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Old
03-18-2012, 02:55 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by shelaur22 View Post
I think that's why Torts/Sullivan has Boyle standing stupidly in front of the net, looking unsure of what to do. He's our net presence, supposedly.
Yeah, which is beyond stupid. Boyle shouldn't see an ounce of PP time. Put Rupp out there. Wasn't that a big reason why we signed him? To stand in front of the net.

Boyle is so incompetent in front of net. First off he gets outmuscled because he is made of marshmellow. Secondly, he has no awareness. Remember when he screened the goalie, and the puck is right behind him? He couldn't turn to take a look. Thirdly, he has hands of stone, he can't corral rebounds or do decent tip ins on a regular basis.

Just an AWFUL AWFUL player.

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03-18-2012, 03:15 AM
  #102
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Yeah, which is beyond stupid. Boyle shouldn't see an ounce of PP time. Put Rupp out there. Wasn't that a big reason why we signed him? To stand in front of the net.

Boyle is so incompetent in front of net. First off he gets outmuscled because he is made of marshmellow. Secondly, he has no awareness. Remember when he screened the goalie, and the puck is right behind him? He couldn't turn to take a look. Thirdly, he has hands of stone, he can't corral rebounds or do decent tip ins on a regular basis.

Just an AWFUL AWFUL player.
Boyle is not an awful player. He a GREAT PKer and effective in a shutdown role at center. His issue right now is he's the 3rd line center when he needs to be the 4th line center. We do need some more size on the wing and skilled size upfront in general. I still don't know why Torts refuses to put Dubi in front of the net on the PP. He'd be effective there with his size and his ability to handle the puck in tight places. I understand Dubi is having a down season, but give the guy a shot in that spot and he might flourish. Cally has the heart of a man 10x's his size, but he does get out muscled in front on the net y bigger defenders. Putting Dubi there might be a better option at least on PP Unit #2.

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03-18-2012, 03:30 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
Boyle is not an awful player. He a GREAT PKer and effective in a shutdown role at center. His issue right now is he's the 3rd line center when he needs to be the 4th line center. We do need some more size on the wing and skilled size upfront in general. I still don't know why Torts refuses to put Dubi in front of the net on the PP. He'd be effective there with his size and his ability to handle the puck in tight places. I understand Dubi is having a down season, but give the guy a shot in that spot and he might flourish. Cally has the heart of a man 10x's his size, but he does get out muscled in front on the net y bigger defenders. Putting Dubi there might be a better option at least on PP Unit #2.
#1 Brian Boyle is GOOD Pker, and is a mediocre shutdown centerman. Any time that an opposing line has any semblance of speed or skill-he gets exposed. He is a BAD third line center, and a serviceable 4th line center. He doesn't dominate the faceoff circle, he can't skate(which is really the most damning thing about him). I am not sure if he would be a great 4th liner because he doesn't have an overpowering physical presence. Some times he lays a nice hit, but because his skating is so bad-he can't hit what he can't catch.

#2 They have tried Dubi as a screen in front of net. The problem is he does not set up screens well. He often times sets himself at the posts waiting for rebounds. He doesn't directly get in front of the goalie. It is one facet of his game that truly prevents him from being a legit power forward. Dubi also doesn't handle deflections all that well.

Honestly, the one guy who knows how to play in front of net is Cally. Unfortunately he is not that big, and it isn't difficult too push him out of the way. That said, he is still one of our best options there. IMO, Rupp should get a look. Pitt was successful in using him as a screen in front of net.

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03-18-2012, 03:43 AM
  #104
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Stralman needs to be in there for Bickel.

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03-18-2012, 03:49 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
#1 Brian Boyle is GOOD Pker, and is a mediocre shutdown centerman. Any time that an opposing line has any semblance of speed or skill-he gets exposed. He is a BAD third line center, and a serviceable 4th line center. He doesn't dominate the faceoff circle, he can't skate(which is really the most damning thing about him). I am not sure if he would be a great 4th liner because he doesn't have an overpowering physical presence. Some times he lays a nice hit, but because his skating is so bad-he can't hit what he can't catch.

#2 They have tried Dubi as a screen in front of net. The problem is he does not set up screens well. He often times sets himself at the posts waiting for rebounds. He doesn't directly get in front of the goalie. It is one facet of his game that truly prevents him from being a legit power forward. Dubi also doesn't handle deflections all that well.

