has disapointed, doesnt' mean Forsberg will. I would say their numbers are some what simliar, but they both also had pretty similar numbers to the Sedin's their draft year.

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03-13-2012, 07:42 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
My summation of them all was more a sarcastic view to show how we've all seen many negatives thrown about for most of the top prospects.

I actually don't mind Reinhart but if you wanted to find negatives and look at things from a pessimistic POV, he's got a lot of pieces of the puzzle... yet he's had performances this year on a good club that have some questioning if he's going to be less than the sum of the parts that's he's displaying.
Fair enough.

Thanks for clarifying.

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03-13-2012, 07:42 PM
  #68
dnicks17
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Well Just cause Paajarvi has disapointed, doesnt' mean Forsberg will. I would say their numbers are some what simliar, but they both also had pretty similar numbers to the Sedin's their draft year.
Keep in mind that Forsberg is playing in the league below the one Paajarvi and the Sedins were drafted out of though.

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03-13-2012, 07:46 PM
  #69
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Keep in mind that Forsberg is playing in the league below the one Paajarvi and the Sedins were drafted out of though.
True, All I can say is that if Forsberg were a few days younger he would not be in the Draft. My guess is next year he will put up better numbers in the SEL than Paajarvi did his draft year. Forsberg could be the #1 pick next year if he was a few days younger I guess is what I am trying to say.

Paajarvi for his stats really fell in the draft, maybe the scouts saw something after all, as he does not seem to be living up to his billing.

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03-13-2012, 07:55 PM
  #70
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True, All I can say is that if Forsberg were a few days younger he would not be in the Draft. My guess is next year he will put up better numbers in the SEL than Paajarvi did his draft year. Forsberg could be the #1 pick next year if he was a few days younger I guess is what I am trying to say.

Paajarvi for his stats really fell in the draft, maybe the scouts saw something after all, as he does not seem to be living up to his billing.
The cut off is Sept. 15, so he's a month a couple days from 2013 eligibility, but I agree with your general point. Being that young should definitely add to his draft stock.

It's tough to really get a read from his point totals too. Leksands is by far the best defensive team in the Allsvenskan. They have 15 less GA than the next best team and almost 50 less than the 10th best team. They're also 5th in GF, but I'm assuming they play a defensive system.

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03-13-2012, 08:02 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
True, All I can say is that if Forsberg were a few days younger he would not be in the Draft. My guess is next year he will put up better numbers in the SEL than Paajarvi did his draft year. Forsberg could be the #1 pick next year if he was a few days younger I guess is what I am trying to say.

Paajarvi for his stats really fell in the draft, maybe the scouts saw something after all, as he does not seem to be living up to his billing.
I don't think he comes close to Mackinnon

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03-13-2012, 08:04 PM
  #72
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I'm still on the "BPA 100% of the time" bandwagon myself.

I'll be starting my annual "take a bunch of time to catch up with the rest of you" researching shortly, then I'll be more comfortable commenting on who should be picked over who.

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03-13-2012, 08:20 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
So there were questions then.

There was lots of discussion about Hopkins not being ready/physically mature, Larsson not being "offensive" enough, and similar questions about the offensive upside of Landeskog's game.

There is no doubt about Yakupov going first overall. Probably the biggest lock for first overall in the last few years.

Most people feel Grigorenko is #2, and after that most people feel it is Murray at #3.
i am agreeing with you

Grigarenko at #2

the player that intrigues me is Samuelson for the oil kings. 1PPG all even points. most Chl players get PP time and get 33% of there points from PP.

Samuelsons 1PPg pace is equal to that of Yakupov, Grigorenko at Even. Might be a steal in the 2nd round.

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03-13-2012, 08:41 PM
  #74
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I think it's obvious that most on the HFBoards here don't see Forsberg as a good fit for the Oilers. The commonly held belief is that the weaknesses on the team are at D (obvious) and the need to add a strong 2nd line C is the other huge need... which is why you have talk of Galchenyuk/Grigorenko vs Dumba/Murray as the only real choices for the Oilers 1st pick.

Of course the default pick is Yakupov if he's still available simply because he's easily the BPA in this draft and you don't pass that type of talent up if he's sitting there.

Assuming they draft #2 or #3 though, the debate is between a Dman or a Centre. Forsberg is probably high on many scouts lists but for the Oilers, we'd have to assume he's probably much further down the list.

I doubt many of us have watched Forsberg play much at all and I've only seen him very, very little myself so you just have to basically trust the scouts that he's a top 5 talent in this draft.

Just from looking at the stats alone... Forsberg is putting up decent but unspectacular numbers in the Allsvenskan league. To me... by comparison Pontus Åberg has put up pretty good numbers in his 1st full year in the Elitserien, yet Åberg is ranked far below Forsberg by most scouts. I have to assume that's because Forsberg is basically a full year younger... that and the scouts obviously see more raw potential in Forsberg as he obviously has a higher ceiling skillwise.

Collberg is another natural comparison to Forsberg. Collberg is about 6 months older than Forsberg and projects to be slightly smaller than Forsberg. Collberg is also playing his 1st full year in the Elitserien and has 0 points in 40+ games... he's generally being ranked in between Forsberg and Åberg but again Collberg is regarded as quite far below Forsberg.

My own viewings (very limited) have me putting Åberg on top but it's pretty hard to assess with such limited views... plus they are obviously playing in different leagues and different playing times/roles etc.

It's interesting that those 3 Swedish wingers are pretty much all there is to high end wingers in this draft (beyond Yakupov obviously). Yet, being in Sweden we really don't have a strong sense of how good they are (unless you are in Sweden and watch them regularly).

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03-13-2012, 08:46 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
True, All I can say is that if Forsberg were a few days younger he would not be in the Draft. My guess is next year he will put up better numbers in the SEL than Paajarvi did his draft year. Forsberg could be the #1 pick next year if he was a few days younger I guess is what I am trying to say.

Paajarvi for his stats really fell in the draft, maybe the scouts saw something after all, as he does not seem to be living up to his billing.
Based on what?

Hopes and dreams?

How much have you seen this kid play?

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