HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Fantasy Hockey Talk > All Time Draft
All Time Draft Fantasy league where players of the past and present meet.

ATD 2012 - Draft Thread VIII

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-15-2012, 07:24 AM
  #76
markrander87
Registered User
 
markrander87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,573
vCash: 500
The Fireworks are very pleased to select D Ed Jovanovski




The Jovo cop is a 5X All star and has 2 6th place finishes in Norris Voting. I also believe he led his team several times in ATOI I will look further into this today. He also has a great international record playing for Canada in the 2002 Olympics, 4 World Championships and a World Cup.

He adds a great mix of physicality and puck moving and may replace Greschner on my bottom pairing.

markrander87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 07:26 AM
  #77
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
The Fireworks are very pleased to select D Ed Jovanovski





The Jovo cop is a 5X All star and has 2 6th place finishes in Norris Voting. I also believe he led his team several times in ATOI I will look further into this today. He also has a great international record playing for Canada in the 2002 Olympics, 4 World Championships and a World Cup.

He adds a great mix of physicality and puck moving and may replace Greschner on my bottom pairing.
I'm pretty sure that's who we were all talking about

I have him and Redden as near-equals in terms of peak and career value. Jovanovski might be a slighty better individual player, but he's not as easy to fit into a line-up, which is why I took Redden.

Nice pick.

Dreakmur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 08:53 AM
  #78
jarek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,550
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I finally completed a reorganization of the Duke Keats bio.

Here is my version.

Here is jarek's original.

There's nothing all that new there. I included the more detailed look at his stats from this draft and what I thought were the best quotes from jarek's extensive bio (which was so full of research it was hard to follow at times IMO). It's 10% original work, 90% leaching off jarek.

I'm bringing it up here, because Jarek's profile contained this quote from a 1923 newspaper (the one describing why Keats was a 1st Team All Star):


"Quick on his skates" can mean anything, but I doubt they would call someone who was the slowest player in the league, right? So I skimmed jarek's original bio for quotes about Keats' skating and realized that the two hilarious quotes about Keats being the slowest skater in the league and "not quite as slow as a snail" are from 1928, his last good season before he really declined.

Jarek (or others who have researched the period), is the actual evidence Keats was a slug for his entire career or just at the end of it, as he started putting on weight? (By no means am I selling Keats as above average or even average here, but I genuinely wonder if the reputation of him being a slug is overblown based off of quotes from the end of his career, like we used to think about George Boucher).
My impression was that he only started getting super slow by the end of his career. I literally did this: open Google News Archive, type "Duke Keats" (without the quotes), narrow the time frame to within the years he played and go. I probably went through 400 or 500 articles, but I never found any reference to his poor skating until 1928, basically. Him putting on weight probably had a lot to do with it, yeah. The only evidence I have that he WASN'T slow before then is the lack of evidence that he was, however, given the last few years of his career where he was basically the slowest player in the entire league, I would say that puts him at a below average skating level.

I didn't try to sell this too hard last time because I wasn't too concerned about it, and how much could it really improve his skating reputation anyways? Going from horrible to well below average isn't much of an upgrade.. but perhaps you can get some mileage out of it. I doubt it would make much of a difference anyways. I don't think the outlook on Keats' skating is going to be enough to prove he's better than Max Bentley.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Seems like I'm on the clock!

--------

With our 22nd selection, the 728th overall in this year All-Time Draft, l'équipe nationale de France est fier de sélectionner, from Vojnuv Mestec , Czechoslovakia, l'ailier Jaroslav 'Potato' Jirik





http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...7&postcount=59
(seventieslord biography)
seventies really impressed me with this guy, nice pick!

jarek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 10:42 AM
  #79
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
RIP Kev
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,857
vCash: 2498
Lada Togliatti selects C Jason Allison


DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 10:45 AM
  #80
jarek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,550
vCash: 500
Find me a better offensive player than Allison at this point. You probably won't. Good pick. He has certain.. deficiencies.. but he scored at a fairly high rate for a number of years.

jarek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 10:54 AM
  #81
overpass
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarek View Post
Find me a better offensive player than Allison at this point. You probably won't. Good pick. He has certain.. deficiencies.. but he scored at a fairly high rate for a number of years.
There's at least one better offensive player still out there.

overpass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 10:58 AM
  #82
seventieslord
Registered User
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
There's at least one better offensive player still out there.
There is probably a couple dozen who could make that claim, just thinking about the wealth of players we still had access to in last MLD and AAA despite the ATD being 1000 picks.

Allison is an "appropriate" pick right now based on offensive results, but he certainly wasn't sticking out like a sore thumb or anything.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 11:46 AM
  #83
Hobnobs
Pinko
 
Hobnobs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,947
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I'm pretty sure that's who we were all talking about

I have him and Redden as near-equals in terms of peak and career value. Jovanovski might be a slighty better individual player, but he's not as easy to fit into a line-up, which is why I took Redden.

