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Which team would be best for a 16 year old forward and why?

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01-29-2012, 02:25 PM
  #1
hockeycrowd
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Which team would be best for a 16 year old forward and why?

New user, here. In the upcoming (2012-2013) season, which ohl team would be considered to be a good choice for a 16 year old forward? By looking at past stats, I see that a number of teams sit their 16 year olds a fair number of games. What information or stats could I use to help decide which team would be best? thnaks for your help.

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01-29-2012, 06:32 PM
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EvenSteven
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Originally Posted by hockeycrowd View Post
New user, here. In the upcoming (2012-2013) season, which ohl team would be considered to be a good choice for a 16 year old forward? By looking at past stats, I see that a number of teams sit their 16 year olds a fair number of games. What information or stats could I use to help decide which team would be best? thnaks for your help.

It's not so much what particular team is better, it's more an issue of strength of team that particular year.

Most 1st rounders will play most of the games with varying amounts of icetime.

If a team is a powerhouse that year, unless the 16 year old is an elite player now, then his icetime will not be very high with little or no PP and PK. He'll be a 4th liner, in and out of the lineup, or a 6th or 7th d-man at best. If a team is in a complete rebuilding mode, then the 16 year olds will usually play a ton including time on the PP and PK.

For instance, in Derek Roy's rookie year, Kitchener was in a complete rebuilding mode and as a result, was the first line centerman for most of the year. Same thing for Jeff Skinner in his rookie year. And they weren't the only 16 year olds in those years either. Steve Eminger played a lot in his rooklie year while Alex Aleardi and Shane Prince were regularly in the linerup in their rookie years as well.

On the other hand, when Kitchener hosted the Memorial Cup in '08, 1st rounder Cam Fowler didn't report and there was no other 16 year old who could crack the lineup as a regular. Michael Catenacci only played 2 games as a 16 year old that year.

On most other teams who are not a powerhouse, and not a bottom feeder, the 16 year olds usually play about the same around the league despite the team. Bottom line, on these types of teams, if the 16 year old is good enough, he'll get the icetime he deserves, especially if the team he's playing on wants to develop him properly - and most teams do.

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01-29-2012, 06:51 PM
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Teams that have given their 16 year olds quality Ice time this year:

Windsor
London
Erie
Peterborough
Guelph
Barrie

Teams that have given their 16 year olds "ok" ice time:

Brampton
Belleville
Soo
Sudbury
Kingston
Oshawa
Kitchener

Teams that haven't really used their 16 year olds:

Niagara
Mississauga
Ottawa
Sarnia
Owen Sound
Saginaw
Plymouth

Just my observation from the year. I would point out that the bottom group includes most of the teams that would consider themselves championship candidates this year. Again, don't take this as absolute fact....it's just the impression I've gotten this year.

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01-29-2012, 08:13 PM
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rick3652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitzman View Post
Teams that have given their 16 year olds quality Ice time this year:

Windsor
London
Erie
Peterborough
Guelph
Barrie

Teams that have given their 16 year olds "ok" ice time:

Brampton
Belleville
Soo
Sudbury
Kingston
Oshawa
Kitchener

Teams that haven't really used their 16 year olds:

Niagara
Mississauga
Ottawa
Sarnia
Owen Sound
Saginaw
Plymouth

Just my observation from the year. I would point out that the bottom group includes most of the teams that would consider themselves championship candidates this year. Again, don't take this as absolute fact....it's just the impression I've gotten this year.
First it does not matter which team plays them the most. If you are good enough you will play on ALL teams. Second you will have to go to the team that draft you.

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01-29-2012, 08:14 PM
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RyanHPscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitzman View Post
Teams that have given their 16 year olds quality Ice time this year:

Windsor
London
Erie
Peterborough
Guelph
Barrie

Teams that have given their 16 year olds "ok" ice time:

Brampton
Belleville
Soo
Sudbury
Kingston
Oshawa
Kitchener

Teams that haven't really used their 16 year olds:

Niagara
Mississauga
Ottawa
Sarnia
Owen Sound
Saginaw
Plymouth

Just my observation from the year. I would point out that the bottom group includes most of the teams that would consider themselves championship candidates this year. Again, don't take this as absolute fact....it's just the impression I've gotten this year.
This ^^ while fairly accurate, If you wanted to judge them, would have to do this over the course of multiple seasons, and look at different coaches. Any one season can't tell the story.

