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Old
03-15-2012, 11:50 PM
  #76
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hmm...i'm not so sure. Toronto has been finishing the season strong since the lockout and look where its brought them...

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03-16-2012, 06:27 AM
  #77
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Lets assume the roster is roughly the same...

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
LeBlanc - Plekanec - Gionta
Moen - Eller - Bourque
White - Gomez - Staubitz

Markov - Subban
Emelim - Gorges
Kaberle - Weber

Now we look at the standings...

New York
Boston
Florida
Pittsburgh
Philadelphia
New Jersey
Ottawa
Washington
Buffalo
Winnipeg

If Washington actually cleans up its act and their players play to past standards, we are better than no one in the top eight. You could argue Ottawa or if Washington continues to struggle but this is a repeat of years past; 7-8th place slug fests as the season winds down. I want to see Montreal be a Pittsburgh or Philadelphia. No they may not have Crosby but we could find a Giroux and our chances increase significantly with a top three pick.

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03-16-2012, 01:20 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by franchise player View Post
I agree with that. There's a huge difference between a top3 pick (as we were going to pick) and a 7-8th overall pick. Winning a couple of meaningless games isn't good enough to make this up.
Wrong. Not this year. The only difference is that you don't have the luxury of choosing which player you pick. Otherwise, #7 or 8 could easily end up being better pros than #3 or 4.

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03-16-2012, 04:21 PM
  #79
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Pierre McGuire calling running the tables at this point of the season 'a sucker rally'


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03-16-2012, 04:39 PM
  #80
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Old
03-18-2012, 08:30 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Leaf fans say this every year. They always (except this year) finish strong after they're out of the playoffs and then talk about how they finished on a hot streak...

I'm sorry to break it to you but a top pick is far better than finishing strong. There's no way around it. A top pick has the potential to be a star player for you for over a decade... there's no comparison as to what would be better for us.

There's nothing we can do about it though. The club is going to play hard to win. It is what it is and that's how it should be. And hey, it's nice to actually watch us win some games so we might as well just sit back and enjoy it as best we can.

Sure would be nice to see the Isles and Leafs win a game for once though...
Exactly. I'm a tanker, because logically that is how you improve when you have a very bad year.

However, I want all of our young guys playing their ***** off to win, or they'll never learn the fortitude required to win a cup.

That's also why I'm not pissed at RC. He said the other day, paraphrasing: 'These guys wear the Habs uniform, and they will play to win" Damn right. RC might be inexperienced, but he's not letting the team become intentional losers. Good for him.

A dilemma therefore.

So? God dammit! Why in our one tank year did so many other teams have to be so **** at the same time?

Drives me nuts!

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03-18-2012, 08:36 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
I see some posts saying:

"We can't do anything to help the tank, the players and coach want to win" or something to that effect

umm..duh. I don't think anyone was thinking that we try to give the team home team (disadvantage, which of course now in bizzaro world, we are winning EVEN at home).

The desire to get that high pick is expressed as an outcome of the game not with the intention of trying to change the result. If that were true, we've done a shiiiite job trying to get them to win all season.

There are no positives to finishing the season strong in the face of a possibly high pick. They just do NOT matter. At the end of last year, we thought, no Markov, team had injuries, we still took Boston to game 7 so we'll DEFINITELY be in the top 5 of the conference next year with how good PK is and Emelin coming over (btw, both WERE awesome this season IMO), when we got Cole, boosted even more (and he obviously has had a great season).

Thus based on our "great end" to last season (only an OT game 7 loss kept us out), we predicted the world for this team, or many did. Too much can go wrong as we've seen. What a horrible season it's been despite the supposed effect of the previous year carrying over.

Yes, absolutely us doing well has shown me that we have lots of great pieces, but I knew that before. I didn't need the last couple of games to tell me Eller is going to be really good, that DD is the **** (I thought that at the start of the season), that Max is back and with Cole has been our MVP perhaps tied also with Price, who has continued to be a solid rock for this team (please don't argue that, he has), that Emelin is a beast and that we will have a great blueline in 2-3 years.