Honestly, the one guy who knows how to play in front of net is Cally. Unfortunately he is not that big, and it isn't difficult too push him out of the way. That said, he is still one of our best options there. IMO, Rupp should get a look. Pitt was successful in using him as a screen in front of net.
Boyle is on a top 5 PK team and plays the most PK min/g of any forward on the team. To say he's not a GREAt PKer isn't doing him enough justice. Boyle also gets matched up with the other team's best line the majority of the time, and is on a team that is near the top in goals allowed (least allowed). I do't like him on the 3rd line either, but to say these things about him and calling him an awful player do him no justice. His first year here, he was awful. NOW, he's one of the better 4th liners in the league. He's a smart player, covering for the D when the pinch, and is a calming force in the defensive end. I really don't think you're giving Boyle a fair shake. If you are expecting him to score a bunch like last season, forget about your expectations of the guy. He's a prototypical 4th line NHL center on a GOOD team.

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03-18-2012, 04:03 AM
  #106
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Boyle is on a top 5 PK team and plays the most PK min/g of any forward on the team. To say he's not a GREAt PKer isn't doing him enough justice. Boyle also gets matched up with the other team's best line the majority of the time, and is on a team that is near the top in goals allowed (least allowed). I do't like him on the 3rd line either, but to say these things about him and calling him an awful player do him no justice. His first year here, he was awful. NOW, he's one of the better 4th liners in the league. He's a smart player, covering for the D when the pinch, and is a calming force in the defensive end. I really don't think you're giving Boyle a fair shake. If you are expecting him to score a bunch like last season, forget about your expectations of the guy. He's a prototypical 4th line NHL center on a GOOD team.
Calming force on the defensive end? You mean when he gets sucked into half wall and can't turn to cover the slot. Or how about when he gets sucked into the corners, and Feds has to haul his butt to cover Boyle's man? Or when Boyle gets trapped in the offensive zone when he loses the puck along the half wall and Prust has to race up ice for him to take away the middle from the puck carrier(because atleast he has the wheels to do so). Or they just get completely trapped like on the second goal last night. I have almost never seen Boyle cover a Dman pinching(which doesn't require some sort of amazing hockey IQ).

I do not expect him to score goals. I have given up on him being stalwart offensively since the second half of the last season. But this illusion where he is this amazing defensive forward is baffling to me.

I said he was good Pker but that does not make one a good defensive forward five on five. On the Pk Boyle has learned how to use his size in order to stack the slot in the box. He also blocks shots well. But on even strength, he does not have the skating ability to cover the large areas of ice he is responsible for. His two wings cover A TON of his shortcomings.

I know people like Boyle, he seems like he is a nice guy. I will never question his effort or intentions. I think he is probably the one of the hardest working player on the team. But he is what he is. He doesn't have enough physical tools to be a great 4th liner either. How many times do I have to see 6'7 player get outmuscled by 5'10 wing to know he probably isn't that overpowering?


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03-18-2012, 05:07 AM
  #107
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I think you might be on to something.
Can't understand why play Zucc on the point. He should be down on the right hans side somewhere. Seems like he's ending up there every PP, or infront of the goalie but not sure that's intended. With a human goalie they would have a PP goal at least yesterday though.

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03-18-2012, 06:20 AM
  #108
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I thought we played decent. Varlamov was just too much.

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03-18-2012, 06:45 AM
  #109
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Calming force on the defensive end? You mean when he gets sucked into half wall and can't turn to cover the slot. Or how about when he gets sucked into the corners, and Feds has to haul his butt to cover Boyle's man? Or when Boyle gets trapped in the offensive zone when he loses the puck along the half wall and Prust has to race up ice for him to take away the middle from the puck carrier(because atleast he has the wheels to do so). Or they just get completely trapped like on the second goal last night. I have almost never seen Boyle cover a Dman pinching(which doesn't require some sort of amazing hockey IQ).
Im going to try to make this sound as impersonal as possible. Because its not personal. Just debating.

The center's job in the defensive zone is to cover and support the defensemen in the corners and to cover the half boards.

If the center has to go into either of those areas, it is the responsibility of the opposite winger to drop down and cover the slot.

Never at any point ever, should both defensemen be on one side of the ice. If one defenseman is in a corner, the other defenseman should be in front of the net. When the puck swings to the other corner, everyone shifts. The defenseman that was in front of the net goes to the other corner, the other defenseman covers the net, the center follows the puck for support, the winger that was cover the slot like he's supposed to do (Fedotenko in your scenario), goes back to covering the half wall and point, the other winger drops down from the point/half wall to the slot. And on we go.

He is also supposed to go deep into the offensive zone. It is one wingers job to stay high if the center goes deep (Prust in your scenario). The high forward acts as a third defenseman, covering if a defenseman has to pinch.

This is why centers are a unique position. And why they need to be responsible. Because they have the MOST responsibility and have to cover the most amount of space on the ice of any position on the ice. That's why Tortorella moved Dubinsky to the wing. To take some responsibility from him.