For one, the most important factor is how good the player is at the time, and what kind of role they can contribute. Some players aren't as "OHL ready" as others. So while they may develop into a good player; even better than some who jump into the league at 16, unless they're in a rebuilding system, chances are they won't get as much OHL experience as others at 16. Hunter Smith of Windsor for example has all the tools, awareness, and size to be a very good OHLer. His skating just isn't at a level that allows him to be a regular OHLer. He plays for a rebuilding team, so he gets limited ice in that situation.

Windsor for example is going to be much stronger next year. If a 16 year old isn't at the level that they can contribute enough, they wouldn't get much ice time.

Sarnia played their 16 year olds a ton last year, this year DeAngelo gets plenty of ice, Kujawinski got 4 shifts some games. DeAngelo is a slick skating puck handling defenceman. Sarnia doesn't have that type of player beyond what Basso does. So they tend to use him more frequently. If Kujawinski was a physical, hard on the boards grinder, he would have played a lot more becaues that's something Sarnia is lacking.

London is a risky situation. They really don't focus on age they go by who they need in the line-up. Not many people know much about Brett Welychka, but he's proven when the Knights roster was depleated he made a huge impact. But because they have too many, too experienced guys that bring what Welychka brings, he's sitting in the stands most games. he's a skilled player who could be a top 6 forward on some OHL teams. Same thing happened to Michael Moffat last year. He didn't just become a solid top 4 defenceman when he went to Kingston. He was that good before, but minus injuries, he got very limited ice. Bo Horvat is a lot more skilled than he shows at time in London. Because he plays a role that gives him good ice on a good team. He's a guy who can handle any sitaution, and becasue of that he plays on a team, where some skilled players would sit.

It also comes down to the wants of a player. Some 16 year olds would be happy to be in a situation like Mitchell Dempsey is in Plymouth. He gets limited ice, but he learns from veterans and has a chance to be an OHL Champion with 4 years of eligibility left. Others would much rather be on a team like the Guelph Storm. A team who's battling to finish between 6th and 8th, get a good amount of ice time right into the league, a little playoff experience, and move forward from there.

The right player would need to be in the right situation to be happy.

I know I didn't answer the question, but there is a few things to think about.

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01-29-2012, 08:18 PM
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Ward Cornell
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Originally Posted by hockeycrowd View Post
New user, here. In the upcoming (2012-2013) season, which ohl team would be considered to be a good choice for a 16 year old forward? By looking at past stats, I see that a number of teams sit their 16 year olds a fair number of games. What information or stats could I use to help decide which team would be best? thnaks for your help.
I don't equate "best" at all to icetime.
All kids vary in maturity and some 16 year old kids may not be able a regular shift (physically and mentally).
A lot of times as a 16 year old less is more in regards to overall development. The 17 year season is where the player should start to
really develop.

The best team is one that can evaluate what is the proper development schedule for a player.
It wouldn't be hard to talk to other parents in the hockey community who has son(s) play in the OHL in regards to what each team has to offer
besides on ice playing time. A lot of times it's the off-ice stuff that creates success (or non-success) on the ice!
I would also take a look into the coach and coaching staff for their track record into producing good players and good students in school.
I firmly believe off ice discipline/expectations creates a better player and person.

I'm not sure if Kitchener would rank at the top but I would be hard pressed to find another team that is better.


Last edited by Ward Cornell: 01-30-2012 at 08:10 AM.
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01-29-2012, 10:36 PM
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While it really depends on the skill level of the player, and the needs of the team.


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01-30-2012, 12:52 AM
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Like most have said, it all depends on the player and the team needs. I can use my favourite team, the Guelph Storm as an example.

Sometimes Hunter Garlent and Jason Dickinson look like the best players on the ice, and therefore they are both seeing lots of top 6 ice time with a regular shift on the PP.

Now Tyler Bertuzzi, it's clear he needs some work, but at the same time he brings it every shift. Therefore that allows the team to use him sparingly when they need a spark.

The last 16yo, Ben Harpur, is a defenceman that isn't even playing many games lately. It comes down to needs, and Guelph seems content with the 6 guys they trot out there on the blueline every game. Harpur gets to play a game here and there and the rest of the time he is in the press box focusing on the learning part of the game.

