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Last time Habs got 2 30 goal scorers in a season?

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Old
03-13-2012, 03:28 AM
  #26
Cyclones Rock
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Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 03-13-2012 at 05:37 AM. Reason: misread OP
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03-13-2012, 04:03 AM
  #27
HarlemsFinest
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@cyclones

i think he means your own team sacrificing D prowess and coverage for more attack a-la run and gun style of the capitals from 2 years ago. and not that opponents having weak D pad your stats, because you can't chose that and won't face that weak D every night.


to compensate for this apparent padding of stats, all you have to do is then balance that with the GF/GA ratio of the team. if the team has good D and is still scoring like the late capitals, then they are not padding, they are terrifyingly strong.

i suspect you understood his context though, but i don't see why you should disagree even with your explanation. mind you the caps have 'vech when he was on, but i'm sure there are other examples of running and gunning while ignoring D, but as i said IMO the goal ratio becomes telling of the style of play allowing these goals to occur.

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03-13-2012, 04:35 AM
  #28
Cyclones Rock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
On a season to season basis I mean. Having 2 30 goal scorers really doesn't mean much for how well your year did.

And I think you obsess too much over top-scorers. They're really nice to have but they aren't the be all end all on building a team.

Past 10 Stanley Cup Champs

2010-11 Boston: Lucic (30) Horton (26) ** 8th highest scoring team overall-but only 16 goals from #1 team**
2009-10 Chicago: Kane (30) Sharp(25) Toews (25) ***3rd highest scoring team in league overall**
2008-09 Pittsburgh: Malkin (35) Crysby (33)
2007-08 Detroit: Zetterberg (43) Datsyuk (31)
2006-07 Anaheim: Selanne (48) Penner (29)
2005-06 Carolina: Staahl (45) Williams (31) BrindAmour (31)
Cole (30)

2003-04 Tampa: St. Louis (38) LeCavilier (32)
2002-03 New Jersey: Not a real hockey team. Trappers and Gomezes. Ellis (28)
2001-02 Detroit: Shannahan (37) Fedorov (31) Hull (30)
Robataille (30)
2000-01 Colorado: Sakic (54) Hejduk (41)

This thread sparked my curiosity about the importance of multiple 30 goal scorers with respect to Stanley Cup Championships. The last 10 Stanley Cup Champs have had multiple 30 goal scorers 6 times. Anaheim missed having 2 by one goal (Penner-29) and the last two SC Champs have only had one 30 goal scorer. New Jersey and their BS trap team doesn't count

So, other than the past 2 years, it has been absolutely vital to have multiple 30 goal scorers to win a SC. The past two years both teams have been at the top of overall scoring so they've been able to overcome the lack of a second 30 goal scorer by having very balanced scoring on their rosters.

So, I think the evidence is pretty clear that having two high goal scoring players matters. Being able to score lots of goals matters. Always has. Always will.


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 03-13-2012 at 04:50 AM.
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03-13-2012, 04:58 AM
  #29
Cyclones Rock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemsFinest View Post
@cyclones

i think he means your own team sacrificing D prowess and coverage for more attack a-la run and gun style of the capitals from 2 years ago. and not that opponents having weak D pad your stats, because you can't chose that and won't face that weak D every night.


to compensate for this apparent padding of stats, all you have to do is then balance that with the GF/GA ratio of the team. if the team has good D and is still scoring like the late capitals, then they are not padding, they are terrifyingly strong.

i suspect you understood his context though, but i don't see why you should disagree even with your explanation. mind you the caps have 'vech when he was on, but i'm sure there are other examples of running and gunning while ignoring D, but as i said IMO the goal ratio becomes telling of the style of play allowing these goals to occur.
Upon further review, I didn't.

.


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 03-13-2012 at 05:38 AM.
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03-13-2012, 05:01 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clumsyhab View Post
And I think Pleky got stuck at 29 for the last 7-8 games of the season.
Not surprisingly, the Habs had 104 points that season-3rd best in the league.

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03-13-2012, 10:27 AM
  #31
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Kind of unimportant if having two of them still means you can finish dead last.

Obviously there's more to being a good team than that.
Au contraire mon frere. I think it is important. I really do.

Why? Because I think for the first time in a long time we have ourselves a guy who's going to consistently hit the 30 mark. That alone is accomplishment enough for now. I don't think it's going to take another two decades before we see two 30 goal scorers in this lineup and I see this as a very positive thing.

We've obviously got a long way to go, but at least we've finally landed a consistent goal scorer. He may not be a superstar but he addresses something we've really lacked for a long freaking time. I may be getting ahead of myself here but when I look at the number of shots Max puts on net, I think he's probably going to maintain a 30 goal pace for a long time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
What is really sad is that we're finishing last, and have absolutely no direction for the future.
Well, a new GM and a top pick (if it happens) can change all that. I think we're all happy with some of the pieces that we have going forward.