I knew all this stuff before the edmonton game. When we go to make the selection, who the hell is going to care about the fact we beat Edmonton, Van, got a point off Buffalo and beat Ottawa (maybe twice). Will it be awesome if we beat the isles? No. It will give another team a chance at picking the fwd we desperately need if we want to see Ws in the coming years. I just don't see how this late in the season, people want us to shoot for 11th when the alternative is getting a potential franchise player. Nobody is saying the players themselves shouldn't try to win (although playing the less talented ones does help), just that every win sucks, no matter how nice it feels to see the team win. When the playoffs start and all the hoopla begins, you'll feel empty. How would you feel about going into the playoffs next year or the year after with a lineup that includes our current budding stars + a Nail Yakupov or whoever? I imagine a lot better than seeing toronto get that pick.
This is why I question the NHL draft system. And it's about bloody time the NHL thought about it too.

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Old
03-18-2012, 10:13 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Leaf fans say this every year. They always (except this year) finish strong after they're out of the playoffs and then talk about how they finished on a hot streak...

I'm sorry to break it to you but a top pick is far better than finishing strong. There's no way around it. A top pick has the potential to be a star player for you for over a decade... there's no comparison as to what would be better for us.

There's nothing we can do about it though. The club is going to play hard to win. It is what it is and that's how it should be. And hey, it's nice to actually watch us win some games so we might as well just sit back and enjoy it as best we can.

Sure would be nice to see the Isles and Leafs win a game for once though...
Nope. That is far off the mark. A strong finish to your season leaves you motivated for the next season, while a crappy ending leaves you HOPING you get a good pick and there's a big chance that pick doesn't even turn into anything at the NHL level.

Leafs are the only team you can say have had above average second halves for a while now and still fail the next year. They have had a terrible team most of those years, with an ill-suited coach and average goaltending at best. Also, not much depth past their top two lines.

Then you look at New Jersey and see where they are after having a great finish to their season last year. They didn't roll over when they were pretty much dead last in the East, they fought hard and went on a very solid streak to end the season. Look where it brought them this year.

Detroit also fell far behind, I'm not sure if it was last year or the year before, but they fought back and never once stopped believing. Eventually, they made the playoffs.

Now look at the teams who have been finishing low for most of the past decades, teams like the Panthers and the Isles and the Oilers. They have so much young talent on their teams, but aside from the Panthers still fail every season. The Panthers are having a good season not because they have finishes last so much, but because they added some very key pieces in the offseason and decided they were going to make a huge push for the playoffs this year under new GM Dale Tallon.

A team like the Habs doesn't need to tank. They have built their core, they have a solid foundation for their future. That foundation is young and has so much potential. The best way to develop a young core is to put them to work night in and night out, to fight tooth and nail for that victory. Otherwise you're teaching them a losing attitude and not benefiting their development very much. It is nonsense to put too much pressure on them, putting them in every situation like some posters want here in order to tank. You play them like you would when you develop a young player in an established roster, and continue trying your hardest every game by playing your best players the most but at the same time giving your younger players certain opportunities to shine. One solid draft pick will hardly make a difference, anyone past Yakupov is an above average prospect at best. All you can do is HOPE that player will develop into something useful.

OR, you could root for the team to win even when everything is too far out of reach. It shows character and heart, and playing with effort will benefit both your young and veteran players for next year and will help them mentally, reassuring them that no matter what happens in the future that no one on this team will ever give up... even if their goal seems out of reach.

It disgusts me to see so many people hoping for their favorite team to lose, I don't care if you think that drafting one 18 year old can change our entire franchise because I know that he won't. He can develop into a great player, sure, but that is more luck than anything. We can draft a player at 12th overall and he can turn out to be better than almost everyone else in the draft. That's how drafting works: it is like the lottery.

So please, if you are a fan of this team you would hope for them to play well and succeed even when they are down and out, because you want your team to show conviction, heart and character for now and in the future. Because right now is where our core youth starts to get effective.

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Old
03-18-2012, 11:08 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
Nope. That is far off the mark. A strong finish to your season leaves you motivated for the next season, while a crappy ending leaves you HOPING you get a good pick and there's a big chance that pick doesn't even turn into anything at the NHL level.

Leafs are the only team you can say have had above average second halves for a while now and still fail the next year. They have had a terrible team most of those years, with an ill-suited coach and average goaltending at best. Also, not much depth past their top two lines.

Then you look at New Jersey and see where they are after having a great finish to their season last year. They didn't roll over when they were pretty much dead last in the East, they fought hard and went on a very solid streak to end the season. Look where it brought them this year.

Detroit also fell far behind, I'm not sure if it was last year or the year before, but they fought back and never once stopped believing. Eventually, they made the playoffs.

