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Old
03-14-2012, 11:18 PM
  #51
Johnny Hoxville
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Originally Posted by Flames Fanatic View Post
Personally I'd love one of Matt Carle, Carlo Colaiacovo, Barrett Jackman, Johnny Oduya or at worst, Hannan back. It's a pretty weak UFA crop this year.

Outside of the few big names like Semin, Suter, Parise, there isn't a lot of quality.
I'd like Feaster to target any one of Carle, Oduya or Grossman. I would be thrilled with anyone of those signings and I think its quite realistic to think we would land one of those players as well.

Personally I'd pass on Semin. As MR mentioned we are pretty much set on the wing for our top 6, and with how many young players/rookies we have knocking at the door I feel its important to give them quality minutes in the NHL if we want their development to continue. This will also helps us cap wise. I'm not really a fan of Semin, but regardless unless we are signing Parise I don't see the need to sign any other forwards for next season.

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03-15-2012, 12:05 AM
  #52
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The only FA's im super interested in are Suter or Parise.

Id love us to dump a truck full of money on Suter as I feel his addition would really compliment are depth up front, and really round out the defense.

- I would still like to see Stajan dealt if possible and roll with these lines:


Tanguay - Cammalleri - Iginla
Glencross - Jokinen - Moss
Baertschi - Backlund - Horak
Comeau - Jones - Jackman

Bouwmeester - Suter
Giordano - Butler
Brodie - Hannan/Smith

Kiprusoff
Irving

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Old
03-15-2012, 09:52 AM
  #53
Johnny Hoxville
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I still want Stajan dealt to. Ideally, if he plays well from now til the end of the season he may fetch us a 2nd round pick at the draft from a team needing to reach the cap floor. He has been playing well as of late, but he is still not a #1 centre. We still will have Jokinen, Backlund, Horak, Byron, Jones and maybe Rheinhart later in the year. Considering the cap relief of Stajan's contract and if he can bring us a decent draft pick I would make that move.

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03-15-2012, 10:06 AM
  #54
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we land one tope 4 dman (hopefully suter) we will have a very solid team

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Old
03-15-2012, 10:17 AM
  #55
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I still want Stajan dealt to. Ideally, if he plays well from now til the end of the season he may fetch us a 2nd round pick at the draft from a team needing to reach the cap floor. He has been playing well as of late, but he is still not a #1 centre. We still will have Jokinen, Backlund, Horak, Byron, Jones and maybe Rheinhart later in the year. Considering the cap relief of Stajan's contract and if he can bring us a decent draft pick I would make that move.
Hopefully stajan keeps it up and we can move him. But I'll hold my judgement on that until the end of the year.

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03-15-2012, 01:04 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Xelstyle View Post
Some more fireworks in the Flames' forum? Impossible.

Anyways would like to see Grossmann and only Grossmann realistically. Anybody else is a pipe dream or a waste of time save for a few random players I wouldn't mind.
Personally I think Grossman lacks footspeed and while he is a decent bottom pairing, I'd rather have an offensive mobile skater from ufa.

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03-15-2012, 01:15 PM
  #57
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Hopefully stajan keeps it up and we can move him. But I'll hold my judgement on that until the end of the year.
Think we're further ahead if Stajan can keep up his play and contribute in a top 6 role.

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03-15-2012, 01:31 PM
  #58
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Think we're further ahead if Stajan can keep up his play and contribute in a top 6 role.
Exactly, but that will make it a tough decision if he really keeps rolling. Our top six is starting to look crowded and that is not the way you want to structure a team.

If stajan keeps up his level play through the season and has good PO run I would rather keep him, sign moss, and deal Cammy...Maybe, I cannot say for sure yet.

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03-15-2012, 02:16 PM
  #59
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I think what we've learned consistently about Matt Stajan is that he is a tweener. He's not quite good enough to be a top 6 centre but he's not bad enough to be a #3 guy. I'm really happy for him that he's finding his game again, but he is playing Iggy and Tangs, granted he's been holding his own. I just want to stay grounded about the situation, he's hot right now but I think moving him in a deal of value to the Flames makes sense (good draft pick and cap relief), but letting him go for nothing is not worth it on the Flames part.