Boyle does a fine job doing it. He isn't expected to score. He isn't expected to physically dominate. He's expected to play his position and prevent goals against, while contributing to the occasional goal for.

Boyle isn't the problem.

The problem is the guys expected to score are not scoring. And guys like Bickel keep turning the puck over.


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03-18-2012, 06:50 AM
  #110
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well that was frustrating...i can't believe they lost that, they were the better team by far in that game. That said it did not seem like the gabby/richards/hagelin line really got going in the game. I felt zucc really stood out, especially with the goal and such a shame that pp shot hit the post, that would have been great if it went in. Lundqvist only let in 2 goals, better than his past few games made one beautiful save to keep us down by only 1. We just had bad luck in the offensive zone last night.

I think we play a great game! We need to keep that play going forward and see where it goes. I hope we don't fall out of first, but if we do, we do, I just want to be in the playoffs and go in with confidence and i want to beat pittsburgh in April before the playoffs!

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03-18-2012, 07:00 AM
  #111
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The better team lost. The Rangers controlled the game.

Varlamov invoked Roy's prime years for the night.

The Dubinsky. Stepan. Callahan line showed no chemistry in the past, why Tortorella decides to go to that dried up well is incredibly frustrating.

Zuccarello was the best forward on the ice and got rewarded with nothing.

Hagelin. Richards. Gaborik
Zuccarello. Stepan. Callahan
Fedotenko. Boyle. Prust
Rupp. Dubinsky. Mitchell

And Bickel had no business playing after his awful performance in the Penguins game. Stralman should have been playing. He's just about the only defenseman we have that can carry the puck somewhat consistently.

McDonagh. Girardi
Del Zotto. Stralman
Erixon. Staal

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03-18-2012, 07:05 AM
  #112
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They need to sign Kreider. BC needs to lose.

Take Rupp out of the lineup he's ****ing useless lately.

Hagelin. Richards. Gaborik
Kreider. Stepan. Callahan
Zuccarello. Dubinsky. Mitchell
Fedotenko. Boyle. Prust

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03-18-2012, 08:00 AM
  #113
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I think everyone needs to relax. The team, the fans, the media. The truth is that this team overachieved until about February, and all the bounces seemed to go their way. Now they aren't. If you predicted this team would win the Predsients trophy in October, you would have been alone in your prediction. Not that they should pull back, but the traditional Ranger season requires us to play so hard just to make the playoffs that the tank is empty when we get there. Ease up. We have that luxury. Rest some guys. You can't drive your team like a getaway car all season. What happens in the post season is the important thing.

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03-18-2012, 08:49 AM
  #114
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I thought all our lines were rolling last night (except the 3rd line, which is why they saw less ice time when we needed to tie it up). Dubi-Steps-Cally DID have chemistry I don't know what game some of you were watching. The team played great and dominated but got stopped by a hot goalie. It sucks but it happens.

If I see Bickel over Stralman again I'm going to flip ****. No reason that should be happening.

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03-18-2012, 08:52 AM
  #115
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Can't understand why play Zucc on the point. He should be down on the right hans side somewhere. Seems like he's ending up there every PP, or infront of the goalie but not sure that's intended. With a human goalie they would have a PP goal at least yesterday though.
He didn't play on the point. He manned the point position as Richards was taking the face off.

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03-18-2012, 09:05 AM
  #116
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I'm resigning myself to the fact that we're the #4 or #5... no div or conf title.

That being said...

WE NEED TO GET HEALTHY

Hopefully we'll get hot at the right time and we don't stay anywhere near this cold.

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03-18-2012, 09:45 AM
  #117
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I don't think we played a poor game tonight, just ran into a hot goalie. I rather hit our funk now then in the playoffs.

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03-18-2012, 10:14 AM
  #118
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Played well from top to bottom imo...

The PP Looked amazing, all the lines were forchecking. The D minimized there chances. It was what it was, a hot goalie... 9x out of 10 we are on the winning end of games like this. Got a little taste of our own medicine.

This is what boston fans must feel like against us this season..

Oh and ill put 10 bucks down that gabby is out next game with the flu... Skating in mud last night.

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03-18-2012, 10:22 AM
  #119
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Yeah, which is beyond stupid. Boyle shouldn't see an ounce of PP time. Put Rupp out there. Wasn't that a big reason why we signed him? To stand in front of the net.

Boyle is so incompetent in front of net. First off he gets outmuscled because he is made of marshmellow. Secondly, he has no awareness. Remember when he screened the goalie, and the puck is right behind him? He couldn't turn to take a look. Thirdly, he has hands of stone, he can't corral rebounds or do decent tip ins on a regular basis.

