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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread VIII

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Old
03-17-2012, 04:23 PM
  #51
Nex06
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Originally Posted by JBernierFan View Post
Or is it that he's getting old?
Bingo.

I mean come on, this board was *****ing for a long time, how Handzus was playing well in San Jose and that we need such player. And now when he isn't playing that well, it's because of the club change? I don't think that holds water.

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Old
03-17-2012, 04:37 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I don't see Carter remaining a wing doubly so if you consider the fact that he would give us three exceptionally skilled centers to go with our 3 exceptionally skilled RW's and will leave us only the need to fill in two legitimate LW sniper types. Imagine having Carter Kopitar and MR centering Brown Toffi and Williams, throw in the occasional Gagne King etc on LW and a true first line sniper and we are the scariest team in the league imo.

Carter is a good win and has done as well as expected here so far but consider this, he is an even better center. MR is too and given the offseason to regroup we could be a team that puts 3 ubber talented different styled lines that would be truly difficult to defend.

Our fourth line is going to be truly scary already. I think we are that LW sniper away from greatness.

Carter on wing is good but Carter at C with another top line LW wow.
The Kings have already proved the centers can't carry lines. Richards was playing pretty poor with non top six forward wingers.

So unless Dean signs, Ray I am 70 years old,Semin, or Parise. I would like Carter to remain at Wing. Gagne is going to get hurt again next year as well(you just have to expect that).

Toffoli, unless he has an amazing camp is headed for Manchester next year.

Carter's game is much better as a trigger man, you would need a winger that can set him up. If you are going to have him play Center.

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03-17-2012, 04:44 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I don't see Carter remaining a wing doubly so if you consider the fact that he would give us three exceptionally skilled centers to go with our 3 exceptionally skilled RW's and will leave us only the need to fill in two legitimate LW sniper types. Imagine having Carter Kopitar and MR centering Brown Toffi and Williams, throw in the occasional Gagne King etc on LW and a true first line sniper and we are the scariest team in the league imo.

Carter is a good win and has done as well as expected here so far but consider this, he is an even better center. MR is too and given the offseason to regroup we could be a team that puts 3 ubber talented different styled lines that would be truly difficult to defend.

Our fourth line is going to be truly scary already. I think we are that LW sniper away from greatness.

Carter on wing is good but Carter at C with another top line LW wow.
I like the idea of having Kopitar/Carter/Richards down the middle.

But that leaves us thin on wing, and cuts Loktionov out of the picture. Gagne can't be relied on, and Toffoli probably isn't going to be an impact player right away. We'd have to add 2 top six wingers via free agency to make it work IMO.

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03-17-2012, 04:44 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I don't see Carter remaining a wing doubly so if you consider the fact that he would give us three exceptionally skilled centers to go with our 3 exceptionally skilled RW's and will leave us only the need to fill in two legitimate LW sniper types. Imagine having Carter Kopitar and MR centering Brown Toffi and Williams, throw in the occasional Gagne King etc on LW and a true first line sniper and we are the scariest team in the league imo.

Carter is a good win and has done as well as expected here so far but consider this, he is an even better center. MR is too and given the offseason to regroup we could be a team that puts 3 ubber talented different styled lines that would be truly difficult to defend.

Our fourth line is going to be truly scary already. I think we are that LW sniper away from greatness.

Carter on wing is good but Carter at C with another top line LW wow.
???-Kopitar-Williams
Gagne-Carter-Brown
King-Richards-Toffoli

I think that is too optimistic. Sure, if we landed Parise, why not, but just because Carter is a good center doesn't mean we have to force it into three separate lines. It would force us to look into 2 wingers through free agency or trade (which is easier said than done with this team). Gagne is a big what-if and nobody expects Toffoli to come in here and set the world on fire. I don't see much of a difference between Carter the winger and Carter the center. Richards is doing a good job of getting him the puck and Carter has been all over the ice. I like keeping our top 6 stacked as it has been working for us tremendously thus far. Why mess with something that works? Carter himself has said that he likes wing and is happy with where he is. I wouldn't get too greedy, we need more balance.

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Old
03-17-2012, 05:29 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by JBernierFan View Post
We need a player LIKE him, but not him anymore, and I love Zus.
Paul Gaustad.


That being said I don't think Nashville lets Gaustad walk this off-season considering they gave up a 1st round pick for him. a 1st round for a rental is just damn stupid.

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Old
03-17-2012, 05:49 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Paul Gaustad.