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01-30-2012, 09:22 AM
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Which team would be the best for a 16 year old forward and why?

Earlier there was a comment that stated that if you are good enough, regardless of age, you will play. This is not an accurate statement any longer. It is a business. Kids who have been drafted already have the ice time...a team who has lots of kids already drafted (like Niagara, as an example) get paid by the NHL clubs to develop them. It is in their best interest ($$$) to have them out there on PP and PK. Also, in this group are those who may not have been drafted but were signed after a strong camp at the NHL level - possible future AHL or maybe NHL player.

Next would be the 17 year olds. For most of the year they will be given their time on PK/PP. These are the possible next group of kids who will get icwe time.

Some teams try and have a balance of age groups (4 or 5 18 year olds, 4-5 17 year olds and so on) while others load up with older players as they take a run for the championship.

When looking for the right team (if you have that ability) you need to review the above situations and see where the team is at, what they are building towards, the current and future players status.

At the end of the day, 16 year olds will leardn in different ways. Some will learn by practicing and playing on a less than regular shift in games while others need to play. However, this is learning year for them all and points/pp/pk time is only secondary to being there and learning from many sources. It is all about their 17 year old season.

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01-30-2012, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by hockeycrowd View Post
New user, here. In the upcoming (2012-2013) season, which ohl team would be considered to be a good choice for a 16 year old forward? By looking at past stats, I see that a number of teams sit their 16 year olds a fair number of games. What information or stats could I use to help decide which team would be best? thnaks for your help.
Truthfully, I think your looking at it incorrectly.

First, unless your a top end player, you really have no options for where you will be drafted.

Secondly, the on ice factors will be the same. If the player plays well, he will get ice, if not, he wont. Most of the 16 year olds who are getting good ice are top picks who are performing well. If that performace falls off, then so will the ice time.

My advice to parents are always that the off ice situation is much, much more important then the on ice ones. Who are the billets? What are the coaches stance on education? How does the team put the best interests of the kid at the forefront? What programs are in place for education....

There are so many off ice questions that trump on ice ones.

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01-30-2012, 09:56 PM
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Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. My son does have an advisor/agent, but it is always nice to hear different thoughts and opinions.


Last edited by hockeycrowd: 01-31-2012 at 05:28 AM.
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01-31-2012, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitzman View Post
Teams that have given their 16 year olds quality Ice time this year:

Windsor
London
Erie
Peterborough
Guelph
Barrie

Teams that have given their 16 year olds "ok" ice time:

Brampton
Belleville
Soo
Sudbury
Kingston
Oshawa
Kitchener

Teams that haven't really used their 16 year olds:

Niagara
Mississauga
Ottawa
Sarnia
Owen Sound
Saginaw
Plymouth

Just my observation from the year. I would point out that the bottom group includes most of the teams that would consider themselves championship candidates this year. Again, don't take this as absolute fact....it's just the impression I've gotten this year.
The only one I'd really disagree with you there is Owen Sound. Nastasiuk and Bigras are both regulars now and get a regular shift. Nastasiuk was also the player of the week a couple of weeks ago. They definitely belong in the "OK" column.

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01-31-2012, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitzman View Post
Teams that have given their 16 year olds quality Ice time this year:

Windsor
London
Erie
Peterborough
Guelph
Barrie

Teams that have given their 16 year olds "ok" ice time:

Brampton
Belleville
Soo
Sudbury
Kingston
Oshawa
Kitchener

Teams that haven't really used their 16 year olds:

Niagara
Mississauga
Ottawa
Sarnia
Owen Sound
Saginaw
Plymouth

Just my observation from the year. I would point out that the bottom group includes most of the teams that would consider themselves championship candidates this year. Again, don't take this as absolute fact....it's just the impression I've gotten this year.
I agree with the Owen Sound comment. Their rookies do get a decent amount of minutes. I would also take Mississauga off that list, if you look at kids like Scott Teskey, and Jacob Graves they are starting to load up on a lot of ice time. You also take a look at Josh Burnside a rookie that they called up last weekend, he got a decent amount of shifts seeing as it was his first couple game in the O. When watching Saginaw really impressed with Nick Moutrey's game and how it has developed since playing in Minor Midget. He has really developed and he has started getting more ice time. Saginaw has 3 of their 95 forwards playing on a line together.

