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It's a good thing to finish strongly...

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Old
03-15-2012, 07:04 PM
  #51
habtastic
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I see some posts saying:

"We can't do anything to help the tank, the players and coach want to win" or something to that effect

umm..duh. I don't think anyone was thinking that we try to give the team home team (disadvantage, which of course now in bizzaro world, we are winning EVEN at home).

The desire to get that high pick is expressed as an outcome of the game not with the intention of trying to change the result. If that were true, we've done a shiiiite job trying to get them to win all season.

There are no positives to finishing the season strong in the face of a possibly high pick. They just do NOT matter. At the end of last year, we thought, no Markov, team had injuries, we still took Boston to game 7 so we'll DEFINITELY be in the top 5 of the conference next year with how good PK is and Emelin coming over (btw, both WERE awesome this season IMO), when we got Cole, boosted even more (and he obviously has had a great season).

Thus based on our "great end" to last season (only an OT game 7 loss kept us out), we predicted the world for this team, or many did. Too much can go wrong as we've seen. What a horrible season it's been despite the supposed effect of the previous year carrying over.

Yes, absolutely us doing well has shown me that we have lots of great pieces, but I knew that before. I didn't need the last couple of games to tell me Eller is going to be really good, that DD is the **** (I thought that at the start of the season), that Max is back and with Cole has been our MVP perhaps tied also with Price, who has continued to be a solid rock for this team (please don't argue that, he has), that Emelin is a beast and that we will have a great blueline in 2-3 years.

I knew all this stuff before the edmonton game. When we go to make the selection, who the hell is going to care about the fact we beat Edmonton, Van, got a point off Buffalo and beat Ottawa (maybe twice). Will it be awesome if we beat the isles? No. It will give another team a chance at picking the fwd we desperately need if we want to see Ws in the coming years. I just don't see how this late in the season, people want us to shoot for 11th when the alternative is getting a potential franchise player. Nobody is saying the players themselves shouldn't try to win (although playing the less talented ones does help), just that every win sucks, no matter how nice it feels to see the team win. When the playoffs start and all the hoopla begins, you'll feel empty. How would you feel about going into the playoffs next year or the year after with a lineup that includes our current budding stars + a Nail Yakupov or whoever? I imagine a lot better than seeing toronto get that pick.

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Old
03-15-2012, 07:27 PM
  #52
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This is a team that has underachieved and dealt with some terrible luck. As it stands right now we should be competing for a playoff spot next season.

I know alot of people don't want to hear this but in order to move forward, Plekanec has to go. Desharnais has proven to be a legitimate top 6 player and is definitely the superior offensive player to Plekanec. We desperately need a big, strong center who can play in the top six with Gionta as one of his wingers.

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Old
03-15-2012, 07:33 PM
  #53
Born in 1909
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It is not up to Montreal to lose games...

It is up to the opponent to WIN the games.

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Old
03-15-2012, 07:54 PM
  #54
Lshap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
It is not up to Montreal to lose games...

It is up to the opponent to WIN the games.
You're right. I actually said this a couple of weeks ago. It doesn't matter how many games we win, just as long as the other teams win one more than us.

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Old
03-15-2012, 08:05 PM
  #55
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why not finish strong?what a stupid question.this year has been nothing but one big development project involving most of our young players and prospects.and i think they ve done a great job considering the disaster this season has been.finishing strong will go a long ways toward building something solid next year.

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03-15-2012, 08:12 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by haburger View Post
why not finish strong?what a stupid question.this year has been nothing but one big development project involving most of our young players and prospects.and i think they ve done a great job considering the disaster this season has been.finishing strong will go a long ways toward building something solid next year.
how?

if we lose the remaining games (obviously not all) by a goal, is it THAT big of a difference in the development of people who should be in the AHL right now?. Consider how many games are left. Enough to bump us to 10th, not enough to change the development of so and so for next year. This whole winning a game increasing your confidence is on a short term scale, not when you know you are missing the playoffs. Are they letting us carry over the Ws and goals? Then I'm totally fine with it.

Also, yes it is up to the other teams to win. Unfortunately there's a reason those other teams are...those other teams. Somehow we seem to be proving how undeserving of our place in the standings we are. But if it's meant, we shouldn't lose, the other team should win (against us), then yes...that's totally the sentiment. I don't like the "idea" of us losing.