Now look at the teams who have been finishing low for most of the past decades, teams like the Panthers and the Isles and the Oilers. They have so much young talent on their teams, but aside from the Panthers still fail every season. The Panthers are having a good season not because they have finishes last so much, but because they added some very key pieces in the offseason and decided they were going to make a huge push for the playoffs this year under new GM Dale Tallon.

A team like the Habs doesn't need to tank. They have built their core, they have a solid foundation for their future. That foundation is young and has so much potential. The best way to develop a young core is to put them to work night in and night out, to fight tooth and nail for that victory. Otherwise you're teaching them a losing attitude and not benefiting their development very much. It is nonsense to put too much pressure on them, putting them in every situation like some posters want here in order to tank. You play them like you would when you develop a young player in an established roster, and continue trying your hardest every game by playing your best players the most but at the same time giving your younger players certain opportunities to shine. One solid draft pick will hardly make a difference, anyone past Yakupov is an above average prospect at best. All you can do is HOPE that player will develop into something useful.

OR, you could root for the team to win even when everything is too far out of reach. It shows character and heart, and playing with effort will benefit both your young and veteran players for next year and will help them mentally, reassuring them that no matter what happens in the future that no one on this team will ever give up... even if their goal seems out of reach.

It disgusts me to see so many people hoping for their favorite team to lose, I don't care if you think that drafting one 18 year old can change our entire franchise because I know that he won't. He can develop into a great player, sure, but that is more luck than anything. We can draft a player at 12th overall and he can turn out to be better than almost everyone else in the draft. That's how drafting works: it is like the lottery.

So please, if you are a fan of this team you would hope for them to play well and succeed even when they are down and out, because you want your team to show conviction, heart and character for now and in the future. Because right now is where our core youth starts to get effective.
Sometimes in life, it's better to use your head instead of following your heart. All of us here want to see the Habs succeed. Some of us however are tired of finishing in the middle of the pack and never having the opportunity at least to draft a genuine game breaker. The last time the Habs did that was due to luck (see lottery) after the lockout and they picked Carey Price.

Sometimes, it's better to take a step back in order to take 3 steps forward. That's the position this team is in right now.

Also, let's not forget that we're not only talking about the first round pick here, but they would be getting an early second, early third, etc...

Best recent example of that are the 2006-07 Flyers.

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Old
03-18-2012, 11:41 AM
  #85
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While I was excited for a top 5 pick as much as anyone, I've come to the conclusion that it's actually a good thing we're playing well to end the year. While the season until recently was a disaster, the team appears to have rediscovered it's Mojo, and all that appeared lost going forward, doesn't actually seem that far away...


THE PRICE IS RIGHT
Price brokeout last season, and while we were all excited for him, there was a question in the back of our minds if he could do it again. Despite the teams struggles through the 1st three quarters of the season, Price has remained excellent throughout and has shown himself to be an All-Star goalie for the foreseeable future. I think we all are more confident that he can be "that guy" now that he has done it in back to back years in the NHL.

A TRIO OF CENTERS
They may not be the biggest trio of centers, but in DD, Pleks, and Eller we have ourselves a very good set of centers, all under 30. All three guys are two way guys, guys who can produce as well as be responsible defensively, and I for one wouldn't be shocked if we could count on them to produce at 70-60-50 points per season respectively for the next few years. Considering their defensive acumen, that's damn good production.

PACIORETTY
I think it's fair to say that Max has shown he's a young, big, top line forward that can score in bunches. Heading into the year most of us didn't know exactly what to expect, if he'd be a difference maker at all, but I think the results speak for themselves, and I don't think anyone could have expected more. He looks like a 30/30 guy going forward, with the upside for more.

SUBBAN SHAKES THE SLUMP
Halfway through the season, Subban was struggling significantly. He was sophomore slumping, and his upside suddenly came into question. He's since put it back together and I think it's reasonable to believe that he will come out and have a monstrous 2012-2013. Him becoming a two way star who can throw highlight checks and get under the skin of opponents is not too far off.

MARKOV BACK
He certainly took his time, but now with Markov back and getting comfortable it seems like everything is coming together. The PP, the overall mojo of the team, he was signed to be an elite player for us, and him finishing strongly certainly bodes well for next year.

EMELIN
While he's clearly suffering a little bit from exhaustion, the Habs have found themselves a young defensive and physically imposing studn who can also move the puck. Emelin reminds of Volchenkov of the Sens, with a bit more offensive upside, and he looks like a big part of the blueline going forward.

