HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > San Jose Sharks
Notices

Trade == offense fail

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-14-2012, 02:09 PM
  #1
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 53,544
vCash: 500
Trade == offense fail

KKurzCSN 11:01am via Twitter for iPhone Trading @JamieMcGinn64 to #Avalanche derailed the #Sharks' offense cmcst.sn/aaaK8z

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:17 PM
  #2
Les Wynan*
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,745
vCash: 500
What an idiot.

Les Wynan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:19 PM
  #3
FindingNemo
Registered User
 
FindingNemo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
What an idiot.
Kurz is really terrible isn't he...

FindingNemo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:22 PM
  #4
Brent Burns
Ryane Cloews
 
Brent Burns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Coming in hot
Posts: 6,468
vCash: 500
Wonder how long it took him to put on his clown makeup this morning

Brent Burns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:27 PM
  #5
Squeeven
Registered User
 
Squeeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,464
vCash: 500
I really don't see why you guys think Kurz is an idiot. He's totally right, Moore, Winnik, and Galiardi haven't done jack ****. Enough of this excuse of they're on the 3rd and 4th line and not getting enough minutes, they need to start producing. Hasn't Winnik been playing on the 2nd line the past few days? What has he done there? Nothing. If the Sharks wanna make the playoffs, these three and especially Clowe need to start doing something now. Everyone has to pick it up offensively.

Squeeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:29 PM
  #6
Ninja Hertl
formerly sharkohol
 
Ninja Hertl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Yay
Country: United States
Posts: 4,995
vCash: 500
Hey, Kurz called out colin white, he cool.

Ninja Hertl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:31 PM
  #7
hockeyball
Registered User
 
hockeyball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 16,799
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeeven View Post
I really don't see why you guys think Kurz is an idiot. He's totally right, Moore, Winnik, and Galiardi haven't done jack ****. Enough of this excuse of they're on the 3rd and 4th line and not getting enough minutes, they need to start producing. Hasn't Winnik been playing on the 2nd line the past few days? What has he done there? Nothing. If the Sharks wanna make the playoffs, these three and especially Clowe need to start doing something now. Everyone has to pick it up offensively.
He's stupid because he thinks McGinn is the sole reason why our offense has sucked, which is totally absurd.

The 3 guys we picked up are all better than we've seen them play. Frankly, I think they are struggling with our terrible system just like the rest of the team. If anything, McGinn performing so well in a new system is just further proof of that.

The reason our offense has sucked is because our guys are playing tougher opponents and have no faith in themselves or the system.

hockeyball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:31 PM
  #8
Dusk Soldier
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,225
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeeven View Post
I really don't see why you guys think Kurz is an idiot. He's totally right, Moore, Winnik, and Galiardi haven't done jack ****. Enough of this excuse of they're on the 3rd and 4th line and not getting enough minutes, they need to start producing. Hasn't Winnik been playing on the 2nd line the past few days? What has he done there? Nothing. If the Sharks wanna make the playoffs, these three and especially Clowe need to start doing something now. Everyone has to pick it up offensively.
Take your logic and reason somewhere else. This thread is for bashing Kurz!

Dusk Soldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:33 PM
  #9
Barrie22
Shark fan in hiding
 
Barrie22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,486
vCash: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeeven View Post
I really don't see why you guys think Kurz is an idiot. He's totally right, Moore, Winnik, and Galiardi haven't done jack ****. Enough of this excuse of they're on the 3rd and 4th line and not getting enough minutes, they need to start producing. Hasn't Winnik been playing on the 2nd line the past few days? What has he done there? Nothing. If the Sharks wanna make the playoffs, these three and especially Clowe need to start doing something now. Everyone has to pick it up offensively.
the fact that in the past 20 games the only ones to do anything has been thornton (23 points in 20 games), marleau (16 points), mitchell (sadly), and couture (16 points in 18 games).

and most of couture's points has come from playing with thornton or marleau.

