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Old
03-17-2012, 03:47 PM
  #276
Stoneman89
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Yeah I'm sure Renney tells Eager not to hit anything, play like a *****, and fight less than Gagner.

jebus JFJ was probably more effective.

Eager seems to be injured half the time.

I guess it was Renneys plan to have Eager smoked by the rookie Tulopov in TC as well. I guess Tulopov didn't get the Renney memo not to play physical.

Eager looked like crap and unprepared from the start of this season. Classic example of a player that came in soft and wasn't ready to play.
Classic example of an ignorant post. Eager came to camp fine, and had an unfortunate incident where he suffered a concussion in TC. It happens, and it can happen to any player, not just tough guys. These types of things really have no timeline - they are all individually based. Just ask Sid Crosby. Obviously he was not up to speed when he came back after missing a good chunk of time off, who would be? Yes, he's had a couple other injury issues this year, not sure how he could avoid those. But when healthy, I think we can all see what he can do, and that is to provide a physical presence (when allowed) and contribute offensively.

And to say there is no chance of any reduction of his physical role by Renney, either stated or implied is ridiculous. Ask Darcy Hordichuk, he of the 2 minutes ice time in games we are being blown out of, and having players being run at. Pretty obvious Renney likes his team to play within the lines, hoping the league officials call the game the way he hopes it will be called. Get a reality check.

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03-17-2012, 04:11 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Yeah I'm sure Renney tells Eager not to hit anything, play like a *****, and fight less than Gagner.

jebus JFJ was probably more effective.

Eager seems to be injured half the time.

I guess it was Renneys plan to have Eager smoked by the rookie Tulopov in TC as well. I guess Tulopov didn't get the Renney memo not to play physical.

Eager looked like crap and unprepared from the start of this season. Classic example of a player that came in soft and wasn't ready to play.
I have seen Eager on other teams and i have never ever seen him this scaled back and passive. I think that has everything to do with the coach putting the shackles on him and telling him to scale it down or he'll be benched, i highly doubt that Eager's on ice personality changed overnight. It defeats the whole purpose of bringing him in and Hordichuk for that matter who gets virtually no playing time and when he does, he doesn't get involved physically for the most part. This team including these players are a reflection of their coach and it doesn't matter who Tambellini brings in. I believe that even Lucic would be a fairy under Renney's watch.

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03-17-2012, 04:19 PM
  #278
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See I disagree.

Eager is never going to be heralded as the best defensive forward on any team. He may be a liability, but thats because he has a different role. His role is to be a pest and play physical for his team.

He did that well in SJ when he was allowed to do his thing. Did the same in Chicago. He also wasn't as bad in either of those two teams defensively (nearly had a 1:1 GVA-TKA ratio for both teams).

I'm not a Tambo fan at all, but this one is on Renney. If you don't want your young stars to get run, then give some rope to the deterrents you have on the roster. If he can't maximize what he has on the roster, then situations like this will continually pop up.

Especially now, we're the 29th place team in the NHL, weather your a liability or not, if you can help protect the young guys, you do so. I don't care if Eager was a liability or not, a message should've been sent after Hall got nailed. Not the obligatory fight, but a response physically from the players. Peckham can get the **** off this team because unlike Eager he got a chance to respond and didn't. But from now on Renney has to be willing for guys like Eager to do their thing. Regardless of the consequences on the scoreboard.

There is a reason guys like Cooke, Asham, Goddard were on the Pittsburgh roster for so long. There was a reason they were actually successful in their roles. They were allowed to do it up to a certain level. Keeping a guy on the roster, but not letting him do his thing won't have an effect.
Again there needs to be some context. Eager may be passable defensively if he is playing against the other teams 3rd and 4th liners. That doesn't mean he won't be a liability when matched up against the other teams 1st and 2nd line players. I know you won't make that argument because its a fallacy.

How can Renney be expected to play toughness in the top 6 when his options are Petrell, Jones, Hartikainen and Eager?

You don't think that sad statement for top 6 grit falls at the feet of Tambo?

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03-17-2012, 04:22 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I have seen Eager on other teams and i have never ever seen him this scaled back and passive. I think that has everything to do with the coach putting the shackles on him and telling him to scale it down or he'll be benched, i highly doubt that Eager's on ice personality changed overnight. It defeats the whole purpose of bringing him in and Hordichuk for that matter who gets virtually no playing time and when he does, he doesn't get involved physically for the most part. This team including these players are a reflection of their coach and it doesn't matter who Tambellini brings in. I believe that even Lucic would be a fairy under Renney's watch.
Eagers concussion issues played a large part in his passiveness. He wasn't hitting much at all until after Christmas.