VETERAN LEADERSHIP
Before Moen got hurt, he Gorges, and Cole emerged as true veteran leaders of this team. All three deserve A's on their sweater, and Gorges might end up with the "C" before too long.

TEAM SIZE/TOUGHNESS
With Emelin, the infusion of size into the lineup, along with the Brad Staubitz pickup and Ryan Whites return, the Habs are suddenly a pretty tough team as opposed to the softest group in the league. It seems as though there's been a significant culture change over the last calender year. I think it's pretty fair to say this long standing issue has been addressed.

THE KIDS ON THEIR WAY
The habs don't have a great group of prospects, but they do have a great group arriving in Hamilton next season. Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis, Kristo, Gallagher, Bournival, Holland, etc, there is serious influx of talent inching towards the show especially along the blue line. As the Habs aim to bounce back next year, the reinforcements are in place to step in for the injuries that are bound to happen.


All in all, it's been too little too late for this season, but when looking at the organizational big picture, and all the question marks heading into the year, pretty much EVERY SINGLE ONE looks better and a surer bet going into next year that it did into this. The Habs are back folks, it's just going to be next year we reep the rewards...
nice post but stop drinking the kool aid

we lack talent to compete with the great teams

we are years away

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03-18-2012, 11:42 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
Nope. That is far off the mark. A strong finish to your season leaves you motivated for the next season, while a crappy ending leaves you HOPING you get a good pick and there's a big chance that pick doesn't even turn into anything at the NHL level.

Leafs are the only team you can say have had above average second halves for a while now and still fail the next year. They have had a terrible team most of those years, with an ill-suited coach and average goaltending at best. Also, not much depth past their top two lines.

Then you look at New Jersey and see where they are after having a great finish to their season last year. They didn't roll over when they were pretty much dead last in the East, they fought hard and went on a very solid streak to end the season. Look where it brought them this year.

Detroit also fell far behind, I'm not sure if it was last year or the year before, but they fought back and never once stopped believing. Eventually, they made the playoffs.

Now look at the teams who have been finishing low for most of the past decades, teams like the Panthers and the Isles and the Oilers. They have so much young talent on their teams, but aside from the Panthers still fail every season. The Panthers are having a good season not because they have finishes last so much, but because they added some very key pieces in the offseason and decided they were going to make a huge push for the playoffs this year under new GM Dale Tallon.

A team like the Habs doesn't need to tank. They have built their core, they have a solid foundation for their future. That foundation is young and has so much potential. The best way to develop a young core is to put them to work night in and night out, to fight tooth and nail for that victory. Otherwise you're teaching them a losing attitude and not benefiting their development very much. It is nonsense to put too much pressure on them, putting them in every situation like some posters want here in order to tank. You play them like you would when you develop a young player in an established roster, and continue trying your hardest every game by playing your best players the most but at the same time giving your younger players certain opportunities to shine. One solid draft pick will hardly make a difference, anyone past Yakupov is an above average prospect at best. All you can do is HOPE that player will develop into something useful.

OR, you could root for the team to win even when everything is too far out of reach. It shows character and heart, and playing with effort will benefit both your young and veteran players for next year and will help them mentally, reassuring them that no matter what happens in the future that no one on this team will ever give up... even if their goal seems out of reach.

It disgusts me to see so many people hoping for their favorite team to lose, I don't care if you think that drafting one 18 year old can change our entire franchise because I know that he won't. He can develop into a great player, sure, but that is more luck than anything. We can draft a player at 12th overall and he can turn out to be better than almost everyone else in the draft. That's how drafting works: it is like the lottery.

So please, if you are a fan of this team you would hope for them to play well and succeed even when they are down and out, because you want your team to show conviction, heart and character for now and in the future. Because right now is where our core youth starts to get effective.
You conveniently leave out the fact that due to a huge bit of luck, as New Jersey had gone on a pointless streak to take them out of the top 5, the Devils won the draft lottery and moved from 8th to 4th and picked Adam Larsson who has been an integral part of their D corps this year. Without him they aren't nearly as good and are probably fighting for 8th, right down where the Habs usually are.

You also overrate our prospects that are coming- as a group they are average, no stars there let alone first liners or #1 defencemen.

Imagine how much better our forward prospects would be if we were to draft a superstar forward to make them all that much better.

