HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > San Jose Sharks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Trade == offense fail

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-14-2012, 03:06 PM
  #26
hockeyball
Registered User
 
hockeyball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 18,480
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
I'm not as optimistic about the Oil's chances in the future as most but I think a smart move next season, especially if they aren't really expecting to make the playoffs, will be to throw the kids to the wolves - play them power against power with an equal distribution of offensive and defensive zone starts. If they survive, then great - you've got legit superstars on your hands. If they flounder, great - you don't have to pay them what you may have to if Renney continues giving them the Sedin treatment.

I think Eberle has a mediocre season next year no matter what - his shooting percentage and on-ice shooting percentage are both ridiculous. But you could easily see something like a 45-50 point season from him if you play him against tough competition as well.
I would think you would generally see a higher shooting percentage from a player who gets (based on his speed) a significant amount of breakaways and often scores with extremely impressive and creative puck handling.

hockeyball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 03:12 PM
  #27
bigwillie
Registered User
 
bigwillie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 6,115
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to bigwillie
Honestly, how can I get Kurz's job?

I say this with all due respect to Mr. Kurz, who's probably a nice guy in real life. But:

1. He's supposedly an insider but has no real insider connections.
2. He's supposedly a hockey analyst but his analysis is borderline embarassing.
3. He's supposedly an on-air personality but he's not interesting in the slightest.

I can pretend to do all of this things as well or better than him. And I would venture so far to say I'm a snappier dresser and I have a sweet mustache.

I'll take that job, please.

bigwillie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 03:13 PM
  #28
Les Wynan*
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I would think you would generally see a higher shooting percentage from a player who gets (based on his speed) a significant amount of breakaways and often scores with extremely impressive and creative puck handling.
Absolutely. Eberle has a ton of skill and I'm not suggesting he's going to become a 7% shooter next season or anything but the best case scenario is probably around 13% which in itself is reasonably high. Assuming his shot rate remains stable, that's about 26 goals over 82 games. Which is still great but is that worth the ~$5.5mil/yr they'll likely have to pay him especially if it's done playing soft minutes?

IMO it makes sense for them to use him in tough situations which will either kill his counting stats or allow him to prove he really is worth that kind of money.

Les Wynan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 03:16 PM
  #29
wtfisthis
Registered User
 
wtfisthis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 2,838
vCash: 500
When are they gonna cut the ******** and call out McClellan, his assistants, and their failure of a system?

wtfisthis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 03:20 PM
  #30
HOOCH2173
That HOOCH is Crazy!
 
HOOCH2173's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fullerton
Country: United States
Posts: 4,776
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwillie View Post
Honestly, how can I get Kurz's job?

I say this with all due respect to Mr. Kurz, who's probably a nice guy in real life. But:

1. He's supposedly an insider but has no real insider connections.
2. He's supposedly a hockey analyst but his analysis is borderline embarassing.
3. He's supposedly an on-air personality but he's not interesting in the slightest.

I can pretend to do all of this things as well or better than him. And I would venture so far to say I'm a snappier dresser and I have a sweet mustache.

I'll take that job, please.
When visiting Phoenix this past weekend. A few us were outside the hotel awaiting for players to cross over to the arena. We were waiting there getting sigs and a couple of photos. A few players came out and graced us with the requests. Even Drew and Randy walked in our direction.

Then here comes Kurz and he totally walks farther away from all of us to the parking lot and is on or pretending to be on the phone as if he was to good for us! (I was like what Selfish SNOB! granted I'm probably the only one who recognized who he was!)



I keep thinking they are training him to be brodie's jr. and eventually brodie's replacement. since I get the feeling that Brodie is moving onto bigger things.

HOOCH2173 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 03:23 PM
  #31
Wedontneedroads
Registered User
 
Wedontneedroads's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 2,945
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
Another good point - although IMO Wingels is much better than McGinn even if the pucks haven't really gone in yet. He's already a much more complete player than Ginner.
I agree Wingels looks like the better all around player. Wingels and Winchester were the two lower end guys that impressed me the most when I went to the Sharks pre-season practices, and have continued to impress me all season.

Wedontneedroads is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 03:23 PM
  #32
StreetSharks
#19 Joe Trollton
 
StreetSharks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Frisco
Posts: 5,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfisthis View Post
When are they gonna cut the ******** and call out McClellan, his assistants, and their failure of a system?
Whenever Greiss becomes the starting goaltender.