Barrie22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:34 PM
  #10
Gene Parmesan
Ball-So-Hard-U
 
Gene Parmesan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 25,977
vCash: 500
Kevin Kurz must post here.

Gene Parmesan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:34 PM
  #11
KpopandHockey
HFBoards Sponsor
 
KpopandHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 8,291
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeeven View Post
I really don't see why you guys think Kurz is an idiot. He's totally right, Moore, Winnik, and Galiardi haven't done jack ****. Enough of this excuse of they're on the 3rd and 4th line and not getting enough minutes, they need to start producing. Hasn't Winnik been playing on the 2nd line the past few days? What has he done there? Nothing. If the Sharks wanna make the playoffs, these three and especially Clowe need to start doing something now. Everyone has to pick it up offensively.
Yes, losing McGinn is the sole reason we went from averaging 3 goals a game to 1...

KpopandHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:36 PM
  #12
Les Wynan*
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeeven View Post
I really don't see why you guys think Kurz is an idiot. He's totally right, Moore, Winnik, and Galiardi haven't done jack ****. Enough of this excuse of they're on the 3rd and 4th line and not getting enough minutes, they need to start producing. Hasn't Winnik been playing on the 2nd line the past few days? What has he done there? Nothing. If the Sharks wanna make the playoffs, these three and especially Clowe need to start doing something now. Everyone has to pick it up offensively.
So just because a player isn't scoring he isn't doing anything? Winnik and Moore were used as a shutdown line for several games and were really successful at it. Galiardi hasn't played nearly enough for anyone to pass judgment on his contributions.

McGinn scored some goals on the back of an unsustainable shooting percentage and power play time. He and Handzus were terrible at possession and you can see how well Mitchell has done since those two dead weights were removed. I'm happy for Jamie that he's scored some goals for Colorado but he's seen substantially more ice time with the Avs and is playing with a much better center in Stastny. He's also shooting something like 23% - his performance is a mirage. Allowing a seven-game sample size to color his view of McGinn (while using equally small samples to incriminate Winnik and Galiardi) is what makes Kurz an idiot, along with basically everything else that's come out of his mouth this season. For all his "insider" knowledge he appears to also be incapable of actually understanding what he's seeing when watching a player or he wouldn't be lauding McGinn for his contributions in teal.

Les Wynan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:37 PM
  #13
Ninja Hertl
formerly sharkohol
 
Ninja Hertl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Yay
Country: United States
Posts: 4,995
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
He's stupid because he thinks McGinn is the sole reason why our offense has sucked, which is totally absurd.

The 3 guys we picked up are all better than we've seen them play. Frankly, I think they are struggling with our terrible system just like the rest of the team. If anything, McGinn performing so well in a new system is just further proof of that.

The reason our offense has sucked is because our guys are playing tougher opponents and have no faith in themselves or the system.
Are they "struggling with the terrible system" or just adapting to a wildly different system than they used to play in?

Aren't colorado and TB's systems quite different?

Ninja Hertl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:41 PM
  #14
SJeasy
Registered User
 
SJeasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 11,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
So just because a player isn't scoring he isn't doing anything? Winnik and Moore were used as a shutdown line for several games and were really successful at it. Galiardi hasn't played nearly enough for anyone to pass judgment on his contributions.

McGinn scored some goals on the back of an unsustainable shooting percentage and power play time. He and Handzus were terrible at possession and you can see how well Mitchell has done since those two dead weights were removed. I'm happy for Jamie that he's scored some goals for Colorado but he's seen substantially more ice time with the Avs and is playing with a much better center in Stastny. He's also shooting something like 23% - his performance is a mirage. Allowing a seven-game sample size to color his view of McGinn (while using equally small samples to incriminate Winnik and Galiardi) is what makes Kurz an idiot, along with basically everything else that's come out of his mouth this season. For all his "insider" knowledge he appears to also be incapable of actually understanding what he's seeing when watching a player or he wouldn't be lauding McGinn for his contributions in teal.
I would be careful with the defense of Winnik. I have seen plays, more than last night, where his defense was less than stellar. It's beginning to stand out. It is a small sample, but there is no way he should be playing on the second line. He might work with Moore, but . . . this is admittedly a small sample. The hypothesis would be that he doesn't mesh well with more offensively gifted players and is more suited to a checking line role.