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03-18-2012, 11:45 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
Nope. That is far off the mark. A strong finish to your season leaves you motivated for the next season, while a crappy ending leaves you HOPING you get a good pick and there's a big chance that pick doesn't even turn into anything at the NHL level.

Leafs are the only team you can say have had above average second halves for a while now and still fail the next year. They have had a terrible team most of those years, with an ill-suited coach and average goaltending at best. Also, not much depth past their top two lines.

Then you look at New Jersey and see where they are after having a great finish to their season last year. They didn't roll over when they were pretty much dead last in the East, they fought hard and went on a very solid streak to end the season. Look where it brought them this year.

Detroit also fell far behind, I'm not sure if it was last year or the year before, but they fought back and never once stopped believing. Eventually, they made the playoffs.

Now look at the teams who have been finishing low for most of the past decades, teams like the Panthers and the Isles and the Oilers. They have so much young talent on their teams, but aside from the Panthers still fail every season. The Panthers are having a good season not because they have finishes last so much, but because they added some very key pieces in the offseason and decided they were going to make a huge push for the playoffs this year under new GM Dale Tallon.

A team like the Habs doesn't need to tank. They have built their core, they have a solid foundation for their future. That foundation is young and has so much potential. The best way to develop a young core is to put them to work night in and night out, to fight tooth and nail for that victory. Otherwise you're teaching them a losing attitude and not benefiting their development very much. It is nonsense to put too much pressure on them, putting them in every situation like some posters want here in order to tank. You play them like you would when you develop a young player in an established roster, and continue trying your hardest every game by playing your best players the most but at the same time giving your younger players certain opportunities to shine. One solid draft pick will hardly make a difference, anyone past Yakupov is an above average prospect at best. All you can do is HOPE that player will develop into something useful.

OR, you could root for the team to win even when everything is too far out of reach. It shows character and heart, and playing with effort will benefit both your young and veteran players for next year and will help them mentally, reassuring them that no matter what happens in the future that no one on this team will ever give up... even if their goal seems out of reach.

It disgusts me to see so many people hoping for their favorite team to lose, I don't care if you think that drafting one 18 year old can change our entire franchise because I know that he won't. He can develop into a great player, sure, but that is more luck than anything. We can draft a player at 12th overall and he can turn out to be better than almost everyone else in the draft. That's how drafting works: it is like the lottery.

So please, if you are a fan of this team you would hope for them to play well and succeed even when they are down and out, because you want your team to show conviction, heart and character for now and in the future. Because right now is where our core youth starts to get effective.
IF (oh how I wish I could use WHEN instead) we draft in the top 5. Please re-post this in two years when that draft pick is putting MTL back on the highlights board and striking fear into opposing defences.

Re: the bolded part. The thing is, we're not in 9th or 10th hoping for loses. We are in 14th (and 4th overall) and if we had even gotten a couple of reg losses in the past 6 games, we would have a very good shot, not a potential shot at drafting in the coveted top 5. This is NOT going to happen again anytime soon, pretty much for the reasons you listed -- we are a good team. This is a huge opportunity. And IMO I really don't think finishing the season strong in 11th place should feel any better than missing the playoffs by a point (which is probably the most discouraging thing and has happened before).

What possible surge are you expecting due to the last few games carrying over. Why can't a 4pt Lars Eller game propel into scoring on a regular basis (FTR I love Eller and it's mostly the lack of support on his line that's the problem)? When the season ends in two weeks, NOBODY on the Habs or within the fanbase should be feeling great about what we accomplished in the futile last part of the season where all we did was move from 29th to maybe 24th (which would be disastrous and is looking likely now). If a coach who double shifts the first line and is pulling out all the late-season tactics to get points (I don't blame RC, he knows he has to get a job somewhere) is an indication that we have lots to look forward to given we have IIRC only won either in OT/SO or by one goal except for the Van game, it's not time to be getting the SC banner for next year ready.

The whole point is, yes, a draft pick is unpredictable, but MUCH less unpredictable if it's high enough. Thus the tradeoff is between:

that special tingling in everyone's nuts that we pulled out an OTL against the Isles thus empowering the team to rise to the top of the EC next year vs losing the game in regulation and getting closer to having as close to a game breaker as we possibly can.

If you don't think Carey Price was proof enough of what that pick can do, I dunno what is. No one here is hating on our team as has actually occurred at various points when we were actually IN the playoffs. We just want them to play well, but still get the reg loss.

You should see the tank threads on other boards. They are not f'in around, they have full calendars and prediction outcomes for all teams involved.