Nice pick.
I hope the fact that your co-gm pretty much discarded him immiedietly had something to do with it.

Hobnobs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 12:20 PM
  #84
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 37,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I'm pretty sure that's who we were all talking about

I have him and Redden as near-equals in terms of peak and career value. Jovanovski might be a slighty better individual player, but he's not as easy to fit into a line-up, which is why I took Redden.

Nice pick.
I think Redden peaked higher but career value, you might give it to Jovo, since Redden's play fell off a cliff.

When I was listing potential #5 defensemen for me, Jovo wasn't even on my radar because I didn't consider him the type of player I wanted.

I wanted a good two-way guy. His physical beastliness is great, but I preferred a cerebral player who was good in his own zone at even strength and good on the PP. (And let's face it, you aren't getting a guy who is both smart and physical and has offensive instincts this late in the draft).

According to "The Spreadsheet," Jovo's PP offense is actually fairly unimpressive - it seems he gets a large % of his offense at even strength, which is fine if that's what you're going for. (Though it does go along with the perception that he perhaps sacrificed D for O).

He was top of my list for #7s though and could be a #5 if you wanted a more high-risk high-reward guy. (I did consider him as a #5 at some point if that was the direction I wanted to go).

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 12:22 PM
  #85
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 37,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Seems like I'm on the clock!

--------

With our 22nd selection, the 728th overall in this year All-Time Draft, l'équipe nationale de France est fier de sélectionner, from Vojnuv Mestec , Czechoslovakia, l'ailier Jaroslav 'Potato' Jirik

[IMG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7DRk5DytrEw/ThsD2NN8xlI/AAAAAAAAAwE/8qC8B90mTAE/s1600/jirik.jpg[/IMG


http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...7&postcount=59
(seventieslord biography)

I was considering him, but I think he's probably overrated as a physical presence, since in Europe hitting in the offense zone was prohibited during the course of his career.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 12:38 PM
  #86
Modo
Global Moderator
Mo'Benn
 
Modo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Etobicoke
Country: Canada
Posts: 40,119
vCash: 50
Sorry again for the late pick.....currently at work, lol

Dawson City welcomes back its' sole returnee from last year's ATD team, Darius Kasparaitis, D.

__________________
If you're telekinetic and you know it, clap my hands!
Modo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:07 PM
  #87
jarek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,550
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I was considering him, but I think he's probably overrated as a physical presence, since in Europe hitting in the offense zone was prohibited during the course of his career.
Should that really be used to punish the guy, though? He was as physical as he could possibly have been within the scope of the rules. In the same way that we can't punish guys like Shore for dirty play, we can't really punish Jirik for what he wasn't allowed to do.

jarek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:08 PM
  #88
markrander87
Registered User
 
markrander87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,573
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think Redden peaked higher but career value, you might give it to Jovo, since Redden's play fell off a cliff.
That's a pretty fair assessment. I really haven't looked that far into detail about the two. I glanced over their Norris finishes and they are pretty similar (Jovo 6,6) (Redden 5,9,10 IIRC)

I'm not saying this to try and discredit Redden or anything I think he was a great player, but I was shocked that he only played in one all star game.


Quote:
According to "The Spreadsheet," Jovo's PP offense is actually fairly unimpressive - it seems he gets a large % of his offense at even strength, which is fine if that's what you're going for. (Though it does go along with the perception that he perhaps sacrificed D for O).

He was top of my list for #7s though and could be a #5 if you wanted a more high-risk high-reward guy. (I did consider him as a #5 at some point if that was the direction I wanted to go).
That's pretty good news, I don't intend on him playing on my PP at all, I wanted another physical dman to have as an option.

Out of Plager, Greschner and Jovo which two do people think would make the best 3rd pairing option?

markrander87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:19 PM
  #89
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 37,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
That's a pretty fair assessment. I really haven't looked that far into detail about the two. I glanced over their Norris finishes and they are pretty similar (Jovo 6,6) (Redden 5,9,10 IIRC)

I'm not saying this to try and discredit Redden or anything I think he was a great player, but I was shocked that he only played in one all star game.




That's pretty good news, I don't intend on him playing on my PP at all, I wanted another physical dman to have as an option.

Out of Plager, Greschner and Jovo which two do people think would make the best 3rd pairing option?
I would do Plager and Jovo, but I think Greschner is overrated. Greschner is probably the best PP option if you need someone who can do that.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:22 PM
  #90
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 37,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarek View Post
Should that really be used to punish the guy, though? He was as physical as he could possibly have been within the scope of the rules. In the same way that we can't punish guys like Shore for dirty play, we can't really punish Jirik for what he wasn't allowed to do.
He wasn't exactly a big man either. I mean, I buy him as a good energy player.