I've been pretty clear since about mid year that I think management needs to be replaced and we've definitely squandered some assets but at least we have stuff to build with. The next GM we pick is crucial though. And so is finishing top 5. If we don't get Grig, Yak or Galchenyuk it's really going to be a wasted year. I'm not the most knowledgable guy when it comes to these prospects but I've heard mixed reviews on Forsberg and I suspect that not landing those top 3 forwards will mean more mediocrity in the future. Maybe I'm wrong but that's what I've heard on Forsberg. Good but not great and not on the same level as those other three.

And we desperately need to draft a forward. Preferably a center.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Past 10 Stanley Cup Champs

2010-11 Boston: Lucic (30) Horton (26) ** 8th highest scoring team overall-but only 16 goals from #1 team**
2009-10 Chicago: Kane (30) Sharp(25) Toews (25) ***3rd highest scoring team in league overall**
2008-09 Pittsburgh: Malkin (35) Crysby (33)
2007-08 Detroit: Zetterberg (43) Datsyuk (31)
2006-07 Anaheim: Selanne (48) Penner (29)
2005-06 Carolina: Staahl (45) Williams (31) BrindAmour (31)
Cole (30)

2003-04 Tampa: St. Louis (38) LeCavilier (32)
2002-03 New Jersey: Not a real hockey team. Trappers and Gomezes. Ellis (28)
2001-02 Detroit: Shannahan (37) Fedorov (31) Hull (30)
Robataille (30)
2000-01 Colorado: Sakic (54) Hejduk (41)

This thread sparked my curiosity about the importance of multiple 30 goal scorers with respect to Stanley Cup Championships. The last 10 Stanley Cup Champs have had multiple 30 goal scorers 6 times. Anaheim missed having 2 by one goal (Penner-29) and the last two SC Champs have only had one 30 goal scorer. New Jersey and their BS trap team doesn't count

So, other than the past 2 years, it has been absolutely vital to have multiple 30 goal scorers to win a SC. The past two years both teams have been at the top of overall scoring so they've been able to overcome the lack of a second 30 goal scorer by having very balanced scoring on their rosters.

So, I think the evidence is pretty clear that having two high goal scoring players matters. Being able to score lots of goals matters. Always has. Always will.
Yes, it matters, nice work on this.

Sure would be nice to start having guys in the top ten in scoring. Can't believe how many Hab fans have never seen this happen. It's embarrassing that we never have elite players or scoring leaders. Folks who say that it's not important really don't know what they're talking about. Top scorers give you a huge leg up. When you don't have them, it makes things a lot harder.

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Old
03-13-2012, 08:49 PM
  #32
AJMHABS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Au contraire mon frere. I think it is important. I really do.

Why? Because I think for the first time in a long time we have ourselves a guy who's going to consistently hit the 30 mark. That alone is accomplishment enough for now. I don't think it's going to take another two decades before we see two 30 goal scorers in this lineup and I see this as a very positive thing.

We've obviously got a long way to go, but at least we've finally landed a consistent goal scorer. He may not be a superstar but he addresses something we've really lacked for a long freaking time. I may be getting ahead of myself here but when I look at the number of shots Max puts on net, I think he's probably going to maintain a 30 goal pace for a long time.

Well, a new GM and a top pick (if it happens) can change all that. I think we're all happy with some of the pieces that we have going forward.

I've been pretty clear since about mid year that I think management needs to be replaced and we've definitely squandered some assets but at least we have stuff to build with. The next GM we pick is crucial though. And so is finishing top 5. If we don't get Grig, Yak or Galchenyuk it's really going to be a wasted year. I'm not the most knowledgable guy when it comes to these prospects but I've heard mixed reviews on Forsberg and I suspect that not landing those top 3 forwards will mean more mediocrity in the future. Maybe I'm wrong but that's what I've heard on Forsberg. Good but not great and not on the same level as those other three.

And we desperately need to draft a forward. Preferably a center.

Yes, it matters, nice work on this.

Sure would be nice to start having guys in the top ten in scoring. Can't believe how many Hab fans have never seen this happen. It's embarrassing that we never have elite players or scoring leaders. Folks who say that it's not important really don't know what they're talking about. Top scorers give you a huge leg up. When you don't have them, it makes things a lot harder.
Even the '92-'93 Stanley Cup Champion Montreal Canadiens had 4 30 goal scorers;

Damphousse(39), Muller(37), Bellows(40), Lebeau(31)

so having 2+ 30 goals does get you far, it isn't the whole picture. I agree that having a few 30+ goals scorers is important for a Cup running team, but only to some extent.

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03-13-2012, 10:05 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJMHABS View Post
Even the '92-'93 Stanley Cup Champion Montreal Canadiens had 4 30 goal scorers;

Damphousse(39), Muller(37), Bellows(40), Lebeau(31)

so having 2+ 30 goals does get you far, it isn't the whole picture. I agree that having a few 30+ goals scorers is important for a Cup running team, but only to some extent.
They also had something like 12 guys over 18 goals.

Depth over frontload.

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03-13-2012, 10:55 PM
  #34
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Here's the numbers of 30 goals scorer in each cup winning teams in the last 20 years. It's just showing differents era.


