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Leafs are a disaster

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Old
03-15-2012, 10:29 AM
  #51
LeafsFan2342
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
There is a substantial gap between the cap floor and cap ceiling.
15 million extra dollars. That's Substantial! The ceiling is almost 30% higher than the basement.
Imagine you just got a 30% raise at your job.
You would be on cloud 9.
You wouldn't just pass it off and say "Well, that's hardly any difference at all".

Burke has a dramatic advantage over the competition. It includes the extra 15 million pay roll, millions on the front office, millions on the scouting department, being able to bury contracts, being able to dramatically front load contracts if need to, the list goes on and on and on and on.

Face it.. the guy is just ****ing up. It really is that simple.
Every single team gets the chance to spend up to the cap ceiling. Burke doesnt have any monetary advantage over any team. Some teams just choose not to spend that high. Burke chose this too.

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03-15-2012, 10:31 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by LeafsFan2342 View Post
Every single team gets the chance to spend up to the cap ceiling. Burke doesnt have any monetary advantage over any team. Some teams just choose not to spend that high. Burke chose this too.
Many teams have budgets that are below the cap. It's not a simple choice for a GM. They can spend what their ownership has made available. Saying that all GMs have the same budget options is simply wrong.

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03-15-2012, 10:34 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Budsfan View Post
Highest paid front office.... We have more money to use than most teams and the only way to use it, is by getting the best minds in the NHL, we are restricted by the cap to get players and we can afford to use our money in this way.
i think that is exactly his point. all this money on the "best minds in the nhl", and this is the best they can produce for us?

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Tim Connolly..... NYR got Brad Richards, mostly because he wanted to go there and secondly they gave him an outrageous contract, Connolly as we all know is a stop-gap center and hasn't worked out here but he was only signed for 2 years and his contract is finished after next season.
a stop-gap centre. when does the gap stop? when do we get our real centre? who or what are we waiting for?

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Komisarek, Armstrong, Schenn, Liles And Beauchemin over paid.... All these Players, have been useful role players and Beauchemin's trade netted us Gardiner and Lupul, over paid they may be but the going rate in the league and certainly because of the system used, namely the run and gun, they were not used too effectively but with a more defensive system they may become important now and in the future.
are they all over paid, or are they paid the going rate? it can't be both.

and if the system is to blame for their failures, shouldn't that have been thought of before signing them? they haven't been any better since carlyle took over.

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03-15-2012, 10:36 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
Simmons is dead on. He's always dead on and Leaf Nation hate him. But really they hate the results and end up blaming the messenger. Its time that Leaf Nation start blaming the team and management and not the media who are just telling us the story that has unfolded.

Write more of these Leaf media and lets get Brian Burke fired and get things right in Leaf Nation.
You mean that you are not a member of Leaf Nation? Who knew?

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Old
03-15-2012, 10:38 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
You mean that you are not a member of Leaf Nation? Who knew?
You need new attacks Moose.

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03-15-2012, 10:43 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Lannister View Post
Farm team 2008-2009
Take a look at it…… not one prospect ...
i see a few. tlusty, kronwall, stralman, pogge. high hopes were had for all these guys.

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Toronto's front office has brains , but no luck yet. You need both to be successful.
this has much more to do with just bad luck and lack of patience.

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Old
03-15-2012, 11:04 AM
  #57
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Liles played well in the first half, signed a new deal, and hasn’t matched it since: He has three years and $12.7 million to go
Well, if he hasn;t matched it since then clearly the entire contract is a horrible signing and Burke should be fired.


The guy had 21 pts in 34 games before the lockout which is an incredible stat! He suffered an injury and missed 16 games. He's only been back for a short time that involves a complete komikaze nose dive and a coaching change!

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Old
03-15-2012, 11:09 AM
  #58
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Great article Steve.

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Old
03-15-2012, 11:12 AM
  #59
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Funniest thing I heard a couple weeks ago on TSN Leaf's breakfast, they said to Simmons, "well as a coach yourself". BAHAHAHAHA!!!

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Old
03-15-2012, 11:14 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
i think that is exactly his point. all this money on the "best minds in the nhl", and this is the best they can produce for us?


a stop-gap centre. when does the gap stop? when do we get our real centre? who or what are we waiting for?


are they all over paid, or are they paid the going rate? it can't be both.

and if the system is to blame for their failures, shouldn't that have been thought of before signing them? they haven't been any better since carlyle took over.
Best minds....The money spent on upper management, would only be distributed throughout the league as profit-sharing, Burke has pulled off some great trades and they were not of his own making entirely, a lot of the credit has to go to that group as a whole.

Stop gap center....Top centers are not a dime a dozen as some here think, getting one is extremely difficult and the costs in prospects and draft choices are prohibitive, check out which one you would get in this years F/A crop.
http://www.sportscity.com/nhl/2012-n...ition/#Centers

Over paid....The going rate of most free agent players is very high and so if you want to get any you have to pay the rate that other teams will pay, to be in the game and in my opinion, they are all over paid.