We deserve this pick for the awful season, not a mediocre string of games to REALLY make this season a failure.

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03-18-2012, 11:49 AM
  #88
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nice post but stop drinking the kool aid

we lack talent to compete with the great teams

we are years away
No. Good coaching + 2 good wingers + 1 good solid d-man, and we can compete with anyone.

That league is very even. we have better goals for and against than Florida... and they are third in the whole Conference.

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03-18-2012, 11:55 AM
  #89
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No. Good coaching + 2 good wingers + 1 good solid d-man, and we can compete with anyone.

That league is very even. we have better goals for and against than Florida... and they are third in the whole Conference.
Florida is leading in a weak division so to compare the Habs to them is a poor comparison. When you look at the top contenders in the conference ( Pens, Rangers, Flyers, Bruins) the Habs are years away from being true contenders to win the conference.

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03-18-2012, 12:14 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
This is why I question the NHL draft system. And it's about bloody time the NHL thought about it too.
Q. Given that Pitt, TB, Chi, STL, Col, Edm, Wash and a TON of other teams drafted superstars or at the very least a bunch of players who have helped them (or potentially will help them if they were coached well), wouldn't it be unfair to suddenly stop the current drafting method?

We didn't tank for years, have our fanbase forget who we were, then draft Malkin, Staal, Crosby (I don't count Fleury cuz IMO he sucks, but I guess he's enough given the team he has) and then have some of the most rabid "we are the bestest ever" fans who completely forgot they didn't care until they were...ahem...too big to fail (2010 playoffs ).

They did, and so did a lot of other fanbases. The capitals fans were going to hang Leonsis before the Ovi surge and what followed (although I'd stay in the owner's box these days if I were him).

Thing is, if you have sucked all season or collapse at the end of it, it's an indication that things are wrong. I don't think any team really tries to tank mid-season or something. They just plain suck. These remaining 15 or so games, yes the strategies might change, but take us as an example. We were in 29th. Prime position. Then we went on this streak suggesting the players don't in fact want to tank even though it would eventually make the fans happier. Even Toronto won last night and trust me, their fanbase couldn't be more pissed.

Wouldn't it be unfair that in all those seasons the leafs were drafting way higher than us due to playoff misses that all of a sudden, let's say this season, they revoked that policy (although the Leafs will catch us this year, they are terrrrrrible)?

I know what you're getting at. I do understand the sentiment and it's kind of the reason why I want to reap the "rewards" of this very unlikely year. We never draft high and thus have to rely on the shrewdness of Timmins or building through FA or trades rather than what has worked for a lot of teams. I'm just asking for ONE high pick and only cuz we're ALREADY here. I only became a tanker late in this season (i.e. when we were 25th or lower). Contrary to everyone's wishes, my wish (will never happen) would be to give Pleks a winger like Yakupov. I think our center situation is fine and that the problem is on the wings. We aren't going to improve it. I'm not holding out for René.

In the grand scheme of things, the teams that do badly get a high pick and that should enable them to do well in the coming years. It has in the majority of recent SC champions, worked in combination with good management. And since the actual Cup is so hard to win, let's also consider perennial contenders. Det is the only exception, maybe NJ, but their Cups we're enabled by high picks they acquired. Also both have exceptional GMs. Also, NJ had Gomez, who was...yes..a Calder trophy winner.

So, the system is designed to oppose the best teams staying the best teams and it does make sense. It gives the "99%" (hopefully you don't think I'm saying that 99% of the league needs a high pick) a chance to compete and it usually works. If it's unfair to reward teams that suck, consider the pain they endure by sucking, no better example than OUR season this this year. No other fanbase can stomach being this bad for even one year. The unfair part actually comes from the fact that we DO care so much and the lottery teams who have become contenders had disbanded their fanbase until it was convenient. Nash is another example. Carolina of years past.

I'm sure when the Oilers get their **** together they will be a very good team. Columbus, who freakin knows -- terrible team, terrible management, I don't blame Nash the least bit.

What does this mean for the Montreal Canadiens? With the talent we have coming up in the future (thank you Timmins and a little luck) plus a high pick this year, plus the guys already building a new foundation for this club, we will soon be perennial contenders, but that draft pick could make all the difference.

A single high pick can make a huge difference. How would you like a 50 goal-scoring Stamkos on our team? Obviously this year is not as great a draft, but they're good enough to eventually be as good if not better than the guys we've got already.

