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It's a good thing to finish strongly...

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Old
03-15-2012, 02:03 PM
  #26
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
clearly the team is looking better since, AK and Gill are gone, Gomez plays less or not at all and Cammy also must be included in the mix.
Less mixing up of lines since everyone has seen just how good Patches Desharnais and Cole play together and they take the first shift on any PP. Markov has already made some HUGE outlet passes ( this ain't Gill)
The rest are just little things like the 3rd and 4th lines are playing more body then ever.
We haven't been playing well at all. We look just as bad as we have all along.

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03-15-2012, 02:04 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Well, we've shown zero ability to move up to high draft picks via trades but maybe if we get a new GM he can make a flip with the Oilers. This is a defense heavy draft and they need help there. It might actually make sense for them to deal with us if we're 5th or 6th. They could move down and still get the blueliner they're looking for. Other teams will want to do this as well but the Leafs are probably disqualified due to the animosity between Burke and that organization. Question is... even if Edmonton considers it, what do we have to give up to move to 2nd?
Personally, as long as we draft in the top 7, I wouldn't necessarily entertain the idea of moving up in the draft. Guys like Dumba, Forsberg, Galchenyuk or Trouba all have loads of talent. The best player in the draft, in hindsight, might be one of these. Plus, for what it would take to move all the way up to 2nd, if we're drafting 5th of lower, will be too steep, in my opinion. Grigorenko is not considered a surefire superstar in the hockey world, from what I've heard, so I'm not sure it'd be worth it to overpay to draft him.

For once, Timmins actually goes to a draft with 2nd rounders in hands. Let's see what he can do with it, he did draft Subban and Tender in the 2nd round, after all.

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Old
03-15-2012, 02:08 PM
  #28
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Even though there is some positive from this, I'll show you the negative side:

STILL NO TOP STAR IN THE ORGANISATION
We're not really going to win anything with this roster. If can't get Grigorenko, Yakupov or Galchenyuk, then we'll keep finishing 7th or 8th for the next 10 years.

OVERPAID
Kaberle, Gomez, Gionta. They are not very good and they are wayyyyyy overpaid. You could even add Bourque in here.

ERIK COLE
We might have just ''wasted'' Erik Cole's last good season. This guy is a slow starter, and at 34 years old he is not getting any younger. I really fear this guy won't be able to play as well as he did this year anymore. I hope I'm wrong, god I hope I'm wrong.

SOFT ON THE BACKEND
Weber, Diaz, St-Denis, Kaberle, Campoli, Markov and even Gorges. Need I say more?

FARM TEAM SUCKS
Clément Jodoin sucks and the majority of our prospects in Hamilton probably will not even be playing in a relevant league 2 years from now. They suck.

MANAGEMENT SUCKS
Molson and Gauthier suck and they are the two most important piece in our management team. I love our scouts (maybe minus the dude who scouts Scandinavia) and I don't mind our coaches, but at least Gauthier has got to go. Oh and you know the media will make a huge story out of the bilingual stuff if Cunneyworth stays. So he's probably going to. Big changes needed here.

BOTTOM LINES
We have seen our team improve in this department by bringing in more physical and intense players. Staubitz, White, Blunden are a breathe of fresh air. Please do not bring back the likes of Moen, Darche and Nokelainen.

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Old
03-15-2012, 02:10 PM
  #29
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
We haven't been playing well at all. We look just as bad as we have all along.
I think we've been playing better since that tough win against Minnesota.

Pressure is off, guys are having fun and high fiving the refs on goals.

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Old
03-15-2012, 02:11 PM
  #30
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I'd like to draft C Brendan Gaunce or D Griffin Reinhart With a 7 to 10 pick. If Pleks were to move, I'd only look at futures in high end picks or high end blue chip prospects as a return to save even more cap space and infusion of youth.

Whatever happens though, I hope we have some stability in the front office first and foremost!

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Old
03-15-2012, 02:12 PM
  #31
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Gauthier should fire RC and go behind the bench himself to make sure we loose all the remaining games !