Again it comes down to the players and the coaches. If a kid shows the talent and potential and if the coach likes what they see the kid will get ice time. And every year the league changes so although teams like Peterborough, Barrie, Windsor etc might be giving their rookies good ice time it doesn't mean it will translate to the same story next season.

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02-03-2012, 12:43 PM
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Owen Sound's rookies are getting tonnes of ice......the biggest goal in Owen Sound history was scored last year by a first year player who seen 2nd line minutes all year....

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02-11-2012, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Tigers1992 View Post
Truthfully, I think your looking at it incorrectly.

First, unless your a top end player, you really have no options for where you will be drafted.

Secondly, the on ice factors will be the same. If the player plays well, he will get ice, if not, he wont. Most of the 16 year olds who are getting good ice are top picks who are performing well. If that performace falls off, then so will the ice time.

My advice to parents are always that the off ice situation is much, much more important then the on ice ones. Who are the billets? What are the coaches stance on education? How does the team put the best interests of the kid at the forefront? What programs are in place for education....

There are so many off ice questions that trump on ice ones.
Very true. Kids can develop very nicely with limited 1st year time because of the things youve mentioned.
The also can develop nicley with coaching at practice during the week and being around a strong,hard working group of vets all year who do the right things to prepare.
There are a lot of lessons to be learned and a lot of them arent during game action

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02-11-2012, 12:57 PM
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This ^^ while fairly accurate, If you wanted to judge them, would have to do this over the course of multiple seasons, and look at different coaches. Any one season can't tell the story.

For one, the most important factor is how good the player is at the time, and what kind of role they can contribute. Some players aren't as "OHL ready" as others. So while they may develop into a good player; even better than some who jump into the league at 16, unless they're in a rebuilding system, chances are they won't get as much OHL experience as others at 16. Hunter Smith of Windsor for example has all the tools, awareness, and size to be a very good OHLer. His skating just isn't at a level that allows him to be a regular OHLer. He plays for a rebuilding team, so he gets limited ice in that situation.

Windsor for example is going to be much stronger next year. If a 16 year old isn't at the level that they can contribute enough, they wouldn't get much ice time.

Sarnia played their 16 year olds a ton last year, this year DeAngelo gets plenty of ice, Kujawinski got 4 shifts some games. DeAngelo is a slick skating puck handling defenceman. Sarnia doesn't have that type of player beyond what Basso does. So they tend to use him more frequently. If Kujawinski was a physical, hard on the boards grinder, he would have played a lot more becaues that's something Sarnia is lacking.

London is a risky situation. They really don't focus on age they go by who they need in the line-up. Not many people know much about Brett Welychka, but he's proven when the Knights roster was depleated he made a huge impact. But because they have too many, too experienced guys that bring what Welychka brings, he's sitting in the stands most games. he's a skilled player who could be a top 6 forward on some OHL teams. Same thing happened to Michael Moffat last year. He didn't just become a solid top 4 defenceman when he went to Kingston. He was that good before, but minus injuries, he got very limited ice. Bo Horvat is a lot more skilled than he shows at time in London. Because he plays a role that gives him good ice on a good team. He's a guy who can handle any sitaution, and becasue of that he plays on a team, where some skilled players would sit.

It also comes down to the wants of a player. Some 16 year olds would be happy to be in a situation like Mitchell Dempsey is in Plymouth. He gets limited ice, but he learns from veterans and has a chance to be an OHL Champion with 4 years of eligibility left. Others would much rather be on a team like the Guelph Storm. A team who's battling to finish between 6th and 8th, get a good amount of ice time right into the league, a little playoff experience, and move forward from there.

The right player would need to be in the right situation to be happy.

I know I didn't answer the question, but there is a few things to think about.
Good post and I agree with most, but as Knight season tic holder I can say Welychka, since inserted into the lineup when injuries and players away at Xmas tournies hasnt looked backed, even after the acquisitions of McKegg and Watson. Hes been moved down to the 3rd line but getrs plenty of ice and hasnt been a scratch for more than a game in the last 2 plus months. Once he got his chance hes made it impossible to take him out.
The Knights are also playing rooks Anderson, Horvat (4th line minutes but both have really developed well since Sept- and occassional games get reg shifts)
Domi gets 2nd/3rd line minutes as well.
LAst year the Ruperts,AA, Tierney all got good time as rooks esp after trade deadline.