How do you know if they will fit in a team system.... Until you hire them, they are all professional hockey players and have played many systems coming up through the ranks OHL, AHL and NHL and even before and were successful or they wouldn't be here but certain systems favour different players, like the old saying "horses for courses".

Note.... Carlyle has only been here a short time and it takes time to implement a new system and too some of these players will be elsewhere, in trades and free agency.

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Old
03-15-2012, 11:14 AM
  #61
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Brian Burke has had only 3 years and Simmons is calling the team a disaster. Of course the team isn’t going to be built up to a playoff contender in 3 years. You look at David Poile in Nashville who started in 1998 and only in the last few years started getting success, albeit the Predators have been a budget team since inception.

The Leafs do spend the money on players, but they just need some luck and better talent asset management on the free agency front. Dave Tallon is good at assessing players, as he did turn around Chicago and Florida now. Too bad the Leafs couldn't get Tallon on board, but otherwise the "brain trust" this team has should hopefully pull the team out sooner rather than later. It will take time, the fans are just impatient.

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Old
03-15-2012, 11:23 AM
  #62
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To Gatorade and everyone who wants Burke gone. In 3-4 years you'll be saying the same thing about the next GM, then the next...

It Takes time to build a team. You cant keep recycling GM's every 3-4 years, the leafs will constantly be stuck in a place of being mediocre and will never see a cup again.

Give Burke 6-8 years and if nothings changed by then after some of his draft picks have panned out the by all means call for his head.

Edmontons been rebuilding for 5 years now and they are still in the bottom of the standing.. success doesn't happen over night.

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Old
03-15-2012, 11:24 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by maplehawk View Post
i can't think of a more hopeless team in north american pro sports in the last 5 years. the fact that we are one of the richest in the league just further proves this point.
Columbus is still miles and miles ahead of us in the hopelessness department.

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03-15-2012, 11:24 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by 1927 View Post
Brian Burke has had only 3 years and Simmons is calling the team a disaster. Of course the team isn’t going to be built up to a playoff contender in 3 years. You look at David Poile in Nashville who started in 1998 and only in the last few years started getting success, albeit the Predators have been a budget team since inception.

The Leafs do spend the money on players, but they just need some luck and better talent asset management on the free agency front. Dave Tallon is good at assessing players, as he did turn around Chicago and Florida now. Too bad the Leafs couldn't get Tallon on board, but otherwise the "brain trust" this team has should hopefully pull the team out sooner rather than later. It will take time, the fans are just impatient.


No kidding. Not only that, fans are pissed, disappointed, fed up, sad, ect. Same as last year, and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that and.......

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03-15-2012, 11:26 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1927 View Post
Brian Burke has had only 3 years and Simmons is calling the team a disaster. Of course the team isn’t going to be built up to a playoff contender in 3 years. You look at David Poile in Nashville who started in 1998 and only in the last few years started getting success, albeit the Predators have been a budget team since inception.

The Leafs do spend the money on players, but they just need some luck and better talent asset management on the free agency front. Dave Tallon is good at assessing players, as he did turn around Chicago and Florida now. Too bad the Leafs couldn't get Tallon on board, but otherwise the "brain trust" this team has should hopefully pull the team out sooner rather than later. It will take time, the fans are just impatient.
I would like to see how Florida does next season before I call them a success or not. They banking on their early success in the season to carry them into the playoffs.

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Old
03-15-2012, 11:29 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorDingDong View Post
To Gatorade and everyone who wants Burke gone. In 3-4 years you'll be saying the same thing about the next GM, then the next...

It Takes time to build a team. You cant keep recycling GM's every 3-4 years, the leafs will constantly be stuck in a place of being mediocre and will never see a cup again.

Give Burke 6-8 years and if nothings changed by then after some of his draft picks have panned out the by all means call for his head.

Edmontons been rebuilding for 5 years now and they are still in the bottom of the standing.. success doesn't happen over night.
There is no reason to keep Burke. None. He said what he was going to do and he failed. Accountability is most important.

Brian Burke

"As I said to you guys a year ago, I wasn't interested, and I'm still not, in a five-year ... I know it doesn't have to be five years, because it wasn't in Anaheim"

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Old
03-15-2012, 11:30 AM
  #67
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Connolly was a short term stop-gap, the second best center in the FA market last season, and at that point Grabovski, Bozak and Dupuis were the only centers on our team. His work ethic can sometimes be questioned, but his production isn't as bad as people make it out to be, considering that he has spent the majority of the season on the third line. It was a good signing, regardless of how it turned out.

Mike Komisarek wasn't the best signing in retrospect, but he was coming off of a great season, and multiple teams offered him similar dollars. He has picked his game up considerably since the coaching change, and his signing hasn't hindered us in any way.