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Old
03-15-2012, 02:14 PM
  #32
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Cunneyworth is coaching to try and keep/get another job in the league, he has no reason to try and develop players who he probably won't be coaching next year.

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Old
03-15-2012, 02:28 PM
  #33
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by #57 View Post
Even though there is some positive from this, I'll show you the negative side:

STILL NO TOP STAR IN THE ORGANISATION
We're not really going to win anything with this roster. If can't get Grigorenko, Yakupov or Galchenyuk, then we'll keep finishing 7th or 8th for the next 10 years.

OVERPAID
Kaberle, Gomez, Gionta. They are not very good and they are wayyyyyy overpaid. You could even add Bourque in here.

ERIK COLE
We might have just ''wasted'' Erik Cole's last good season. This guy is a slow starter, and at 34 years old he is not getting any younger. I really fear this guy won't be able to play as well as he did this year anymore. I hope I'm wrong, god I hope I'm wrong.

SOFT ON THE BACKEND
Weber, Diaz, St-Denis, Kaberle, Campoli, Markov and even Gorges. Need I say more?

FARM TEAM SUCKS
Clément Jodoin sucks and the majority of our prospects in Hamilton probably will not even be playing in a relevant league 2 years from now. They suck.

MANAGEMENT SUCKS
Molson and Gauthier suck and they are the two most important piece in our management team. I love our scouts (maybe minus the dude who scouts Scandinavia) and I don't mind our coaches, but at least Gauthier has got to go. Oh and you know the media will make a huge story out of the bilingual stuff if Cunneyworth stays. So he's probably going to. Big changes needed here.

BOTTOM LINES
We have seen our team improve in this department by bringing in more physical and intense players. Staubitz, White, Blunden are a breathe of fresh air. Please do not bring back the likes of Moen, Darche and Nokelainen.
Interesting points. We definitely have a bunch of holes but lots of players with upside so it's difficult to know where we'll land next year.

No top star? You're right. Hopefully Subban, Max or Price become that player but they aren't yet. And even if one (or more) does, another star at this draft would greatly help.

Overpaid? Yup, those guys are overpaid and some are useless. Doesn't really matter for next year though because we won't win anything anyway. Folks talk about getting rid of Gomez, I don't even know that we have to unless we're making way for younger players. Otherwise just suit him up.

Erik Cole. You just might be right. I didn't like that signing at all because of his age. I have to admit though, he's been GREAT for us. Despite it being a quick fix type move he's played really well and it's opened up management's eyes to the fact that we've needed this kind of player for YEARS. As good as he's been though, I think we should try to move him. His value will never be higher and at 34, he won't win anything with us.

Soft on the back end? No, you don't have to say more. We should start playing the kids next season if some are ready. Problem is that I don't think any are. No more patchwork short term fixes. If we can play some kids instead, get rid of Kaberle and Campioli. Be prepared to fall in the standings but no more quick fixes... please. We've supposedly got good defense prospects, if they're ready play them. Be patient with them and let them make their mistakes.

Farm team sucks? Beaulieau and Tinordi are out there. Probably not ready to make the leap yet unfortunately. Farm team could be better though...

Management sucks. Yes, it does. If we don't change it then nothing really matters because we probably won't be going anywhere.

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Old
03-15-2012, 02:30 PM
  #34
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With this year's draft, it won't make much difference whether the team finishes 3rd or 7th, as there isn't any drop-off in the quality of the players available, The only difference is that they wouldn't have has much choice of the player they will pick. Considering they will pick the BPA, no matter the position, they will still end up with a quality prospect regardless of how they end the season. Might as well learn to win right away.

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Old
03-15-2012, 02:30 PM
  #35
HabbyGilmore
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OP.. this is the stupidest reasoning ever. Who gives a flying... Leaf *spit* if we finish strong this season? Are we going to make the playoffs? NO... so how is finishing strong and potentially losing a top 5 pick in any way going to help us?.. it does nothing for this season and could possibly do us nothing down the road if we dont get a really good pick in the draft.