Gotta lose the next 3 games in reg and it's very doable. Minny is here to spoil the party.

Edit: just read your previous post about tanking and the abundance of ****** teams this year. Frustrating as hell indeed!


Last edited by habtastic: 03-18-2012 at 12:32 PM.
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03-18-2012, 12:27 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by NovaScotia Habsfan31 View Post
Florida is leading in a weak division so to compare the Habs to them is a poor comparison. When you look at the top contenders in the conference ( Pens, Rangers, Flyers, Bruins) the Habs are years away from being true contenders to win the conference.
point there was that they are well ahead of us in the standings. Also if you consider their division to be weak, look at who should be leading the division according to talent, but who isn't because the league is so precarious.

Rangers - have had a very good home grown team by adding the right pieces to complete the puzzle. Sather has learned, I guess? Oh yeah, and there was this trade...

Bruins - same thing combined with a 2nd overall pick (people forget he was actually present for those playoffs)

Flyers - a good draft year (i.e. a crap season) got them some picks that returned them to contention and again just adding a few pieces makes a huge difference. It's good to note here that the more talent you have that's young (i.e. draft) means the more you can spend on FAs

Pens - If Shero wasn't as good of a GM as he is, they wouldn't be as big a threat despite swimming in gold with high picks

So in all these cases, there were key pieces added that made them as good as they are. We are not far off from being able to go toe to toe with these teams. Carey Price makes that argument stronger. As long as we really start managing things properly and honestly...stay healthy. That IS a concern more for us than the others as they've accumulated depth.

BTW, I fully expect the Rangers to be gone in the first round. They're so beatable, something that scares me about facing them in our 9 remaining games.

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03-18-2012, 06:09 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by NovaScotia Habsfan31 View Post
Florida is leading in a weak division so to compare the Habs to them is a poor comparison. When you look at the top contenders in the conference ( Pens, Rangers, Flyers, Bruins) the Habs are years away from being true contenders to win the conference.
At the same sate last season, did you think that St-Louis Blues were years away from Cup contention ?

They have a good coach, a system, and two reliable goalies. That's about it !

At the beginning of the season under another coach, they wre just crap.

And where were the Sens last year ?

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03-18-2012, 06:40 PM
  #93
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Nope. That is far off the mark. A strong finish to your season leaves you motivated for the next season, while a crappy ending leaves you HOPING you get a good pick and there's a big chance that pick doesn't even turn into anything at the NHL level.

Leafs are the only team you can say have had above average second halves for a while now and still fail the next year. They have had a terrible team most of those years, with an ill-suited coach and average goaltending at best. Also, not much depth past their top two lines.

Then you look at New Jersey and see where they are after having a great finish to their season last year. They didn't roll over when they were pretty much dead last in the East, they fought hard and went on a very solid streak to end the season. Look where it brought them this year.

Detroit also fell far behind, I'm not sure if it was last year or the year before, but they fought back and never once stopped believing. Eventually, they made the playoffs.

Now look at the teams who have been finishing low for most of the past decades, teams like the Panthers and the Isles and the Oilers. They have so much young talent on their teams, but aside from the Panthers still fail every season. The Panthers are having a good season not because they have finishes last so much, but because they added some very key pieces in the offseason and decided they were going to make a huge push for the playoffs this year under new GM Dale Tallon.

A team like the Habs doesn't need to tank. They have built their core, they have a solid foundation for their future. That foundation is young and has so much potential. The best way to develop a young core is to put them to work night in and night out, to fight tooth and nail for that victory. Otherwise you're teaching them a losing attitude and not benefiting their development very much. It is nonsense to put too much pressure on them, putting them in every situation like some posters want here in order to tank. You play them like you would when you develop a young player in an established roster, and continue trying your hardest every game by playing your best players the most but at the same time giving your younger players certain opportunities to shine. One solid draft pick will hardly make a difference, anyone past Yakupov is an above average prospect at best. All you can do is HOPE that player will develop into something useful.

OR, you could root for the team to win even when everything is too far out of reach. It shows character and heart, and playing with effort will benefit both your young and veteran players for next year and will help them mentally, reassuring them that no matter what happens in the future that no one on this team will ever give up... even if their goal seems out of reach.

It disgusts me to see so many people hoping for their favorite team to lose, I don't care if you think that drafting one 18 year old can change our entire franchise because I know that he won't. He can develop into a great player, sure, but that is more luck than anything. We can draft a player at 12th overall and he can turn out to be better than almost everyone else in the draft. That's how drafting works: it is like the lottery.