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Old
03-15-2012, 02:46 PM
  #60
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Exactly, but that will make it a tough decision if he really keeps rolling. Our top six is starting to look crowded and that is not the way you want to structure a team.
What?

So in your opinion, having 9 (or 12!) top 6 forwards is a bad thing???

I am amazed at how many people think it's a bad idea to have talented players on the "3rd" line.

IMO, having Baertschi and Cammalleri on the 3rd line would be outstanding.

Basertschi - Backlund - Cammalleri could be one of the best 3rd lines in the NHL, maybe the best.

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03-15-2012, 03:07 PM
  #61
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What?

So in your opinion, having 9 (or 12!) top 6 forwards is a bad thing???

I am amazed at how many people think it's a bad idea to have talented players on the "3rd" line.

IMO, having Baertschi and Cammalleri on the 3rd line would be outstanding.

Basertschi - Backlund - Cammalleri could be one of the best 3rd lines in the NHL, maybe the best.
It's definitly very subjective when coming up with an ideal way to structure your roster. When I look at structuring a forward roster the ideal way I would want to do things is like this:

1A/1B lines: Both are pretty balanced and there is elite talent on both lines. Primary point totals come from these top two lines
3rd line: Total shutdown line that can chip in every once and a while. But this lines primary goal is to shutdown the oposition and make their life miserable.
4th line: Energy line. Provides you with fights, lots of grit, but enough skill to not get burned in tough situations.

I feel that if players have specific roles it really helps them solidify the lineup and chemistry. Players know what they are responisble for and it's easier to define what is wrong and what is right with their game.

Anyways...You make a great point. Bartschi-Backlund-Cammy would probably be one of the best 3rd lines in the league. So I wouldn't be adverse to seeing it happen, it's just not they way I would do things. But it could very well work out better then what I would do.

I'd rather package Stajan/Cammy with Backlund/Horak grab an even better top 6 talent and sign a guy like Stoll for the 3rd line.

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03-15-2012, 03:15 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
I still want Stajan dealt to. Ideally, if he plays well from now til the end of the season he may fetch us a 2nd round pick at the draft from a team needing to reach the cap floor. He has been playing well as of late, but he is still not a #1 centre. We still will have Jokinen, Backlund, Horak, Byron, Jones and maybe Rheinhart later in the year. Considering the cap relief of Stajan's contract and if he can bring us a decent draft pick I would make that move.
You can't move Stajan until Jokinen is re-signed, and even then it might be a stretch. You always look for strength down the middle and the Flames do have that right now. If you move Stajan at the draft and then Jokinen doesn't sign, you have a huge hole to fill. Unless the Flames are going to bring in a couple of centers I think you sit on Stajan and hope his play continues.

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03-15-2012, 03:20 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
It's definitly very subjective when coming up with an ideal way to structure your roster. When I look at structuring a forward roster the ideal way I would want to do things is like this:

1A/1B lines: Both are pretty balanced and there is elite talent on both lines. Primary point totals come from these top two lines
3rd line: Total shutdown line that can chip in every once and a while. But this lines primary goal is to shutdown the oposition and make their life miserable.
4th line: Energy line. Provides you with fights, lots of grit, but enough skill to not get burned in tough situations.

I feel that if players have specific roles it really helps them solidify the lineup and chemistry. Players know what they are responisble for and it's easier to define what is wrong and what is right with their game.

Anyways...You make a great point. Bartschi-Backlund-Cammy would probably be one of the best 3rd lines in the league. So I wouldn't be adverse to seeing it happen, it's just not they way I would do things. But it could very well work out better then what I would do.

I'd rather package Stajan/Cammy with Backlund/Horak grab an even better top 6 talent and sign a guy like Stoll for the 3rd line.
Fair enough, and I agree with you.

My only comment to your points would be that, with the current Flame lineup, the 2nd line is the shutdown line. So that being the case, why not go with a fast, offensive line with the 3rd?

Anyway, nice to be in a position to have some decent depth and choices.