Last edited by habtastic: 03-15-2012 at 08:19 PM.
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Old
03-15-2012, 08:21 PM
  #57
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edit: sorry Leaf fans, wrong board... just realized I'm on the Leafs board

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Old
03-15-2012, 08:31 PM
  #58
habtastic
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
edit: sorry Leaf fans, wrong board... just realized I'm on the Leafs board


if this were a year ago, this thread might be the moral victories thread for boston fans

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:43 PM
  #59
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edit: sorry Leaf fans, wrong board... just realized I'm on the Leafs board
I just realized that a Boston fan has a habs avatar.

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03-15-2012, 09:53 PM
  #60
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While I was excited for a top 5 pick as much as anyone, I've come to the conclusion that it's actually a good thing we're playing well to end the year.
Can't disagree more. How often will the team, management, ownership, will accept finishing this low? When was the last time it happened? This is the perfect opportunity to do just that and still build on the positive you're listing in your post.

Underestimating the value of that pick (and picking sooner in the other rounds) is wrong, in my opinion.

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03-15-2012, 10:14 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Can't disagree more. How often will the team, management, ownership, will accept finishing this low? When was the last time it happened? This is the perfect opportunity to do just that and still build on the positive you're listing in your post.

Underestimating the value of that pick (and picking sooner in the other rounds) is wrong, in my opinion.
At which rank was selected Benoit Pouliot ?...

Now...

At which ranks were drafted Pacioretty ? Giroux ? Perron ? Eberle ? Perry ?. McDonagh ? And i won't talk about Datzyuk, among many, many others...

And why worry about the OTHER rounds... Habs are expert at selecting the guy who will fail the most .... Maxwell & Urqhuart instead of Bergeron and Lucic.


These guys are as good if not better than the top-3 picks of their own draft.

Stop panicking about the ****ing draft picks.

3 more months of that **** before the draft day...


Last edited by habitue*: 03-15-2012 at 10:20 PM.
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Old
03-15-2012, 10:24 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
At which ranks were drafted Pacioretty ? Giroux ? Perron ? Eberle ? Perry ?. McDonagh ? And i won't talk about Datzyuk, among many, many others...


These guys are as good if not better than the top-3 picks of their own draft.

Stop panicking about the ****ing draft picks.
You know it.

In 2005, Minny was thrilled to pick Pouliot at #4 while Kopitar sat in his seat until #11

Timmins has an excellent eye.

Last year we stole Beaulieu...

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Old
03-15-2012, 10:24 PM
  #63
Em Ancien
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
At which rank was selected Benoit Pouliot ?...

Now...

At which ranks were drafted Pacioretty ? Giroux ? Perron ? Eberle ? Perry ?. McDonagh ? And i won't talk about Datzyuk, among many, many others...

And why worry about the OTHER rounds... Habs are expert at selecting the guy who will fail the most .... Maxwell & Urqhuart instead of Bergeron and Lucic.


These guys are as good if not better than the top-3 picks of their own draft.

Stop panicking about the ****ing draft picks.

3 more months of that **** before the draft day...
Yeah, except you're more likely to get a very good to elite NHLer than a bust in the top 5 range, whereas getting a very good to elite NHLer rather than a middling to decent quality player in the 10-30 range is fairly rare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
You know it.

In 2005, Minny was thrilled to pick Pouliot at #4 while Kopitar sat in his seat until #11

Timmins has an excellent eye.

Last year we stole Beaulieu...
No Beaulieu dropped to us. Much like Chipchura dropped to us in 04. And Andrei Kostitsyn in 03.

First, let's not get ahead of ourselves when the guy hasn't played a single pro hockey game. Second, you don't always get the good ones that drop.

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Old
03-15-2012, 10:26 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
You know it.

In 2005, Minny was thrilled to pick Pouliot at #4 while Kopitar sat in his seat until #11

Timmins has an excellent eye.

Last year we stole Beaulieu...
Not really. He fell on Habs laps. Like Fowler and Etem for Anaheim the year before.

Did not need a draft genious to pick up a guy rated in the top 7 or 8...

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Old
03-15-2012, 10:27 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
Yeah, except you're more likely to get a very good to elite NHLer than a bust in the top 5 range, whereas getting a very good to elite NHLer rather than a middling to decent quality player in the 10-30 range is fairly rare.



No Beaulieu dropped to us. Much like Chipchura dropped to us in 04. And Andrei Kostitsyn in 03.

First, let's not get ahead of ourselves when the guy hasn't played a single pro hockey game. Second, you don't always get the good ones that drop.
talk about two nightmares...

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Old
03-15-2012, 10:27 PM
  #66
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Not really. He fell on Habs laps. Like Fowler and Etem for Anaheim the year before.

Did not need a draft genious to pick up a guy rated in the top 7 or 8...
I suppose I meant 'accidentally' stole.