Just an AWFUL AWFUL player.
completely agree. i was shocked when boyle didn't turn around and put the puck in the net on his backhand last night. the puck just sat on the ice for a full second and he just stood there stupidly. any other ranger would have been scrambling to find that puck or already knew where it was and trying to put it in the net.

i'd rather see rupp be our screener on the pp.

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03-18-2012, 10:50 AM
  #120
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I think everyone needs to relax. The team, the fans, the media. The truth is that this team overachieved until about February, and all the bounces seemed to go their way. Now they aren't. If you predicted this team would win the Predsients trophy in October, you would have been alone in your prediction. Not that they should pull back, but the traditional Ranger season requires us to play so hard just to make the playoffs that the tank is empty when we get there. Ease up. We have that luxury. Rest some guys. You can't drive your team like a getaway car all season. What happens in the post season is the important thing.
Good post. Finally a Rangers fan who gets it; I've been saying all season that we didn't have nearly enough talent and that the style we have to play as a result and smoke € mirrors would only last so long and take us so far.

At this point in time, we should accept our fate(most likely and hopefully as a 4 seed) and focus all our energy into securing our spot and then winning "one round" of the playoffs.
If we can do that, then perhaps we can build some confidence going forward.

I know I would be a happy camper if we can accomplish that this year.

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03-18-2012, 11:02 AM
  #121
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Im going to try to make this sound as impersonal as possible. Because its not personal. Just debating.

The center's job in the defensive zone is to cover and support the defensemen in the corners and to cover the half boards.

If the center has to go into either of those areas, it is the responsibility of the opposite winger to drop down and cover the slot.

Never at any point ever, should both defensemen be on one side of the ice. If one defenseman is in a corner, the other defenseman should be in front of the net. When the puck swings to the other corner, everyone shifts. The defenseman that was in front of the net goes to the other corner, the other defenseman covers the net, the center follows the puck for support, the winger that was cover the slot like he's supposed to do (Fedotenko in your scenario), goes back to covering the half wall and point, the other winger drops down from the point/half wall to the slot. And on we go.

He is also supposed to go deep into the offensive zone. It is one wingers job to stay high if the center goes deep (Prust in your scenario). The high forward acts as a third defenseman, covering if a defenseman has to pinch.

This is why centers are a unique position. And why they need to be responsible. Because they have the MOST responsibility and have to cover the most amount of space on the ice of any position on the ice. That's why Tortorella moved Dubinsky to the wing. To take some responsibility from him.

Boyle does a fine job doing it. He isn't expected to score. He isn't expected to physically dominate. He's expected to play his position and prevent goals against, while contributing to the occasional goal for.

Boyle isn't the problem.

The problem is the guys expected to score are not scoring. And guys like Bickel keep turning the puck over.
Correct, the center can go into the corners to support the puck for a defensemen(sometimes). The center has the responsibility for LARGE Portions of the ice. However, because of Boyle's lack of skating(especially his mobility) he can't effectively cover those large portions of the ice. He finds himself trapped(overcommits) into an area of the ice because he cannot effectively reposition himself quickly to his PRIMARY responsibility as a center which is the mid slot. This is why Anisimov is a better option as a third line center(when he is healthy). Boyle's skating is a SERIOUS problem against better more mobile/skilled teams.

IMO, Boyle's poor skating is less of a liability as a wing, than as a center. I made this point countless times.

So if Boyle can't skate, doesn't chip in goals(we agree on this)what other role should he fill as a 4th line player(which outside of last night where Torts benched him with 8 min of ice time; he technically isn't)? The only one is to have some sort physical dominance on the ice. Yet I don't even think he does that effectively.

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03-18-2012, 11:16 AM
  #122
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I thought the team as a whole, played well. They only gave up two goals and took a massive amount of shots. Varlamov just stood on his head.

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03-18-2012, 11:29 AM
  #123
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He didn't play on the point. He manned the point position as Richards was taking the face off.
Well, that expaines it then

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03-18-2012, 11:36 AM
  #124
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“Kept that puck for sure. Not everyday you get to squeeze one past the best. #dreamcometrue”
-- Gabriel Landeskog on scoring past Henrik Lundqvist

That's the kind of respect that's not in any other sport. Kudos to Landeskog for not getting a big head.

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03-18-2012, 11:43 AM
  #125
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“Kept that puck for sure. Not everyday you get to squeeze one past the best. #dreamcometrue”
-- Gabriel Landeskog on scoring past Henrik Lundqvist

That's the kind of respect that's not in any other sport. Kudos to Landeskog for not getting a big head.
Really like Landeskog. Avs have a player on their hands.

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