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Old
03-15-2012, 02:45 PM
  #36
lamp9post
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
From where I was sitting, there were questions surrounding:
-Markov (injury)
-Price(consistency)
-Subban (inevitable sophomore dman slump)
-Cole (change of scenery)
-Pacioretty (injury)
-Emelin (new to NA)
-Gorges (injury)
-White (injury)


Edit: And I'm missing the biggest question of all: What will be done with Gomez?
While it's taken 3/4s of the year, and started out horribly, every one of those questions have been answered (eventually) in a positive way, and don't look like question marks heading into next season...

Habs are bouncing back big time next year, mark my words!
I don't think anyone was too worried about Price or Subban heading into this season.

We have plenty of questions heading into next year too:

-Markov (how long will he last? The last 3 games do not answer this question)
-Plekanec (a bad year, or the beginning of a decline?)
-Secondary scoring (Will the return of Gionta be enough?)
-Toughness on D (This needs to be addressed)
-Desharnais (Legit #1 center or just a great year?)
-Bottom 6 (Are Geoffrion and LeBlanc ready/good enough to play full time?)
Emelin (will he re-sign?)

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Old
03-15-2012, 02:49 PM
  #37
Lshap
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Erik Cole. You just might be right. I didn't like that signing at all because of his age. I have to admit though, he's been GREAT for us. Despite it being a quick fix type move he's played really well and it's opened up management's eyes to the fact that we've needed this kind of player for YEARS. As good as he's been though, I think we should try to move him. His value will never be higher and at 34, he won't win anything with us.
Exactly! It had been so damn long that we'd had a power forward that you could actually hear the hinges of management's collective jaws drop as they watched Cole steamroll his way towards the nets. Everyone together went, "Oh...!", and thus began our sudden infatuation with size and power.

And beyond his considerable production, Cole also inspired the team around him. Safe to say that Pacioretty has modeled a part of his game after his veteran linemate.

It's like Eric Cole has become our all-purpose forward template.

The idea of trading him really divides me. Yeah, there's no question we could get some serious swag for Cole, maybe even waiting until December when teams' optimism starts leaking and they start plugging holes. I can see the logic. But I'm concerned it sends a rotten message to other free agents that signing with Montreal makes you fish bait. Yeah, yeah, I know the counter arguments -- players don't care, he's 34, law of diminishing returns, it happens all the time, etc. -- but players do place importance on making a city their home; we just don't know how much.

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Old
03-15-2012, 03:14 PM
  #38
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Finish strong has its points. What I want is for us to start strong next season. We had Brian Willsie playing in the last preseason game this year, screw that I want us to be trying kids and settling lines before opening night.

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Old
03-15-2012, 03:16 PM
  #39
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No it is not, you will see when you miss out on a franchise player come draft day you SORELY need in Montreal.

Lots of teams always do this when they are out of it and there is zero pressure playing for jobs next year.


Last edited by 4thliner*: 03-15-2012 at 03:22 PM.
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Old
03-15-2012, 04:19 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Well, we've shown zero ability to move up to high draft picks via trades
Unlike all those other teams that regularly trade up to a known top two or three pick?

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Old
03-15-2012, 04:36 PM
  #41
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I think not bringing Moen back would be a mistake. But that's just my opinion. Also, Darche doesn't cost us anything. No reason we can't keep him on the squad for 13th.

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Old
03-15-2012, 04:39 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #57 View Post
Even though there is some positive from this, I'll show you the negative side:

STILL NO TOP STAR IN THE ORGANISATION
We're not really going to win anything with this roster. If can't get Grigorenko, Yakupov or Galchenyuk, then we'll keep finishing 7th or 8th for the next 10 years.

OVERPAID
Kaberle, Gomez, Gionta. They are not very good and they are wayyyyyy overpaid. You could even add Bourque in here.

ERIK COLE
We might have just ''wasted'' Erik Cole's last good season. This guy is a slow starter, and at 34 years old he is not getting any younger. I really fear this guy won't be able to play as well as he did this year anymore. I hope I'm wrong, god I hope I'm wrong.

SOFT ON THE BACKEND
Weber, Diaz, St-Denis, Kaberle, Campoli, Markov and even Gorges. Need I say more?