He has had some games since then where he had a limited amount of effectiveness...hit some people skated hard and made poor puck decisions.

Making these statements that Renney has instructed players not to hit is ridiculous.

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03-17-2012, 04:29 PM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I have seen Eager on other teams and i have never ever seen him this scaled back and passive. I think that has everything to do with the coach putting the shackles on him and telling him to scale it down or he'll be benched, i highly doubt that Eager's on ice personality changed overnight. It defeats the whole purpose of bringing him in and Hordichuk for that matter who gets virtually no playing time and when he does, he doesn't get involved physically for the most part. This team including these players are a reflection of their coach and it doesn't matter who Tambellini brings in. I believe that even Lucic would be a fairy under Renney's watch.
If anything between Hordi and Eager Ben has been given every opportunity to succeed here and does virtually nothing physical with his minutes.

Eager has 3.5 TIMES MORE minutes than Hordichuk yet has similar total hits and Hordi has gone to the octagon 7 times to Eagers pathetic 4times.

In otherwards Hordi, granted only 30% of Eagers toi has done more with it.

Which is a disgrace on Eagers part and nobody else.

I don't think too much of either player but at least Hordichuk showed up. I'm not sure what Eager's doing.

How do you explain Hordichuk doing his job with limited minutes and Eager bringing no semblence of a physical game?

Maybe its all injury related, who knows, but to blame Renney for Eager not doing his job with ample minutes in which to do it is puzzling.

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03-17-2012, 04:30 PM
  #281
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I do that every time he has the puck between the circles. I thought for sure he had that goal on the toe drag play, I started cheering before he crossed the blue line, but it looked like he had the lane and he rarely misses that. Ive never been so confident that a player was gonna score since probably Joe Sakic. I remember Sakic just never seemed to miss those. Nice to have a shooter on our side for once, Hopkins isn't too far behind either.
I completely agree.

Every time I see Eberle in a prime scoring position I find myself being surprised that he didn't score. The kid is money.

He is a special player.

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03-17-2012, 04:41 PM
  #282
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I find the Eberle-Sakic comparison interesting for the fact that I find Eberle has a deceptive wrist shot that reminds me of Sakic. It doesn't matter what foot he's on or his balance or anything, he's getting a good accurate wrister off.

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03-17-2012, 04:54 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
Eagers concussion issues played a large part in his passiveness. He wasn't hitting much at all until after Christmas.

He has had some games since then where he had a limited amount of effectiveness...hit some people skated hard and made poor puck decisions.

Making these statements that Renney has instructed players not to hit is ridiculous.
I don't think that he instruct Eager to not hit but i think that it's just a part of the non-agressive, not to lose approach that Renney employs, i think that it affects all the players. I feel that Eager is looking over his shoulder as if he'll be benched if he gets too crazy out there but he was brought in to be a little crazy even if it leads to some penalties, he's supposed to be a tone setter and hasn't been.
Some of that falls on the player but as i said before, he has never been this passive under other coaches so i think it's natural to assume that coaching is playing a role.

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03-17-2012, 05:39 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I don't think that he instruct Eager to not hit but i think that it's just a part of the non-agressive, not to lose approach that Renney employs, i think that it affects all the players. I feel that Eager is looking over his shoulder as if he'll be benched if he gets too crazy out there but he was brought in to be a little crazy even if it leads to some penalties, he's supposed to be a tone setter and hasn't been.
Some of that falls on the player but as i said before, he has never been this passive under other coaches so i think it's natural to assume that coaching is playing a role.
Well I guess its natural here to think that where Renney is the alledged source of all player limitation.

Of course what you and many others are engaging is assumption and one that puts the coach squarely at fault for the players own limitations or lack of performance.

The actual on ice play tells us Eager sucks this year. I would say thats on him unless anybody has proof of some mysterious directive for him to not play his game.

Anyhoo, lets actually consult what Renney states on the matter rather than some empty conjecture:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2011/12/0...ick-for-oilers

Quote:
“Lets not forget the start he had, he had a tough start, getting a concussion at training camp that kept him out for a month,” said Oilers head coach Tom Renney.

“He’s catching up with everybody, certainly from a fitness perspective and jumping into the lineup and try to catch up is not easy to do.”

Once back to form, the Oilers are counting on Eager to fill a similar role to Darcy Hordichuk.

“He has to earn opportunities, use his size and strength, be physical and be prepared to protect himself and his teammates,” Renney said. “He still has to show me that he can play in any number of places in the lineup. Its’ a matter of trying to gain traction and it’s up to us to give him an opportunity to gain that.”