I have also noticed that TM is absolutely trying to match Marleau's line to highest qualcomp even though the Sharks are on the road. This has been since Couture was promoted.

SJeasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:42 PM
  #15
5H4RK5
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,569
vCash: 500
The McGinn thing is a joke on HFboards Sharks message board, this guy took it literally.
McGinn is a shooter so his puck control is unnessary, you need to move playmakers to feed him. We should have a passer on every line and a shooter and possible grinder or PWF to round it out. DW's bottom 6 is an interesting mix I would say. All the cup teams score a ton of goals from the bottom 6. Unless Marleau, Thornton, Couture and Boyle keep hot for the remaining games. We aren't that tough to shut out. I would leave DW in charge of big trades and everything else to someone else.

5H4RK5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:42 PM
  #16
Les Wynan*
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KpopandHockey View Post
Yes, losing McGinn is the sole reason we went from averaging 3 goals a game to 1...
I know right?

It's always hilarious to see the media scramble to fabricate whatever narrative they can to explain a slump. The Bruins are in free-fall because Thomas hates Obama, Bryzgalov is stopping everything in sight because he woke up one morning and decided to feel confident again, Washington can't win because Boudreau "lost the room"...but of all the ridiculous narratives I've read this season I think "the Sharks are going to miss the playoffs because they traded a third liner who scored one goal last season" might just take the cake.

Les Wynan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:43 PM
  #17
SharksFan1
Registered User
 
SharksFan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Orange County, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,756
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
the fact that in the past 20 games the only ones to do anything has been thornton (23 points in 20 games), marleau (16 points), mitchell (sadly), and couture (16 points in 18 games).

and most of couture's points has come from playing with thornton or marleau.
That is exactly our problem. We only have 3 of out top 6 producing. I realize that we only have 5 of our top 6 playing, but that still is not enough output from our top 6.

We are now completely overloaded on the bottom 6 and only have 5 top 6 forwards. Unless Moore and Winnik can figure out how to score, I'm not a big fan of the trades this season. Our scoring has struggled most of this season and they have not help out in that department.

I really hope that things will take a turn for the best when Havlat returns.

SharksFan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:45 PM
  #18
Les Wynan*
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
I would be careful with the defense of Winnik. I have seen plays, more than last night, where his defense was less than stellar. It's beginning to stand out. It is a small sample, but there is no way he should be playing on the second line. He might work with Moore, but . . . this is admittedly a small sample. The hypothesis would be that he doesn't mesh well with more offensively gifted players and is more suited to a checking line role.

I have also noticed that TM is absolutely trying to match Marleau's line to highest qualcomp even though the Sharks are on the road. This has been since Couture was promoted.
I agree that Winnik didn't look good in the Alberta games but he has two seasons of extremely strong defensive play to fall back on - it's more or less a given he'll rebound. Meanwhile, McGinn is not going to shoot over 20% the rest of the year.

Renney pretty much ignored matchups for that entire Oilers game. No idea what he was thinking letting RNH go up against Marleau's line continually. I think he even had RNH take a few defensive zone draws - it was bizarre.

EDIT: I take that back, not so bizarre when you consider they have a lot more to gain by losing than winning here on out.

Les Wynan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:51 PM
  #19
Squeeven
Registered User
 
Squeeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,464
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KpopandHockey View Post
Yes, losing McGinn is the sole reason we went from averaging 3 goals a game to 1...
I'm not saying that but he's not wrong to point out that Winnik, Moore and Galiardi haven't done anything offensively.

Squeeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:51 PM
  #20
Wedontneedroads
Registered User
 
Wedontneedroads's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 2,796
vCash: 853
Aparently McGinn was the catalyst for our offense?

Wingels is almost a carbon copy of McGinn, so once he is back in the lineup all will be well.

Thanks for the heads up Kurz.

Wedontneedroads is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:53 PM
  #21
Les Wynan*
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by irbelikewall View Post
Aparently McGinn was the catalyst for our offense?

Wingels is almost a carbon copy of McGinn, so once he is back in the lineup all will be well.

Thanks for the heads up Kurz.
Another good point - although IMO Wingels is much better than McGinn even if the pucks haven't really gone in yet. He's already a much more complete player than Ginner.

Les Wynan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:54 PM
  #22
SJeasy
Registered User
 
SJeasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 11,817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SharksFan1 View Post
That is exactly our problem. We only have 3 of out top 6 producing. I realize that we only have 5 of our top 6 playing, but that still is not enough output from our top 6.

We are now completely overloaded on the bottom 6 and only have 5 top 6 forwards. Unless Moore and Winnik can figure out how to score, I'm not a big fan of the trades this season. Our scoring has struggled most of this season and they have not help out in that department.

I really hope that things will take a turn for the best when Havlat returns.
An average third line produces 45 goals a season. The Sharks haven't had a third line on par with 45 since JT arrived. Wellwood/Pavs/Mitchell would have done it if they were kept together for a full year. It amounts to a goal every other game. It is also noteworthy that the Sharks blueline, despite Burns and Boyle, is far, far behind other offensively talented bluelines (I think it is system more than players).

SJeasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:54 PM
  #23
Arrch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NorCal
Country: United States
Posts: 4,133
vCash: 3095
Correlation != Causation

Edit: Wingels has a much better Corsi than McGinn while facing harder competition.


Last edited by Arrch: 03-14-2012 at 03:01 PM.
Arrch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:54 PM
  #24
Barrie22
Shark fan in hiding
 
Barrie22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,486
vCash: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
I agree that Winnik didn't look good in the Alberta games but he has two seasons of extremely strong defensive play to fall back on - it's more or less a given he'll rebound. Meanwhile, McGinn is not going to shoot over 20% the rest of the year.

Renney pretty much ignored matchups for that entire Oilers game. No idea what he was thinking letting RNH go up against Marleau's line continually. I think he even had RNH take a few defensive zone draws - it was bizarre.

EDIT: I take that back, not so bizarre when you consider they have a lot more to gain by losing than winning here on out.
i was going to say when i first read this, it doesn't matter right now where he uses his players. it is actually a smart move by renney, get his younger players molded into the players that win in this league early.

he is turning purely offenisve players into two way forwards early in there careers, so when the oilers do get better (which will be very soon), the young guns will be all good two way players.

Barrie22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 02:57 PM
  #25
Les Wynan*
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
i was going to say when i first read this, it doesn't matter right now where he uses his players. it is actually a smart move by renney, get his younger players molded into the players that win in this league early.

he is turning purely offenisve players into two way forwards early in there careers, so when the oilers do get better (which will be very soon), the young guns will be all good two way players.
I'm not as optimistic about the Oil's chances in the future as most but I think a smart move next season, especially if they aren't really expecting to make the playoffs, will be to throw the kids to the wolves - play them power against power with an equal distribution of offensive and defensive zone starts. If they survive, then great - you've got legit superstars on your hands. If they flounder, great - you don't have to pay them what you may have to if Renney continues giving them the Sedin treatment.

I think Eberle has a mediocre season next year no matter what - his shooting percentage and on-ice shooting percentage are both ridiculous. But you could easily see something like a 45-50 point season from him if you play him against tough competition as well.

Les Wynan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:55 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.