StreetSharks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 03:43 PM
  #33
Lebanezer
Registered User
 
Lebanezer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New York
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 2,897
vCash: 500
I don't think Kurz likes hockey. I think he got the job, most likely through a connection or nepotism of some kind, and just does a half-assed job. None of his analysis or information is in depth and none of his articles are well thought out. You'd think that since he travels with the team he'd be a little bit more involved and know the players well. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he just hates his job.

Lebanezer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 03:47 PM
  #34
OrrNumber4
Registered User
 
OrrNumber4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 7,491
vCash: 500
Wingels and Mcginn are a little different...Mcginn has better wheels, has maybe a stone on Wingels, and has a better shot (Wingels has a hard shot, but Mcginn is better in in-situations).

Also, Wingels has shown a physical streak, but the guy is probably under 6'0; usually players that size can't maintain too much physicality as it wears them down. They end up being "chippy" players, not true grinders. Mcginn had a better frame in that sense.

And, as we have seen with many young players, I wonder how Wingels will perform when his job becomes more secure.

OrrNumber4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 03:48 PM
  #35
5H4RK5
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
An average third line produces 45 goals a season. The Sharks haven't had a third line on par with 45 since JT arrived. Wellwood/Pavs/Mitchell would have done it if they were kept together for a full year. It amounts to a goal every other game. It is also noteworthy that the Sharks blueline, despite Burns and Boyle, is far, far behind other offensively talented bluelines (I think it is system more than players).
I want a cup compliant 3rd and 4th line. Study the cup teams recent output and match or outdue there production. Anything else is a fail by our GM. 3 years to build a 3-4th line, you have to be kidding me, it could be longer.

5H4RK5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 03:48 PM
  #36
Tomahawk214
i'm not even mad
 
Tomahawk214's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Davis, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,162
vCash: 500
If McGinn was the piece holding us together, we have bigger problems to worry about...

Tomahawk214 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 04:12 PM
  #37
Mules
Ouch!
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,072
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
I would be careful with the defense of Winnik. I have seen plays, more than last night, where his defense was less than stellar. It's beginning to stand out. It is a small sample, but there is no way he should be playing on the second line. He might work with Moore, but . . . this is admittedly a small sample. The hypothesis would be that he doesn't mesh well with more offensively gifted players and is more suited to a checking line role.

I have also noticed that TM is absolutely trying to match Marleau's line to highest qualcomp even though the Sharks are on the road. This has been since Couture was promoted.
At the beginning of the season, Winnik was placed in the second line ( sometimes with the highest TOI)... and Avs fans were bashing him and Sacco mercilessly. He is not made for 1st or 2nd line.

Mules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 04:21 PM
  #38
SJeasy
Registered User
 
SJeasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 12,538
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mules View Post
At the beginning of the season, Winnik was placed in the second line ( sometimes with the highest TOI)... and Avs fans were bashing him and Sacco mercilessly. He is not made for 1st or 2nd line.
I understand. The promotion in theory should have strengthened the defensive side of the line. In reality, it didn't. What was worse is that the third part of the line (Clowe) is a defensive blackhole.

SJeasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 04:25 PM
  #39
Barrie22
Shark fan in hiding
 
Barrie22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,819
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
I understand. The promotion in theory should have strengthened the defensive side of the line. In reality, it didn't. What was worse is that the third part of the line (Clowe) is a defensive blackhole.
and an offensive one to this season.

Barrie22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 04:25 PM
  #40
hockeyball
Registered User
 
hockeyball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 18,480
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
I understand. The promotion in theory should have strengthened the defensive side of the line. In reality, it didn't. What was worse is that the third part of the line (Clowe) is a defensive blackhole.
Right now the only players with enough offensive upside to even fill in on the 2nd line are Moore (and he's certainly not shown it yet) or Galiardi (and obviously not at at the moment).

What we SHOULD have done was traded for Downie, like I said, he's been awesome for the Avs, and isn't a rental. I don't mind Galiardi and Winnik, but Winnik - Mitchell - Downie would have better.

hockeyball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 04:30 PM
  #41
Les Wynan*
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5H4RK5 View Post
I want a cup compliant 3rd and 4th line. Study the cup teams recent output and match or outdue there production. Anything else is a fail by our GM. 3 years to build a 3-4th line, you have to be kidding me, it could be longer.
The Sharks have had a phenomenal third line the last two seasons. It was a joke for much of this year but IMO the deadline additions improved it a lot even if that hasn't showed up on the scoreboard.