That being said I don't think Nashville lets Gaustad walk this off-season considering they gave up a 1st round pick for him. a 1st round for a rental is just damn stupid.
They might not have much of a choice if they want to re-sign Weber and Suter, not to mention Radulov if he does make it back to the NHL.

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03-17-2012, 06:08 PM
  #57
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Gaustad would be the perfect third line addition that could improve LA's center depth, but as someone already mentioned, he's likely going to command $3M, possibly more. I think he would be a better fit over Stoll, he has size, he plays with a lot more grit, he's just as good, if not better on faceoffs, and he can play on the PK, giving Kopitar and/or Richards more rest.

The next best option to center the third line after Gaustad would be Dominic Moore. Sami Pahlsson will also be a UFA but I think he's getting to the point of his career where he's more of a fourth line C.

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03-17-2012, 06:11 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Gaustad would be the perfect third line addition that could improve LA's center depth, but as someone already mentioned, he's likely going to command $3M, possibly more. I think he would be a better fit over Stoll, he has size, he plays with a lot more grit, he's just as good, if not better on faceoffs, and he can play on the PK, giving Kopitar and/or Richards more rest.

The next best option to center the third line after Gaustad would be Dominic Moore. Sami Pahlsson will also be a UFA but I think he's getting to the point of his career where he's more of a fourth line C.
$3M is not that bad considering it's less than what we currently pay Stoll, and we'd be getting a better player.

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Old
03-17-2012, 06:19 PM
  #59
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I agree that $3M isn't too much for Gaustad, but I could see some desperate clubs overpaying for his services. See Columbus with their history of overpaying free agents (Foote, Commodore, Wisniewski). It won't be out of the norm to see Gaustad get closer to $4M as a UFA.

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Old
03-17-2012, 06:24 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Paul Gaustad.


That being said I don't think Nashville lets Gaustad walk this off-season considering they gave up a 1st round pick for him. a 1st round for a rental is just damn stupid.
In a supposedly "bad outside the top 7" draft, late 1st round picks don't hold much value.

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Old
03-17-2012, 06:27 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
The Kings have already proved the centers can't carry lines. Richards was playing pretty poor with non top six forward wingers.

So unless Dean signs, Ray I am 70 years old,Semin, or Parise. I would like Carter to remain at Wing. Gagne is going to get hurt again next year as well(you just have to expect that).

Toffoli, unless he has an amazing camp is headed for Manchester next year.

Carter's game is much better as a trigger man, you would need a winger that can set him up. If you are going to have him play Center.
That is exactly my point, *if* we get a true top line LW then Carter at center makes more sense. It is his natural position and gives us 3 amazing lines.

Centers can carry lines just like anyone else can depending on several varying factors (talent system etc) but that isn't close to what we are or would be asking any of our centers to do.

MR is the perfect center who can play with anyone you put him with but if you pair him with Williams/Toffoli/Brown on RW and Gagne King Clifford etc on LW you have an excellent basis for a highly skilled grinding power line.

Carter centering Williams/Toffi/Brown and a legitimate top line LW would give us a truly great skill sniping line and the same group with Kopitar would do the same.

Putting Carter at wing on MR's line just leaves us with the need to fill a center position with a lesser skilled player at one of our Center spots (Loktionov Stoll etc) if we are to get a top line LW to add to the mix.

I am not opposed to it but my thought is that we are going to try and ice the best possible team at every position. Of course it is just one way of thinking vs another but that is the way I see it.

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Old
03-17-2012, 06:38 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
???-Kopitar-Williams
Gagne-Carter-Brown
King-Richards-Toffoli

I think that is too optimistic. Sure, if we landed Parise, why not, but just because Carter is a good center doesn't mean we have to force it into three separate lines. It would force us to look into 2 wingers through free agency or trade (which is easier said than done with this team). Gagne is a big what-if and nobody expects Toffoli to come in here and set the world on fire. I don't see much of a difference between Carter the winger and Carter the center. Richards is doing a good job of getting him the puck and Carter has been all over the ice. I like keeping our top 6 stacked as it has been working for us tremendously thus far. Why mess with something that works? Carter himself has said that he likes wing and is happy with where he is. I wouldn't get too greedy, we need more balance.

Curious, who (which?) do you see being LW's on the team next season?

We have Gagne Clifford and King for certain (as of today) leaving us with one actual former top 6 LW. We must replace Pinhead and I don't know if Parse is in our plans but as we sit we have 3 LW's signed for next season.

I think we have a must fill spot open at LW for our top 6.

If we keep Brown at LW which is fine where do we put Gagne? I guess at Kings spot until the inevitable season ending injury but then we again have a need at LW.