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Old
03-15-2012, 03:35 PM
  #64
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Fair enough, and I agree with you.

My only comment to your points would be that, with the current Flame lineup, the 2nd line is the shutdown line. So that being the case, why not go with a fast, offensive line with the 3rd?

Anyway, nice to be in a position to have some decent depth and choices.
My concern is Cammy TBH. I think he'd have a hard time being on the 3rd line.

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03-15-2012, 03:44 PM
  #65
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My concern is Cammy TBH. I think he'd have a hard time being on the 3rd line.
Why do the lines have to be labelled? If all are successful, why can't they just be the team? You don't have to put it that Iggy is line one because sometimes his line isn't and I would think that in the dressing room they are all just lines as the top 9 shares fairly even icetime. I agree your bottom 3 should bring grit and low icetime energy, but what if the flames rocked a solid top 9 instead of a solid top 6?

I would think having 3 lines capable of producing on a regular basis all the while being defensively responsible makes more sense. That leaves more room for the inevitable error having a younger team brings.

Its just like having two goalies you can play on any given night or a 5th and 6th defense-man you're not afraid to play against top lines.(T.J Brodie) having depth is what makes a team great and I don't think Cammo would be opposed to playing with a passing wizard like Baertschi.

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03-15-2012, 03:45 PM
  #66
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My concern is Cammy TBH. I think he'd have a hard time being on the 3rd line.
I think as long as he gets his minutes and 1st unit PP time, there is no reason why he should be.

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03-15-2012, 06:30 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
It's definitly very subjective when coming up with an ideal way to structure your roster. When I look at structuring a forward roster the ideal way I would want to do things is like this:

1A/1B lines: Both are pretty balanced and there is elite talent on both lines. Primary point totals come from these top two lines
3rd line: Total shutdown line that can chip in every once and a while. But this lines primary goal is to shutdown the oposition and make their life miserable.
4th line: Energy line. Provides you with fights, lots of grit, but enough skill to not get burned in tough situations.

I feel that if players have specific roles it really helps them solidify the lineup and chemistry. Players know what they are responisble for and it's easier to define what is wrong and what is right with their game.

Anyways...You make a great point. Bartschi-Backlund-Cammy would probably be one of the best 3rd lines in the league. So I wouldn't be adverse to seeing it happen, it's just not they way I would do things. But it could very well work out better then what I would do.

I'd rather package Stajan/Cammy with Backlund/Horak grab an even better top 6 talent and sign a guy like Stoll for the 3rd line.
Hasn't the OMG line been used as a "shutdown/make lives difficult for opposition's top players" line? I'd argue that's more effective to have the two way play on multiple lines, with balanced scoring throughout. If we can keep the puck in the opponent's zone, makes playing defense easier.

I think the biggest issue when the comment of having "crowded" top 6 is the fact that there are some set chemistry that we should keep like Glencross/Jokinen/Moss (assuming we resign him) and Tanguay/Iginla.

Not saying we can't break up those matchups, but when you have a guy like Stajan and Cammy who tends to fall under the radar if they're not playing with the top line, it does start difficult getting the best production out of all of them. Ideally one of the two just carry a line alone where we could get the true depth.

As for Stajan, wouldn't really mind keeping him. Injuries this year have really demonstrated how helpful a guy like Stajan (when hungry) is being able to go allover the lineup. I don't see an imminent need to open up a spot since a lot of the predicted lineups fit a fair number of vets and young players.

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03-15-2012, 09:33 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
You can't move Stajan until Jokinen is re-signed, and even then it might be a stretch. You always look for strength down the middle and the Flames do have that right now. If you move Stajan at the draft and then Jokinen doesn't sign, you have a huge hole to fill. Unless the Flames are going to bring in a couple of centers I think you sit on Stajan and hope his play continues.
True, but by all indications it sounds as though the plan is to resign Jokinen. I fully expect him to be back next year. If for some reason negotiations break down and it appears that Feaster will not be able to sign Jokinen around the time of the draft, then you absolutely keep him. His value to Flames would be much higher than the return of any marginal trade would be. Like I said, I want to stay grounded about the situation. 85% of Flames fans have wanted to trade this guy about 2 months after he signed his contract. I'm trying not to get to excited about his hot streak. Keeping Jokinen in the mix, and having Backlund potentially pass Stajan on the depth charts next year would drop Stajan back down to the 3rd, which in that role he has proven to be largely ineffective.