Colby Armstrong was a great signing. When he was healthy, he brought great energy to our game. His non-stop injury problems were not something that could be foreseen.

Luke Schenn is not overpaid. He is 22 and leads all defensemen in hits. He has shown flashes of brilliance and has tons of room to improve.

Liles... seriously? He came at a discount for god's sake. This is an example of a great Burke signing. I'm sure Liles slowing down was because he got his payday, and not because of his concussion.

Beauchemin wasn't a bad defensemen. His play in Anaheim proves that. He was in a bad situation here. And Burke turned him into a top-10 scorer in the league and a blue chip prospect already proving himself in the NHL, which is proof that what we consider "bad contracts" are not always bad contracts.

Taking on Lombardi got us Franson for a player with negative value. Nobody even expected him to be able to play this year. The fact that he is in the lineup is amazing on its own. Let's give him an off-season to train before we call him a useless player.

And people say Burke blows hot air. One of the worst articles ever, written by one of the stupidest writers ever. But because the eternal pessimists have taken over this forum, it seems you all love it. We got these players for free, were some of the best options of their time in FA, and they haven't prevented us from doing anything.

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Old
03-15-2012, 11:31 AM
  #68
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Columbus is still miles and miles ahead of us in the hopelessness department.
Columbus is hardly a fair comparison though is it?

I hope that doesn't make you feel better that we have outshone Columbus.

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03-15-2012, 11:32 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budsfan View Post
Simmons uses a lot of half-truths, to make a point about Burke being a bad GM, we all know he has a bone to pick because of his embarrassment at calling out Burke, for being with our Armed Forces overseas, instead of being here to negotiate for Richards and Simmons was taken to task by the rest of the Media for doing so.

Highest paid front office.... We have more money to use than most teams and the only way to use it, is by getting the best minds in the NHL, we are restricted by the cap to get players and we can afford to use our money in this way.

Tim Connolly..... NYR got Brad Richards, mostly because he wanted to go there and secondly they gave him an outrageous contract, Connolly as we all know is a stop-gap center and hasn't worked out here but he was only signed for 2 years and his contract is finished after next season.

Komisarek, Armstrong, Schenn, Liles And Beauchemin over paid.... All these Players, have been useful role players and Beauchemin's trade netted us Gardiner and Lupul, over paid they may be but the going rate in the league and certainly because of the system used, namely the run and gun, they were not used too effectively but with a more defensive system they may become important now and in the future.

The Lombardi deal..... Simmons uses Lombardi's contract, 7 million for the final 2 years as a negative, without mentioning Franson as the real prize of this deal and Lombardi was iffy to even play this year but has contributed quite a bit and his contract will be done at the end of next year.
Exactly. A lot of facts are conveniently ignored in this article.

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Old
03-15-2012, 11:33 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
But because the eternal pessimists have taken over this forum, it seems you all love it.
Calling a Leaf fan an eternal pessimist is like blaming Charlie Brown for not kicking the ball one more time.

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Old
03-15-2012, 11:38 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by maplehawk View Post
until management gets away from the dinosaur concept of building a team through high priced free agents, and starts drafting and developing our own players, nothing is going to change.

burke is stuck in the pre-cap era and can't get out of it.
High priced free agents aren't the problem. It's the high priced, second rate free agents that are killing us. We consistently pass on some of the best players in the game. Gaborik and Kovalchuk specifically come to mind. We could have signed Marian Gaborik for nothing, instead we trade a future #1 center for an inferior player in Phil Kessel. It's decisions like this that will continue to bite us in the ass.

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03-15-2012, 11:50 AM
  #72
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Must be that time of year. The Leafs have been awful? **** all over them. How do these guys continue getting paid to write this crap? it's not informative at all, brings nothing new to the fans.

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Old
03-15-2012, 11:57 AM
  #73
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Simmons is bang on. Would love to see the looks on the "bloated management's" faces when they read that one! Consider this article another "dirtbag" payback for Burkie.

Simmons forgot to mention our goalies are second string...Kadri looks like a bust and now Kessel may not be fitting in to the style of play of the new Coach Burke just gave a 3 year deal to.

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03-15-2012, 12:00 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by CoolBlue View Post
Simmons is bang on. Would love to see the looks on the "bloated management's" faces when they read that one! Consider this article another "dirtbag" payback for Burkie.

Simmons forgot to mention our goalies are second string...Kadri looks like a bust and now Kessel may not be fitting in to the style of play of the new Coach Burke just gave a 3 year deal to.
Sure, all sorts of additional made up crap could have been added to the article but he can only use a limited amount of space.

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Old
03-15-2012, 12:05 PM
  #75
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So if we read between the lines, we're learning that Simmons is very ******** from Burke's "dirtbag" comment.

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