Either way we go we have a need to fill two spots so I can't see any real difference rather or not it is with 1 center and one LW vs two wingers.

Why not fill a specific need (LW) and then move Carter to Center? If we don't we have to fill a center position anyways, why not do it with an exceptional sniping/speed center with a shoot first mentality?

I like Carter on the wing too but his versatility is part of what made me so interested in our picking him up. As to balance I am still standing on that soapbox and banging the balance drum as loudly as I can and to me, filling our actual need(s) can only give us more balance.

Maybe I am missing something but I can't see how having Carter play center with an exceptional RW and picking up a true top line LW this offseason throws us any more off balance then having to add a center *and* a top line LW.

Almost forgot, I like Carter at wing and am happy that he likes playing there but I am very opposed to having Stoll return to center our 3rd line and think that Loktionov might be ready to carry the load or maybe even Nolan but maybe's and I thinks leave me nervous.

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Old
03-17-2012, 06:43 PM
  #63
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I think that it is very optimistic to believe that Paul Gaustad is going to get less than $3.74m to $4.25m.

He is highly regarded and a key piece kind of player. Lots of teams will be making a run at him if you go by what the media is saying.

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03-17-2012, 06:47 PM
  #64
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If Carter were to move to center, you'd need to sign two UFA wingers IMO because Gagne can't be relied on. It seems like an unlikely scenario.

Whitney-Kopitar-Brown
Huselius-Carter-Williams
King-Richards-Toffoli/Holloway/Kozun
Clifford-Fraser/Cliche/Vey/Loktionov-Nolan

Spares: Richardson, Lewis, Westgarth

IR: Gagne

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Old
03-17-2012, 06:55 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Paul Gaustad.


That being said I don't think Nashville lets Gaustad walk this off-season considering they gave up a 1st round pick for him. a 1st round for a rental is just damn stupid.
You do realize that it was Gaustad and a 4th for a 1st? So Gaustad's real value was whatever the difference between an early 4th and a late 1st is.

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Old
03-17-2012, 06:58 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Paul Gaustad.


That being said I don't think Nashville lets Gaustad walk this off-season considering they gave up a 1st round pick for him. a 1st round for a rental is just damn stupid.
A friend of mine is buddies with Gaustad's agent, I'll have to ask him what he thinks Paul will do once the season is over.

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Old
03-17-2012, 07:13 PM
  #67
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I'm still on the fence with where Stoll fits in with all of this.

At the beginning of the season it was assumed that finally Stoll could drop down in the 3C position where he'd fit, but other than the last few games, he hasn't exactly earned a new contract.

But, with that said, unless you discount the last 5 or 6 games, perhaps it's safe to say that everyone other than Quick has really earned their paycheck?

To be honest, I like Fraser or Lewis to center the 4th, so that leaves 3C unless Carter moves back into the center position.

Some height like Gaustad might be nice.

This season has been an anomaly.

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03-17-2012, 07:14 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by savemefromtears View Post
I'm still on the fence with where Stoll fits in with all of this.

At the beginning of the season it was assumed that finally Stoll could drop down in the 3C position where he'd fit, but other than the last few games, he hasn't exactly earned a new contract.

But, with that said, unless you discount the last 5 or 6 games, perhaps it's safe to say that everyone other than Quick has really earned their paycheck?

This season has been an anomaly.
I want no part of Stoll coming back. If Lokti can put on some muscle, he can handle that 3rd line role just fine. Stoll has been detrimental to this team lately with his awful penalties.

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Old
03-17-2012, 07:24 PM
  #69
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Stoll has been detrimental to this team lately with his awful penalties.
I can concur with that.

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Old
03-17-2012, 07:29 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
If Carter were to move to center, you'd need to sign two UFA wingers IMO because Gagne can't be relied on. It seems like an unlikely scenario.

Whitney-Kopitar-Brown
Huselius-Carter-Williams
King-Richards-Toffoli/Holloway/Kozun
Clifford-Fraser/Cliche/Vey/Loktionov-Nolan

Spares: Richardson, Lewis, Westgarth

IR: Gagne
That is true but if we keep Carter at wing we need to sign a center and a wing or rely on a Loktionov to carry our 3rd line centering duties. I am not entirely opposed to that idea but it would be asking allot of the kid as well as leaving us in a weakened position.

To me it is a humm sort of thing.

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Old
03-17-2012, 07:41 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Curious, who (which?) do you see being LW's on the team next season?