FARM TEAM SUCKS
Clément Jodoin sucks and the majority of our prospects in Hamilton probably will not even be playing in a relevant league 2 years from now. They suck.

MANAGEMENT SUCKS
Molson and Gauthier suck and they are the two most important piece in our management team. I love our scouts (maybe minus the dude who scouts Scandinavia) and I don't mind our coaches, but at least Gauthier has got to go. Oh and you know the media will make a huge story out of the bilingual stuff if Cunneyworth stays. So he's probably going to. Big changes needed here.

BOTTOM LINES
We have seen our team improve in this department by bringing in more physical and intense players. Staubitz, White, Blunden are a breathe of fresh air. Please do not bring back the likes of Moen, Darche and Nokelainen.
Ahahahaha

This is nothing do to with a strong finish you dolt.

"derp sucks" "herpaderp sucks too" "blah blah blah blah blah blah sucks even more!!"

A strong finish establishes a lot of things OP wasn't trying to do a positive/negative thing, he was just stating - correctly, mind you - the benefits of finishing strong. What are the negatives of finishing strong? Lower draft pick, that's the only one and yes it's pretty important.

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Old
03-15-2012, 04:44 PM
  #43
Lafleurs Guy
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Exactly! It had been so damn long that we'd had a power forward that you could actually hear the hinges of management's collective jaws drop as they watched Cole steamroll his way towards the nets. Everyone together went, "Oh...!", and thus began our sudden infatuation with size and power.

And beyond his considerable production, Cole also inspired the team around him. Safe to say that Pacioretty has modeled a part of his game after his veteran linemate.

It's like Eric Cole has become our all-purpose forward template.

The idea of trading him really divides me. Yeah, there's no question we could get some serious swag for Cole, maybe even waiting until December when teams' optimism starts leaking and they start plugging holes. I can see the logic. But I'm concerned it sends a rotten message to other free agents that signing with Montreal makes you fish bait. Yeah, yeah, I know the counter arguments -- players don't care, he's 34, law of diminishing returns, it happens all the time, etc. -- but players do place importance on making a city their home; we just don't know how much.
Well, we could ask him. If he doesn't want to leave, he's not going anywhere. He's got a no trade clause.

But we should be asking him. I'm sure part of him would love to be playing for a contender.
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Originally Posted by Habtacular View Post
Unlike all those other teams that regularly trade up to a known top two or three pick?
If no other team was able to do this... then it just means that it's less likely that we'll be able to do it. Point is... it won't be easy to trade up.

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Old
03-15-2012, 04:47 PM
  #44
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Ahahahaha

This is nothing do to with a strong finish you dolt.

"derp sucks" "herpaderp sucks too" "blah blah blah blah blah blah sucks even more!!"

A strong finish establishes a lot of things OP wasn't trying to do a positive/negative thing, he was just stating - correctly, mind you - the benefits of finishing strong. What are the negatives of finishing strong? Lower draft pick, that's the only one and yes it's pretty important.
I think the point he was making is that these negatives are more likely to remain if we continue winning because PG would be more likely to stay and point to our hot finish as though it was the norm.

But uh, continue... please don't let me get in the way of your stimulating posts.

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Old
03-15-2012, 04:49 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by #57 View Post

STILL NO TOP STAR IN THE ORGANISATION
We're not really going to win anything with this roster. If can't get Grigorenko, Yakupov or Galchenyuk, then we'll keep finishing 7th or 8th for the next 10 years.

OVERPAID
Kaberle, Gomez, Gionta. They are not very good and they are wayyyyyy overpaid. You could even add Bourque in here.

ERIK COLE
We might have just ''wasted'' Erik Cole's last good season. This guy is a slow starter, and at 34 years old he is not getting any younger. I really fear this guy won't be able to play as well as he did this year anymore. I hope I'm wrong, god I hope I'm wrong.