And I also agree with Gnome's format of his ideal lines. The best teams in the NHL are built that way. The team that Sutter built was basically made of one ok top line, and the balance was a roster full of players that were career 2nd to 3rd liners. My ideal team is also one that has 2 top lines loaded with as much offensive talent as possible, a good 3rd shut down line, and a typical engery line that can cycle and retain possesion of the puck.

The Flames do have elements of this now, but I think what Gnome was elluding to was that there are legitimate top 6 players and then there are bottom 6 guys. Top 6 players get more minutes and are put in more situations to produce offensively. When you start putting top 6 players in the bottom 6, you are putting them in situations where they are not going to play to their potential and ultimately a situation that they will fail in (ie. Stajan on the 4th, Cammy on the Habs). IMO, you need to put players in the role that they can play to their potential to succeed in. So when he is saying the top 6 is getting crowed, he is referring to players not being used properly. While you want depth guys that can score, I think Gnome's format is a fairly proven one when it comes to having a successful team.

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Old
03-16-2012, 09:42 AM
  #69
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Hasn't the OMG line been used as a "shutdown/make lives difficult for opposition's top players" line? I'd argue that's more effective to have the two way play on multiple lines, with balanced scoring throughout. If we can keep the puck in the opponent's zone, makes playing defense easier.

I think the biggest issue when the comment of having "crowded" top 6 is the fact that there are some set chemistry that we should keep like Glencross/Jokinen/Moss (assuming we resign him) and Tanguay/Iginla.

Not saying we can't break up those matchups, but when you have a guy like Stajan and Cammy who tends to fall under the radar if they're not playing with the top line, it does start difficult getting the best production out of all of them. Ideally one of the two just carry a line alone where we could get the true depth.

As for Stajan, wouldn't really mind keeping him. Injuries this year have really demonstrated how helpful a guy like Stajan (when hungry) is being able to go allover the lineup. I don't see an imminent need to open up a spot since a lot of the predicted lineups fit a fair number of vets and young players.
That's what worries me about having too many of those top six players. You put a guy like Cammy on the 3rd line, he becomes unhappy with where he fits in the lineup and then ultimatly he becomes unproductive. That is why I like more defined roles and structure in the lineup. Otherwise you get too many guys competing to do the same thing.

But you are right. If a guy like Cammy can lead his line and he can make some magic with a kid like Bartschi then there should be no issues.

Plus the OMG line is a great TW line that puts up points and is used against other teams top lines.

I just don't want anyone in the lineup to become complacent and unmotivated. That has, historically, been an issue with this squad IMO. But right now they are playing lights out so...meh.


Last edited by The Gnome: 03-16-2012 at 09:52 AM.
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03-16-2012, 09:54 AM
  #70
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Why do the lines have to be labelled? If all are successful, why can't they just be the team? You don't have to put it that Iggy is line one because sometimes his line isn't and I would think that in the dressing room they are all just lines as the top 9 shares fairly even icetime. I agree your bottom 3 should bring grit and low icetime energy, but what if the flames rocked a solid top 9 instead of a solid top 6?

I would think having 3 lines capable of producing on a regular basis all the while being defensively responsible makes more sense. That leaves more room for the inevitable error having a younger team brings.

Its just like having two goalies you can play on any given night or a 5th and 6th defense-man you're not afraid to play against top lines.(T.J Brodie) having depth is what makes a team great and I don't think Cammo would be opposed to playing with a passing wizard like Baertschi.
my above comment should suffice for this as well. It can work the way it is for sure. But you have to have the right players with the right attitude. A guy like Cammy worries me, but we'll just have to wait and see.

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03-16-2012, 10:35 AM
  #71
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Back on topic......Hoping Leland has a big game today

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