We have Gagne Clifford and King for certain (as of today) leaving us with one actual former top 6 LW. We must replace Pinhead and I don't know if Parse is in our plans but as we sit we have 3 LW's signed for next season.

I think we have a must fill spot open at LW for our top 6.

If we keep Brown at LW which is fine where do we put Gagne? I guess at Kings spot until the inevitable season ending injury but then we again have a need at LW.

Either way we go we have a need to fill two spots so I can't see any real difference rather or not it is with 1 center and one LW vs two wingers.

Why not fill a specific need (LW) and then move Carter to Center? If we don't we have to fill a center position anyways, why not do it with an exceptional sniping/speed center with a shoot first mentality?

I like Carter on the wing too but his versatility is part of what made me so interested in our picking him up. As to balance I am still standing on that soapbox and banging the balance drum as loudly as I can and to me, filling our actual need(s) can only give us more balance.

Maybe I am missing something but I can't see how having Carter play center with an exceptional RW and picking up a true top line LW this offseason throws us any more off balance then having to add a center *and* a top line LW.

Almost forgot, I like Carter at wing and am happy that he likes playing there but I am very opposed to having Stoll return to center our 3rd line and think that Loktionov might be ready to carry the load or maybe even Nolan but maybe's and I thinks leave me nervous.
The optimism doesn't lie in believing we can roll three scoring lines unlike most of the NHL. The optimism lies in believing it is a forgone conclusion we will acquire a first line left wing this summer. In all likeliness, we enter next season with a filler and the same roster minus Penner and maybe Stoll. That and believing Toffoli will be in the lineup, which is far from certain as well. He will likely be in Manchester.

We are really looking at:

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Gagne?-Richards-Carter
King-???-Lewis
Clifford-???-Westgarth/Nolan

Even if we were to acquire a Parise or some top left wing, I am not a huge fan of breaking up our two lines with the most chemistry on the team, spreading them out in hopes of rolling 9 scoring forwards. We would be looking at:

???-Kopitar-Williams
???-Richards-Brown
King-???-???
Clifford-???-Nolan/Westgarth

It is unlikely Lombardi acts so drastically.

I can see Lombardi giving Gagne another go, re-signing Parse as an extra forward, and having Loktionov, Kozun, and Toffoli in reserves and rolling with it, especially after our top 6 lighting things up at the end of this year.

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Gagne-Richards-Carter
King-Loktionov-Lewis
Clifford-Richardson-Nolan
Westgarth


Last edited by Telos: 03-17-2012 at 07:50 PM.
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Old
03-17-2012, 07:47 PM
  #72
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Besides the winger to play in top 6 (since Gagne will probably still be out) is it to much to ask for a 3rd line with some identity?

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03-17-2012, 07:55 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by savemefromtears View Post
Besides the winger to play in top 6 (since Gagne will probably still be out) is it to much to ask for a 3rd line with some identity?
Stoll&Penner line does have an identity. Something like:


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03-17-2012, 08:05 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
That is true but if we keep Carter at wing we need to sign a center and a wing or rely on a Loktionov to carry our 3rd line centering duties. I am not entirely opposed to that idea but it would be asking allot of the kid as well as leaving us in a weakened position.

To me it is a humm sort of thing.
Carter isn't a good center in the Kings system. The Kings top 2 centers are relied heavily to provide the defense down low. Carter would thrive in a Philly system where the top 2 centers don't have to play defense. Carter is the perfect winger for the Kings system, large and fast with a wicked shot.

I wouldn't mind seeing Holloway brought back to add to the top 9, I don't think Toffoli should be counted on making the team as a first year pro, he will need 2 seasons in Manchester. I've been impressed enough with King to give him a shot of keeping a top 6 roll on the Kings. He's on a 46 point pace as a rookie right now. Playing with Richards and Carter lets him just play the simple game of using his size to retrieve pucks and pass it to his linemates. Then he just heads to the net.

Without signing anyone, I would roll this top 9:

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
King-Richards-Carter
Gagne-Loktionov-Holloway (Did Holloway and Loktionov play together in Manchester?)

Clifford/Richardson/Lewis/Westgarth/Nolan can round out the bottom 3.

With the changes to the system that Sutter has been able to mid-season, I would hope that he would continue to evolve over the summer and get an even better 5-man offensive system in place during traing camp.

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Old
03-17-2012, 08:28 PM
  #75
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well...Gagnes concussion really concernes me so
we would have to plan without him....
i see next year like that:

Brown - Kopitar - Wiliams
??? - Richards - Carter
???/Parse - Loktionov - ???
Clifford - Lewis - ???

to much ? for my taste

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