FARM TEAM SUCKS
Clément Jodoin sucks and the majority of our prospects in Hamilton probably will not even be playing in a relevant league 2 years from now. They suck.
1. Price is a ''top star''. Pacioretty might very well end up being a star, so could Subban. We shouldn't expect whoever we'd draft top5 to be much better since all three above ARE playing like top5 players (Subban and Pacio would certainly be top5 in their draft, they are steals).

2. Gionta is a good player, he's just been injured all year. He isn't that overpaid. Gomez won't be back and Bourque&Kaberle's contracts are manageable. Once Gomez is off the books the Habs will be in a good position cap wise. Overpaid players is something every teams have (those who don't do not spend to the cap).

3. There is no telling about Cole.. Even if he scores a few less goals he'll be a valuable player nonetheless. Players aging is something every teams face.

4. The farm team is in a bit of a dark spot due to the age of our prospects. Next year Tinordi, Bournival, Beaulieu, Gallagher, Kristo and others (Ellis?) are going to join Hamilton. Right now they suck because our former top prospects (Subban, Pacioretty, Emelin, Diaz) exceeded expectations and already made the team without playing much with the Dogs AND because we traded some selections 3-4 years ago. AGAIN that is something every team faces once in a while. Our only prospects in Hamilton right now are undrafted (Engqvist, St. Denis, Berger ect.), later round selections or pretty low on the depth chart (like Palushaj)

Oh and Moen should be kept at all cost. He's the perfect bottom 6 player and a good trading chip if his role is taken over by younger players.

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Old
03-15-2012, 04:54 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Leaf fans say this every year. They always (except this year) finish strong after they're out of the playoffs and then talk about how they finished on a hot streak...

I'm sorry to break it to you but a top pick is far better than finishing strong. There's no way around it. A top pick has the potential to be a star player for you for over a decade... there's no comparison as to what would be better for us.

There's nothing we can do about it though. The club is going to play hard to win. It is what it is and that's how it should be. And hey, it's nice to actually watch us win some games so we might as well just sit back and enjoy it as best we can.

Sure would be nice to see the Isles and Leafs win a game for once though...
I agree with that. There's a huge difference between a top3 pick (as we were going to pick) and a 7-8th overall pick. Winning a couple of meaningless games isn't good enough to make this up.

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03-15-2012, 05:07 PM
  #47
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I think we've been playing better since that tough win against Minnesota.

Pressure is off, guys are having fun and high fiving the refs on goals.
I don't really see it. Still take bad decisions, still dump and chase, still try to simply clear it around the boards 99% of the time, still only one line producing.

I suppose you're right if you look at the record, 4-2-1 since that Minny game, including a 2-0-1 since the return of Markov.
But I still think we look horrible. These past two games must have been the most boring ones I've seen all year, and God knows there's been plenty of them.

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03-15-2012, 05:07 PM
  #48
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Nice to see a positive thread here every once in a while!

And I agree with what you said, it'll suck to not have a high draft pick but it IS nice to see the team play well for once.

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03-15-2012, 05:10 PM
  #49
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I agree with that. There's a huge difference between a top3 pick (as we were going to pick) and a 7-8th overall pick. Winning a couple of meaningless games isn't good enough to make this up.
Is there really in this year's draft?

I'm not a scouting expert, but from what I've read, outside Yakupov, there's question marks about the next picks in line, Grigs, Forsberg, Galch. So I don't know, maybe the difference isn't as big as we'd think. But as I said, I'm not convinced there isn't either, and from a logical stand point, the highest the pick the better.

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03-15-2012, 05:13 PM
  #50
FlyingKostitsyn
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Is there really in this year's draft?

I'm not a scouting expert, but from what I've read, outside Yakupov, there's question marks about the next picks in line, Grigs, Forsberg, Galch. So I don't know, maybe the difference isn't as big as we'd think. But as I said, I'm not convinced there isn't either, and from a logical stand point, the highest the pick the better.
Well its still better to have a choice. We really need to draft a forward and if we draft later maybe we're going to be ''stuck'' with good but relatively unneeded top defensemen like Murray or Dumba. I also trust Timmins has given extra attention to the top picks this year, I'd rather see him have the choice and not be ''stuck'' with someone he has question marks about.

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