Next year maybe a different story for any Fs drafted here as theyll be returning a ton of very good talent. And regardless of that fact a kid would still have a chance to develop by being around a group of great players all year. If they work hard and have a good mindset. Its hard on kids not to play much for the first time in their careers but its the way it is. Domi has gotten more ice than BO in London but Id argue Bo has seen more improvemnet in his game (both are top end guys) I think as far as development it can be done with lots of PT , limited PT or somewhere in between as long as its a quality organization with good coaching/mentoring, open communication lines ect...


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02-11-2012, 02:44 PM
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Again, thanks everyone for your responses. Restated, if you had a 16 old son entering this years draft and you could choose which team he would play on. Which team would it be and why?

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02-11-2012, 04:21 PM
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Again, thanks everyone for your responses. Restated, if you had a 16 old son entering this years draft and you could choose which team he would play on. Which team would it be and why?
Is your son Ho-Sang? Haha JK

I can't speak to the Eastern conference as much but Plymouth, London, Kitchener are teams are teams that seem to have good reputations. Sarnia is in a unique situation as they have a new coach/GM and are "making a run" this season but next year we could really see what Beaulieu has "changed" as a few key contributors are on their way out.

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03-14-2012, 09:34 AM
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according to 560 Bear Radio for Owen Sound, Bigras as the most ice time in the OHL as a 16 year old Defencemen.

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03-14-2012, 09:42 AM
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Again, thanks everyone for your responses. Restated, if you had a 16 old son entering this years draft and you could choose which team he would play on. Which team would it be and why?
I know that Erie gives their 16 year olds lots of minutes even when they are not as bad as this year. Last year few 16 year olds on an Erie team that finished 5th and was at one point an honorable mention for the CHL top 10 saw 2nd line minutes. I know Erie does not have the best reputation but they have a strong young core in Connor Brown ( 2nd in rookie scoring, Stepen Harper (good chance he is a 1st round NHL pick in 2013), Adam Pelech (extremely underrated but will still be a 2nd round NHL pick) and Dane fox is solid as well. If Mcdavid is given exceptional status add him in there and if they have another strong draft this team could be one to watch out for.

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03-14-2012, 09:47 AM
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Again, thanks everyone for your responses. Restated, if you had a 16 old son entering this years draft and you could choose which team he would play on. Which team would it be and why?
It all depends on the skill set of said 16yr old. In London they have routinely baby stepped 16 yr olds. Starting out with 4th line minutes and working them in slowly. This season with Max Domi being the exception in the past decade. Some think there was a verbal agreement before that deal was made(with Kingston) as to how much playing time Max would receive. i can't comment on that either way. If you want said 16 yr old to get 2nd or 3rd line minutes..I wouldn't think London would be a good bet. If you want said 16yr old to be tutored in every aspect and brought along at a pace where they can grip every aspect of the game..London is the place to go in my opinion.

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03-15-2012, 07:43 PM
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Again, thanks everyone for your responses. Restated, if you had a 16 old son entering this years draft and you could choose which team he would play on. Which team would it be and why?
Windsor is always a great place to play speaking as a windsor fan and a windsorite. We are passionate about our hockey and I think it really unites our community after the 2 cup wins I am shamed to say a lot of people jumped on the band wagon but now that the team has dropped off you still see them showing support. When they won the cups our city was in a massive depression and the team gave everybody something to believe in and they have become a staple in this city for everybody ever since. Also Windsor is in a nice rebuild mode right now so a 16 year old could see a lot of ice time proven by the ice time seen by our 16 year old's right now in Jordan Maletta and Adam Bateman (although I believe they are now 17 somebody plz correct me if I am wrong) and also provided he is a good player.

Sorry if this reads just as rambling lol

and is it Ho-Sang lol jk jk

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03-16-2012, 06:01 AM
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You should be proud that any OHL team want to draft your kid. But with that said, I wouldn't base my choice on the amount of ice time he's going to get as a 16 year old, but rather investigate who has the best hockey programs. Some teams have better goalie programs than others as an example. So which team will be more effective at developing your child is the question if you ask me.

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03-16-2012, 08:06 AM
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Another big factor is off-ice, education program, tutors, billets, etc.

Remember, besides hockey your son will be going through some very formative years and it is important he is in an environment where the entire person can grow. Good luck.

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