I was one of the main ones rolling my eyes at a couple of HOH posters who were trying to discredit Jan Suchy during the defensemen project for starting his career before European hockey allowed body checking in all three zones. Even if he spent his whole career under those circumstances (which he didn't), I don't see it taking away all that much from what he did offensively or defensively.

But I do have a problem with using a forward who spent basically his entire career in an era where body checks were prohibited in the offense zone as a physical presence.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:26 PM
  #91
Hobnobs
Pinko
 
Hobnobs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,947
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
He wasn't exactly a big man either. I mean, I buy him as a good energy player.

I was one of the main ones rolling my eyes at a couple of HOH posters who were trying to discredit Jan Suchy during the defensemen project for starting his career before European hockey allowed body checking in all three zones. Even if he spent his whole career under those circumstances (which he didn't), I don't see it taking away all that much from what he did offensively or defensively.

But I do have a problem with using a forward who spent basically his entire career in an era where body checks were prohibited in the offense zone as a physical presence.
People was still allowed to hit you in the offensive zone so I dont see why he couldnt be a physical presence.

Hobnobs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:31 PM
  #92
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 37,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
People was still allowed to hit you in the offensive zone so I dont see why he couldnt be a physical presence.
But he wasn't allowed to hit the defensemen himself to soften them up, which is something that some people want from 4th liners. I think he's fine as a gritty guy who will fight for the puck.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:34 PM
  #93
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
That's a pretty fair assessment. I really haven't looked that far into detail about the two. I glanced over their Norris finishes and they are pretty similar (Jovo 6,6) (Redden 5,9,10 IIRC)
Redden has 5, 9, 10, 11, and 12. Jovo has 6, 6, 15 and 15.

Are Jovanovski's 50 extra games really substantial when talking about longevity?

Quote:
I'm not saying this to try and discredit Redden or anything I think he was a great player, but I was shocked that he only played in one all star game.
He made 2 All-Star games, but didn't play in one of them. The fact that he played on a pretty darn good Senators team, alongside other drafted guys like Alfredsson, Chara, Hossa, Heatley, and others, made it tough to get into those all-star games.

Don't forget that there are factors outside of just picking the best players. Those factors appear to have punished Redden as well as rewarded Jovanovski.

Quote:
Out of Plager, Greschner and Jovo which two do people think would make the best 3rd pairing option?
I'd probably rotate them.

When I'm playing a team with small quick forwards, I'll use Redden instead of Portland.

Dreakmur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 01:43 PM
  #94
Hobnobs
Pinko
 
Hobnobs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,947
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
But he wasn't allowed to hit the defensemen himself to soften them up, which is something that some people want from 4th liners. I think he's fine as a gritty guy who will fight for the puck.
They were allowed to fight back tho. Remember reading a interview with a swede about this.

Hobnobs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 02:20 PM
  #95
seventieslord
Registered User
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,587
vCash: 500
Here's a really simplistic view of Jovanovski and Redden:

Redden played about 40 more seconds per game in his career. Not a huge deal. Take out Jovo's 2012 season as a 35-year old and the difference is only about 30 seconds in almost equal GP.

However, Redden earned these minutes on teams that were typically strong: His teams' weighted average in his career was 18% better than the league average (based on GF/GA in all situations, not just win%). Jovanovski's average team strength was exactly 1.00 - meaning average.

As we have seen with many players when analyzing their TOI, it's easier to get ice time on lesser teams, and more difficult and more impressive to get ice time on better teams. Also, with all things being equal, you have to give a player credit for making their team better, particularly when they are on the ice nearly half the game, usually more often than any player other than the goalie.

One more point, if you separate out ES play specifically, it's interesting to note that Redden's teams had an R-off of 1.15 but when he was on the ice his R-on was 1.27. In other words, his team was great without him, but even greater with him.

In Jovo's case, his teams were 1.06 without him but dropped to 0.96 with him on the ice.

I think matchups, defense partners and forward lines can have an impact on this type of stat, and particularly in swings from season to season. I don't think that over a 1000-game sample we can say that these are major influences, but I'll listen to a good argument for otherwise.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 02:27 PM
  #96
markrander87
Registered User
 
markrander87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,573
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Here's a really simplistic view of Jovanovski and Redden:

Redden played about 40 more seconds per game in his career. Not a huge deal. Take out Jovo's 2012 season as a 35-year old and the difference is only about 30 seconds in almost equal GP.

However, Redden earned these minutes on teams that were typically strong: His teams' weighted average in his career was 18% better than the league average (based on GF/GA in all situations, not just win%). Jovanovski's average team strength was exactly 1.00 - meaning average.