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03-15-2012, 10:57 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
At which rank was selected Benoit Pouliot ?...

Now...

At which ranks were drafted Pacioretty ? Giroux ? Perron ? Eberle ? Perry ?. McDonagh ? And i won't talk about Datzyuk, among many, many others...

And why worry about the OTHER rounds... Habs are expert at selecting the guy who will fail the most .... Maxwell & Urqhuart instead of Bergeron and Lucic.


These guys are as good if not better than the top-3 picks of their own draft.

Stop panicking about the ****ing draft picks.

3 more months of that **** before the draft day...
I'm not so sure where in my post you read that low picks were automatics in every case, but let me explain something to you about odds... nah, never mind.

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03-15-2012, 11:04 PM
  #68
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I'm not so sure where in my post you read that low picks were automatics in every case, but let me explain something to you about odds... nah, never mind.
Never mind.

The 10 top picks this year would barely make the top 30 if you would put both the 2012 and 2011 draft together.

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03-15-2012, 11:18 PM
  #69
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Never mind.

The 10 top picks this year would barely make the top 30 if you would put both the 2012 and 2011 draft together.
I'm glad YOU can predict the future of those young men since, as you pointed out yourself in the post I've quoted, professional scouts don't seem to be able to.

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03-15-2012, 11:24 PM
  #70
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Holy smokes! The Leafs won a game!

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03-15-2012, 11:33 PM
  #71
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I'm OK if they finish strong but there's still 12 games left! At least wait till there's 5 games remaining to finish strong.

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03-15-2012, 11:59 PM
  #72
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how?

if we lose the remaining games (obviously not all) by a goal, is it THAT big of a difference in the development of people who should be in the AHL right now?. Consider how many games are left. Enough to bump us to 10th, not enough to change the development of so and so for next year. This whole winning a game increasing your confidence is on a short term scale, not when you know you are missing the playoffs. Are they letting us carry over the Ws and goals? Then I'm totally fine with it.

Also, yes it is up to the other teams to win. Unfortunately there's a reason those other teams are...those other teams. Somehow we seem to be proving how undeserving of our place in the standings we are. But if it's meant, we shouldn't lose, the other team should win (against us), then yes...that's totally the sentiment. I don't like the "idea" of us losing.
lol.what?you re talkin in circles dude.that last paragraph scares me.pk,patches,price,dd,eller,leblanc,emelin,diaz are ahl material? they are all getting a crucial and important year of LEARNING how to become a solid pro.which i hate to break it to people,takes time.

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03-16-2012, 12:10 AM
  #73
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Winning is good even when it's belated but let's not make too much of it. Teams that are hopelessly out of the running can play without feeling any pressure on them. As others have said, the most encouraging development has been the return of Markov.

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Old
03-16-2012, 12:13 AM
  #74
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I suppose I meant 'accidentally' stole.
Maybe you meant picking low hanging fruit when it's left on the tree?

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03-16-2012, 12:25 AM
  #75
habtastic
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lol.what?you re talkin in circles dude.that last paragraph scares me.pk,patches,price,dd,eller,leblanc,emelin,diaz are ahl material? they are all getting a crucial and important year of LEARNING how to become a solid pro.which i hate to break it to people,takes time.
They aren't AHL "material" as a disparagement, I'm saying in a healthy normal lineup they would be developing in the AHL. The idea that their development is being enhanced by a couple of games up and NOT 1st line minutes is flawed. If they were playing the bulk of the time, yeah fine, good experience and in fact I WISH RC would play them and bench the DD line who are doing a lot of damage.

Where did I say "pk,patches,price,dd,eller,leblanc,emelin,diaz " are AHL material? I was referring to the fact that these remaining games are not going to enhance the team for next year for guys like Leblanc THAAAT much. And certainly not if the alternative is getting a high draft pick. I will accept the tradeoff of them losing by a goal, still getting ice time and us drafting a high pick. I don't think Leblanc and Palushaj's careers will be marred. BTW, they've had all f'in season to get experience (whoever it is that you're saying is benefitting from development), so these last few games are not going to help much. Specifically most of the people you mentioned are IMO already developed, again, these games are not going to give them a huge boost if we win, into next season.

Perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying, which was:

winning these games/finishing strong does not mean **** for the "development" of said players. They are still getting the same amount of experience by losing. It will not create a losing mentality, if anything they'll be back stronger and again, I don't think they are going to cry about losing, they are playing for pride, that's it. They can be more proud next year by making the playoffs in the first place.

Also, sort of OT, but the AHL is a great place to learn how to become a pro. Ask our top goal scorer and the top scoring center.

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