Last edited by Replacement: 03-17-2012 at 06:05 PM.
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Old
03-17-2012, 08:03 PM
  #285
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I agree with Replacement to a point but renney is at fault for how he utilizes his toughness or fails to.

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03-18-2012, 12:40 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I guess it was Renneys plan to have Eager smoked by the rookie Tulopov in TC as well. I guess Tulopov didn't get the Renney memo not to play physical.

Eager looked like crap and unprepared from the start of this season. Classic example of a player that came in soft and wasn't ready to play.
I still can't believe this post.

You shouldn't be doing things that can injure your own teammates at training camp like going for a Kronwall when the tempo of the scrimmage doesn't demand it.

Eager had a concussion. Wasn't it you that was saying that our management should take runs at players whose values have diminished after returning from concussions because it can take time for their form to recover? Even if it wasn't, history has shown us repeatedly that concussions impact players' games.

I can't understand why you're unable to give Eager leeway for a condition that has no determinable timeline and enduring effects on player performance.

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03-18-2012, 12:47 AM
  #287
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I still can't believe this post.

You shouldn't be doing things that can injure your own teammates at training camp like going for a Kronwall when the tempo of the scrimmage doesn't demand it.

Eager had a concussion. Wasn't it you that was saying that our management should take runs at players whose values have diminished after returning from concussions because it can take time for their form to recover? Even if it wasn't, history has shown us repeatedly that concussions impact players' games.

I can't understand why you're unable to give Eager leeway for a condition that has no determinable timeline and enduring effects on player performance.
Gagner and Hemsky have been given the opportunity to hide behind their early season injuries all year by several posters...

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03-18-2012, 10:09 AM
  #288
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I still can't believe this post.

You shouldn't be doing things that can injure your own teammates at training camp like going for a Kronwall when the tempo of the scrimmage doesn't demand it.
Odd comment because TC scrimmages can often feature some hardcore action involving individuals that want to make an impression. In sports from Hockey to football preseason is often viewed as the most unpleasant time of year and not only due to the extensive physical demands but the intensity of challenging play that goes on.

Quote:
Eager had a concussion. Wasn't it you that was saying that our management should take runs at players whose values have diminished after returning from concussions because it can take time for their form to recover? Even if it wasn't, history has shown us repeatedly that concussions impact players' games
.That argument was clearly stated re: players that were formerly good or valuable players prior to the injury. If you think Eager is in that camp we're not going to have much of a discussion here. Eager's simply a player thats an also ran fill for the role. Somebody you get if you don't have anything in the capacity and can't retain better. Eager is a fallback position. Nothing more. Played with around 4 teams over the last couple years. When last seen was helping his team get ousted in the playoffs by blowing a critical game with his own penalty taking idiocy. A guy thats supposed to be an antagonist that ended up on the fail side of even that equation. When a guy thats supposed to be there to draw and entice penalties ends up being the culprit he either doesn't understand, or doesn't know how to employ the script. Even though he's been in the league for years. This is a player with a lack of discipline, lack of self control, that will hurt his own team more than anybody else.

Quote:
I can't understand why you're unable to give Eager leeway for a condition that has no determinable timeline and enduring effects on player performance.
Because I expect somebody thats in the business of being a physical player and enforcer to have his head on a swivel at all times. The guy that we recruited to protect our team didn't even make it through training camp. That doesn't give me a lot of confidence where his head was at before, or after the concussion. If you can't even protect yourself its not going to help the team a lot is it?
Additionally Eager has become this years version of Brule. Concussion, back injury, healthy scratch. Eager has been anything but a physical player here.
Also the dimension of his physical play is overrated. He's been very inconsistent in this regard for most of his career. Eager has the supreme go ballistic meltdowns that everybody remembers but this is a player that can go weeks with not even getting into a physical groove on ice. He rarely seems to find any sort of balance in his play.

What we are getting from this player is what there is. It won't change much.


Last edited by Replacement: 03-18-2012 at 10:14 AM.
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Old
03-18-2012, 10:21 AM
  #289
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Gagner and Hemsky have been given the opportunity to hide behind their early season injuries all year by several posters...
I don't know that I've made one excuse for Hemsky. He's had a brutal season but even he has had pts where he dialed it up and started to look better, look like a player again.
Gagner of course has had this as well. In fairness to Gagner he's a complimentary player. He benefits from somebody on his line that is going and that can work a good cycle. We have a lot of players in the backstretch that are dialed out and don't give a ****.

But the bigger question is what segment of games at all this year has it looked like Eager is a valuable player?

When did it look like that last year, or the year before? When in fact has Eager been the player that people somehow want him to be here?

Prepare to be continually disappointed. Ben Eager is a bust of a hockey player. We seem good at attracting them.

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