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Old
03-12-2012, 01:05 PM
  #326
bozak911
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
The only thing I can think is that you can find a Nick Schultz type 2nd/3rd pairing defensive guy for fairly cheap, especially if your answer is Stoner. Finding a 2nd pairing offensive/puck mover like Gilbert is tougher.

So instead of having to sign a second tier PMD lik say Matt Carle to a $5-6m deal, you get BNTG for $4m. And then to replace Schultz you sign say Stoner to $800k and let him fight for that 3rd pairing spot in camp with the other 3,000 tweeners (well not literally fight since that didn't work well for him last time).
I can see that... But at the same time, trading both Zanon and Schultz opens up a huge hole in the current roster.

I could see trading Zanon at the deadline and Schultz at the draft, but not both on the same day. Unless, of course, GMCF basically just told the team...

"Hey. Our season is over. Our injuries are insurmountable. I'm going to trade away the two guys that helped keep the puck out of our net. Kthxtank."

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03-12-2012, 01:11 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
I can see that... But at the same time, trading both Zanon and Schultz opens up a huge hole in the current roster.

I could see trading Zanon at the deadline and Schultz at the draft, but not both on the same day. Unless, of course, GMCF basically just told the team...

"Hey. Our season is over. Our injuries are insurmountable. I'm going to trade away the two guys that helped keep the puck out of our net. Kthxtank."
It was definitely a move for next year, not this one.

Zanon for the record was pretty bad almost all year long. Wasn't really doing much to keep the puck out of the net. Again though, next year move. Kampfer looks like a much better player.

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03-12-2012, 01:47 PM
  #328
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So, essentially we're looking next year at:

TBA - Gilbert
Scandella - Spurgeon
Stoner - Kampfer
Prosser/Falk/Foster

Problem with our current roster is that we have 0 1st pairing D-men, aside from maybe BNTG. Another problem is that we lack a competitive left-handed defensive D-man to pair with Gilbert. I mean, Scandella is one but I'd want him to stay with Spurgeon. They compliment each other nicely and they are both young and will develop a good chemistry for the future. They will hopefully be our 2nd pairing in the future that we can rely on once Scandella finds some consistency. I put Stoner in that 3rd pairing simply because I rate him higher than Falk and he is a guy who can defend his team when required. They are left-right as well which is a good thing.

One option would be obviously Falk - Gilbert pairing, but I wouldn't trust Falk with 25min/night. Faulk maybe, but not Falk.

Then we have Prosser. I like his game a lot, but we already have three right-handed, puck-moving/offensive D-men in Gilbert, Spurgeon and Kampfer. Do we put him to the press box, trade him or simply put him in the 3rd line with Kampfer? Choices, choices. I feel a trade coming in the summer, to be honest. Maybe pack Falk/Foster + Prosser + pick/prospect for a 1st pairing D? Something along the lines of... Braydon Coburn, maybe? I'd love to have him in the Wild, sadly we're looking at something along the lines of Falk + Prosser + decent prospect (Larsson?), maybe even a late round pick. But then again, our blueline wouldn't be a laughing stock any more, at least not in a couple of years.

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03-12-2012, 02:11 PM
  #329
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I say we try to get our hands on L. Schenn.

Rights to Hards + decent prospect + 5th 2013 would do it

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03-12-2012, 02:13 PM
  #330
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Add in Brodin and possibly a UFA to that mix.

That doesn't come close, they would want a 1st rounder or blue chipper for Schenn.

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03-12-2012, 02:49 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
I don't think Gilbert has looked bad.

I don't think the Schultz for Gilbert trade was a HUGE mistake.

What I am failing at, though, is grasping the logic behind the trade. For me, the Zanon for Kampfer trade was enough of a move "for the future". Trading away both Schultz and Zanon at the same time for essentially the same sort of pieces leaves me scratching my over sized melon.

It is the combination of the two stay at home defensemen moved out for the two "puck movers" or "offensive" d-men that leaves me confused. Move one, sure... but both?
I think people get hung up on "why did we trade Schultz when we already picked up Kampfer?" But there's two big things to remember before asking that: Fletcher had allegedly been pursuing BNTG since at least the offseason, and the Zanon trade wasn't done when Schultz was traded.

In reality, I think Schultz for Gilbert was the move for the future. Taken by itself, it seems hard to demonize (outside of the leadership void, which could be argued both as a positive or a negative). Sure, people aren't necessarily happy with it taken alone, but everyone has to acknowledge the direction, and the fact that value wasn't too far off.