As we have seen with many players when analyzing their TOI, it's easier to get ice time on lesser teams, and more difficult and more impressive to get ice time on better teams. Also, with all things being equal, you have to give a player credit for making their team better, particularly when they are on the ice nearly half the game, usually more often than any player other than the goalie.

One more point, if you separate out ES play specifically, it's interesting to note that Redden's teams had an R-off of 1.15 but when he was on the ice his R-on was 1.27. In other words, his team was great without him, but even greater with him.

In Jovo's case, his teams were 1.06 without him but dropped to 0.96 with him on the ice.


I think matchups, defense partners and forward lines can have an impact on this type of stat, and particularly in swings from season to season. I don't think that over a 1000-game sample we can say that these are major influences, but I'll listen to a good argument for otherwise.

Quite simply the ATOI stat is not as powerful as you sometimes make it out to be. XXXX from Vancouver played 3-25 seconds or so more PPG then Jovo but Jovo was consistently selected to represent Vancouver ahead of said defenceman.


Also regarding the bolded, don't you think that having a teammate like Chara would have a massive impact on those numbers? It's not that simple at all. Posting these figures are pretty much useless unless you want to back them up by including what type of match ups each defenseman would have and who on their teams they played with (offensive line and D Partner)

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Chara dealt with the mojority of other teams top lines and either Redden played with him (which would be beneficial) or Redden drew the easier Assisgnment (Which would also be beneficial)

Looking through Jovo's teammates in Vancouver, Jovo to me looks like he would have had the toughest assignments.

Again a resident Ottawa or Vancouver fan could correct me if i'm wrong.


Regarding their later years. It still looks as though Jovo would handle the top lines of opposing teams in Phoenix, and we all saw what Redden did in New York/Connecticut.

I know we used ATOI etc.. for Vadnais and other defenseman, but the more I look into it the more information we need to actually prove how much truth is to them.

It's pretty easy to say Jovo was #2 in Vancouver becasue XXX played more minutes a game, but you (at least any hockey fan) should know that there are minutes and then there are tough minutes.

A playmaking offensive defenseman playing with his teams top line against 3rd line checking forwards plays easier minutes then a shut down defenseman playing physical minutes against teams top units.


Last edited by markrander87: 03-15-2012 at 02:41 PM.
markrander87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 02:36 PM
  #97
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 37,931
vCash: 500
One thing to keep in mind about Jovanovski is that he is exactly the type of player who is most overrated by awards voters - a defensemen who puts up points and hits hard.

Don't think I'm criticizing his placement here - I considered drafting him when I drafted my backup not too long ago.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 02:38 PM
  #98
markrander87
Registered User
 
markrander87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,573
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
One thing to keep in mind about Jovanovski is that he is exactly the type of player who is most overrated by awards voters - a defensemen who puts up points and hits hard.

Don't think I'm criticizing his placement here - I considered drafting him when I drafted my backup not too long ago.

What is this even suppose to mean?

markrander87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 02:40 PM
  #99
overpass
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Quite simply the ATOI stat is not as powerful as you sometimes make it out to be. XXXX from Vancouver played 3-25 seconds or so more PPG then Jovo but Jovo was consistently selected to represent Vancouver ahead of said defenceman.


Also regarding the bolded, don't you think that having a teammate like Chara would have a massive impact on those numbers? It's not that simple at all. Posting these figures are pretty much useless unless you want to back them up by including what type of match ups each defenseman would have and who on their teams they played with (offensive line and D Partner)

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Chara dealt with the mojority of other teams top lines and either Redden played with him (which would be beneficial) or Redden drew the easier Assisgnment (Which would also be beneficial)

Looking through Jovo's teammates in Vancouver, Jovo to me looks like he would have had the toughest assignments.

Again a resident Ottawa or Vancouver fan could correct me if i'm wrong.
Redden was on the top pairing with Jason York from 98-99 to 00-01, before Chara. Not sure what matchups they faced or how much they played with Ottawa's top line, I wasn't watching for that at the time. But Ottawa didn't have a clear shutdown pairing apart from Redden-York.

Redden partnered with Chara for much of 01-02 and I expect they drew the tough assignments.

From 02-03 to 05-06 Chara's pairing faced top lines. Redden's usually didn't. Same thing after Chara left - another pairing faced top lines.

Redden's defensive play was highly touted when he was drafted, and he was very good defensively as a young defenceman, as he looked like a seasoned veteran and played on the top pairing at age 21. But his defensive game never really developed or improved from that point, and it declined quickly in his early 30s. Not a typical development path for a defenceman.


Last edited by overpass: 03-15-2012 at 02:49 PM.
overpass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 02:40 PM
  #100
jarek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,550
vCash: 500
He's saying that Jovo was a hard-hitting offensive specialist, and because of that, he got a lot of award recognition, which masked his defensive deficiencies and overall just made him look better than he actually was.

jarek is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:36 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.