High scoring years :

1991 Pittsburgh = 3
1992 Pittsburgh = 5
1993 Montreal = 4

Dead Puck Era :

1994 New York = 1
1995 New Jersey = 1 was on pace for 30 and +
1996 Colorado = 4
1997 Detroit = 2
1998 Detroit = 0
1999 Dallas = 2
2000 New Jersey = 1
2001 Colorado = 2
2002 Detroit = 4
2003 New Jersey = 0
2004 Tampas Bay = 2
2005

Anomaly high scoring year :

2006 Carolina = 4

Kind of low scoring era :

2007 Anaheim = 1
2008 Detroit = 2
2009 Pittsburgh = 2

Even lower scoring era :
2010 Chicago = 1
2011 Boston = 1

I would say that right now seeing that there could be only one 50 goals scorer in the NHL once again and also only one 100 pts player, well one 30 goal scorer could be enough this year again.

It just show that there is no formula how to win.

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03-13-2012, 11:07 PM
  #35
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It would be interesting to see how many cup winning teams had a top ten scorer on them. I suspect most would have at least one. It's a harder standard to meet than two 30 goal men but I still think most clubs would have this.

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03-13-2012, 11:28 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It would be interesting to see how many cup winning teams had a top ten scorer on them. I suspect most would have at least one. It's a harder standard to meet than two 30 goal men but I still think most clubs would have this.
Boston and Anaheim we're the only teams i think.

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03-13-2012, 11:39 PM
  #37
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Boston and Anaheim we're the only teams i think.
You can do without a top-10 scorer if you have offensive depth and excellent goaltending and defense.

Boston had Thomas and Chara.
Anaheim had Giguere, Niedermeyer, Pronger, and Beauchemin.

Remember the hoopla in 2006? Spezza-Heatley-Alfredsson was supposedly going to dominate everything... and then Scott Niedermeyer shut them down.

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03-13-2012, 11:43 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You can do without a top-10 scorer if you have offensive depth and excellent goaltending and defense.

Boston had Thomas and Chara.
Anaheim had Giguere, Niedermeyer, Pronger, and Beauchemin.

Remember the hoopla in 2006? Spezza-Heatley-Alfredsson was supposedly going to dominate everything... and then Scott Niedermeyer shut them down.
Yep like I said three or four post above, Depth wins cup.
Just look at Chicago now and then.

Or St-louis now.(Not winning any cup but..)

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03-13-2012, 11:58 PM
  #39
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Who cares how many 30 goal scorers you have, it is depth you want. There is no point in having 2 30 goal scorers if the rest of your team can't put up more than 10. One or two important injuries and your offense dries up like a raisin. I rather be like the Bruins or the Red Wings and have scoring by committee.

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03-14-2012, 12:08 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Boston and Anaheim we're the only teams i think.
Since the mid 90s... Pittsburgh, Carolina, Detroit, Chicago, Colorado, Tampa for sure. Dallas probably. In the 70s and 80s every single cup winning team would have this. Anaheim had Selanne and I'm pretty sure he'd be top ten.

Since the mid 90s anyway NJ and Boston probably the only ones without a top ten scorer in their lineup. Detroit may have had some cup winning seasons without one but they definitely had guys who were top ten at some point on those rosters.

Almost all the cup winners had at least one top ten scorer on there with many clubs having multiple top ten guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Who cares how many 30 goal scorers you have, it is depth you want. There is no point in having 2 30 goal scorers if the rest of your team can't put up more than 10. One or two important injuries and your offense dries up like a raisin. I rather be like the Bruins or the Red Wings and have scoring by committee.
Having more than one 30 goal scorer is an indication of offensive depth. Like I said, now that we have MaxPac I think we'll see this more often.

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Old
03-14-2012, 04:00 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It would be interesting to see how many cup winning teams had a top ten scorer on them. I suspect most would have at least one. It's a harder standard to meet than two 30 goal men but I still think most clubs would have this.
OK. I bit. Here we go. Leading Scorer league rank in parenthesis

2010-11 Boston: Lucic (T-39)
2009-10 Chicago: Kane (9)
2008-09 Pittsburgh: Malkin (1) Crysby (3)
2007-08 Detroit: Zetterberg (6) Datsyuk (4)
2006-07 Anaheim: Selanne (11) one point out of 10th
2005-06 Carolina: Staahl (7)
2003-04 Tampa: St. Louis (1) Stillman (7) Richards (9)
2002-03 New Jersey: Elias (67)
2001-02 Detroit: Shannahan (12) 2 points out of 10th.
2000-01 Colorado: Sakic (2) Forsberg (9)

Result Summary:

6 of last 10 Stanley Cup Champs had at least one Top Ten Scorer
*****3 had two Top Ten Scorers
*****1 had three Top Ten Scorers

2 of the other 4 Stanley Cup Champs had a scorer within 2 points of the Top Ten.

The remaining two SCCs (Boston and New Jersey) weren't even close to having one.

Once again it is highly remarkable to find that scoring is essential to winning

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