So if we accept the Schultz deal in and of itself, then evaluate the Zanon deal as "something that happened later," it makes sense. Zanon was an impending UFA, we had too many d-men (Stoner, Spurgeon, Scandella, Gilbert, Prosser, Falk, Foster, Zanon, Lundin makes 9 defensemen, although Lundin was probably done for the year, and Stoner was short term injured), and Zanon didn't fit our plans for the future. Moving him made sense. Houston is fighting for a playoff spot, and is down to Genoway and...well just Genoway for defensemen with anything resembling offensive talent. Kampfer helps Houston now, and slightly fills a void in our prospect pool.

I don't think that Zanon offered any significant upgrade to our NHL defense, outside of his knowledge of "the system" and being a veteran. I think that the deals make a lot of sense when thought through in the order they occurred. The best part is, they give us options next season. I'm going to assume we'll bring in a leftie UFA, and give Brodin a shot. That means we'll have these guys competing:

Left - 3 spots - Scandella, Falk, UFA, Brodin, 1st round pick?
Right - 3 spots - Gilbert, Spurgeon, Prosser, Kampfer, 1st round pick?

That gives us a genuine competition for spots, and gives us options both for shutdown guys and offensive type guys. Say you swap Schultz back in for Gilbert, suddenly we need to pick up an offensive type UFA (which are much harder to find) to play on the right if we want to create some competition for spots and roles.

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03-12-2012, 02:52 PM
  #332
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Jumping on that, PMD are more expensive/valuable than defensive guys and right handed D-men can be harder to find than left. So while short-term it looks dumb that we have all these right-handed offensive guys who don't know the system and look terrible, it could save several million per year in cap hit down the road.

All we need is a big veteran defensive D-man with a left handed shot who can play a bunch of minutes. Wonder who that could be...

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03-12-2012, 02:56 PM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Jumping on that, PMD are more expensive/valuable than defensive guys and right handed D-men can be harder to find than left. So while short-term it looks dumb that we have all these right-handed offensive guys who don't know the system and look terrible, it could save several million per year in cap hit down the road.

All we need is a big veteran defensive D-man with a left handed shot who can play a bunch of minutes. Wonder who that could be...
There's this guy from the Oilers I heard about, awesome defensively, not great offensive, but Nick something. We should trade for him.

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03-12-2012, 03:24 PM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Jumping on that, PMD are more expensive/valuable than defensive guys and right handed D-men can be harder to find than left. So while short-term it looks dumb that we have all these right-handed offensive guys who don't know the system and look terrible, it could save several million per year in cap hit down the road.

All we need is a big veteran defensive D-man with a left handed shot who can play a bunch of minutes. Wonder who that could be...
Unfortunately, with Radulov potentially making an NHL return, it seems like he's likely to be...unavailable.

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03-12-2012, 04:11 PM
  #335
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All we need is a big veteran defensive D-man with a left handed shot who can play a bunch of minutes. Wonder who that could be...
Sami Vatanen

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Old
03-12-2012, 06:06 PM
  #336
roon
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Unfortunately, with Radulov potentially making an NHL return, it seems like he's likely to be...unavailable.
Radulov has been potentially returning to the NHL every year has he not?

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03-12-2012, 11:49 PM
  #337
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Radulov has been potentially returning to the NHL every year has he not?
Nope.

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03-13-2012, 03:33 AM
  #338
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Radulov has been potentially returning to the NHL every year has he not?
I guess he is one of the guys earning the BIG bucks in Ruskiy..

on the other hand? is he free of charge or does he have rights attached to him?

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03-13-2012, 08:40 AM
  #339
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I guess he is one of the guys earning the BIG bucks in Ruskiy..

on the other hand? is he free of charge or does he have rights attached to him?
Radulov is currently under NHL suspension by Nashville. Some years ago, he fled the NHL for the KHL because he was under an Entry Level Contract, which are not exactly high paying. When he left, he had 1 year remaining on his ELC, so he's still under contract with Nashville. With Nashville fielding such a competitive team, and Radulov seemingly having some issues with his KHL team, he's rumored to be making a return during the regular season here (if they can work out his release from Ufa of the KHL) which would burn the remaining year of his ELC, which would allow Nashville both to have him for this season's playoffs as well as resign him to a "real" contract next year (he will be RFA).

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03-13-2012, 08:43 PM
  #340
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I say we try to get our hands on L. Schenn.

Rights to Hards + decent prospect + 5th 2013 would do it
Schenn is way over-rated, and in fact the Toronto brass are getting impatient with his lack of progress.

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