Les Wynan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 04:32 PM
  #42
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 36,566
vCash: 500
Love the Sauce Boss but the offense was failing before he was dealt. It's funny that it's the eight games as the arbitrary cut-off point because the seventh and eighth games prior to the McGinn trade were the games in Tampa and Washington where they scored 5 in each game. After those two games, the Sharks scored three goals twice and two goals four times before his departure. While 14 goals in six games is still a pace that is better than what we're currently on, it also wasn't good enough to win games either as they went 1-5 in that time.

The two trades are good trades but the personnel needs to be used properly. Winnik isn't a 2nd liner. He's a shutdown player. Winnik-Moore-Mitchell is a solid shutdown line with enough talent to put up some goals now and then...right now it's Mitchell doing most of that work. The offense has dried up because the top six simply isn't clicking. Havlat is hurt so they have to put someone in a scoring role that doesn't belong there. Clowe is terrible. Pavs is not getting any breaks. Thornton doesn't shoot. Marleau is inconsistent from game to game like he always is. Couture was and is in a bit of a slump at even strength.

When Havlat gets back, and if he stays in the lineup, things will sort itself out on both ends of the ice. Getting the guys we did was done so that they can take some of the defensive burden off of the top players and they're starting to do that.

Pinkfloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 04:32 PM
  #43
SJeasy
Registered User
 
SJeasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 12,538
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
and an offensive one to this season.
I agree. I will temper what I said in that I do see effort on the neut. zone backcheck and shotblocking, but his speed pretty much limits him.

On offense, his strength used to be shielding and then pulling the puck off the boards and finding the open guy. What I am seeing a lot is the shielding but a too frequent bobbling of the puck or trying too hard to get it perfectly on his stick before moving. It may be defenses catching on to his game or a slowing of his process. Whatever it is, he is killing his linemates with his game. Both Marleau and Couture have to swoop in and scoop his puck to keep the line going.

SJeasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 04:39 PM
  #44
TheSandman
Registered User
 
TheSandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 1,184
vCash: 500
Man, that was inside.

Way, WAY inside.

TheSandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 04:42 PM
  #45
Karl with a C
RIP Локомотив
 
Karl with a C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: San Jose, CA
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 15,814
vCash: 990
Not a fan of Kurz. I followed him on Twitter when he joined the Sharks, but unfollowed shortly after I realized what he was. Meh. He'll be gone soon to toil away with John Shrader somewhere.

Karl with a C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 04:57 PM
  #46
magic school bus
***********
 
magic school bus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,593
vCash: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5H4RK5 View Post
I want a cup compliant 3rd and 4th line. Study the cup teams recent output and match or outdue there production. Anything else is a fail by our GM. 3 years to build a 3-4th line, you have to be kidding me, it could be longer.
Amen, brotha.

magic school bus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 05:30 PM
  #47
RainbowDash
20% Cooler
 
RainbowDash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Equestria
Posts: 2,081
vCash: 500
Heres a picture of him


RainbowDash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 06:04 PM
  #48
19sharks19
Registered User
 
19sharks19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: T.O. to S.J. & back
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,019
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Right now the only players with enough offensive upside to even fill in on the 2nd line are Moore (and he's certainly not shown it yet) or Galiardi (and obviously not at at the moment).

What we SHOULD have done was traded for Downie, like I said, he's been awesome for the Avs, and isn't a rental. I don't mind Galiardi and Winnik, but Winnik - Mitchell - Downie would have better.
Downie or Malone. Especially for the pick given for Moore. More justifiable for the two afformentioned.

19sharks19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 06:11 PM
  #49
VP and GM
Ack! Thbbft!
 
VP and GM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: at home
Country: United States
Posts: 5,669
vCash: 500
come on, the team is playing like ****, so the new guys are playing like **** also. If the team was undefeated during this time since these deals you'd all be saying how we ripped off our trade partners in these deals. None of these guys are expected to be big offensive's producers anyway, it's the top 6 that's letting us down.

VP and GM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2012, 07:42 PM
  #50
Nighthock
**** the Kings...
 
Nighthock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Country: United States
Posts: 16,061
vCash: 500
so who is he a relative of to have this worthless position?

Nighthock is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:37 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.