So please, if you are a fan of this team you would hope for them to play well and succeed even when they are down and out, because you want your team to show conviction, heart and character for now and in the future. Because right now is where our core youth starts to get effective.
I was going to reply to this point by point but it's not worth it. Dude, if you don't understand why you're out to lunch on this I can't help you. Finishing strong does absolutely nothing for us.

It also doesn't matter a whole lot because there's nothing anyone can do. The club has to play to win. Personally I wouldv'e kept Markov out a few more games but apart from that there's nothing that the club can do. We can (and should) play younger players and maybe play our backup a little more but apart from that we have to try to win. So, as always I sit there with my Hab jersey when the games are on and just try to enjoy the games.

But I'm smart enough to know that we're better off losing. You'd have to be pretty blind not to see this.

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03-18-2012, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
At the same sate last season, did you think that St-Louis Blues were years away from Cup contention ?

They have a good coach, a system, and two reliable goalies. That's about it !

At the beginning of the season under another coach, they wre just crap.

And where were the Sens last year ?
Since 2006 St. Louis has amassed a wealth of young talent and hasn't been making shortsighted bandaid trades in an effort to barely make the playoffs.

Ottawa made a decison last year to sell as well with Fisher which was smart in hindsight of course.

Hitchcock has made an huge difference in St. Louis of course as the talent there has finally taken the huge leap forward since his hiring.

In fact I believe it was Hitchcock who said that all once Edmonton's young players learn how to protect the puck and play without the puck- once that clicks you'll see a huge step forward with them as well; of course they need the #1 goalie and a top pairing defenceman but they have the assets to go and get those.

In order for Montreal to make huge strides next year they'll have to go practically injury-free as their lack of depth and quality players has been exposed this year. And I don't consider 7th or 8th place a huge step forward either.

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03-18-2012, 07:15 PM
  #95
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The reason why we're having trouble tanking is simple: the Habs aren't a last-place team. We may not be a contender, but despite everything we're still closer to being the sixth-place team we were last year than the last-place team we've become. There was no logic to why we dropped this far (retrospective logic doesn't count) just like there was no logic to why teams like the Sens or Florida jumped so high.

But whatever the reasons, here we sit, two weeks away from a shot at a great pick. I don't know if this year has been a one-year hiccup or a foreshadowing of the famine to come, but I DO know a high draft pick is a rare opportunity. I also know that pick will have a bigger impact on this team than a few remaining games no one will remember. So for the next nine games let 'em play their hearts out as athletes always should; I'll be sitting there hoping for more losses than the Isles, Wild and Oilers, as long-term fans should.

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03-18-2012, 07:19 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
The reason why we're having trouble tanking is simple: the Habs aren't a last-place team. We may not be a contender, but despite everything we're still closer to being the sixth-place team we were last year than the last-place team we've become. There was no logic to why we dropped this far (retrospective logic doesn't count) just like there was no logic to why teams like the Sens or Florida jumped so high.
Wisniewski -> Emelin
Hamrlik -> Diaz

Regardless of what they look like right now, we dropped 2 big-minute players for 2 rookies. Markov was supposed to replace one of them, but he didn't play.

Pretty simple really. Gionta wasn't as good, Plekanec had a tough year, Cammalleri struggled...boom, no offensive depth. That can't really be prepared for in the offseason though.

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03-18-2012, 07:24 PM
  #97
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Wrong. Not this year. The only difference is that you don't have the luxury of choosing which player you pick. Otherwise, #7 or 8 could easily end up being better pros than #3 or 4.
I'd much rather let Timmins pick with the #3 overall than the #8 overall. I understand what you mean, and I agree it isn't the best year to tank. But let's put it this way, you might have the chance to pick your guy with the 8th overall pick. It could be the difference between Grigorenko and Trouba. Nothing against the latter, but I'd much rather have Grigorenko at this point when you factor in everything. I'm against drafting by need and we should always go BPA but this franchise desperately needs to draft a GREAT forward. We have enough prospect blueliners as it is and not much up front.

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03-18-2012, 10:14 PM
  #98
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Its good to build some chemistry, but all in all I'm still hoping for top 3 pick, could be huge moving foward to get a top six foward who can put the puck in the net, for too many years now we have struggled to score, especially 5on5. Defense can be taught, but prolific scoring is a talent.
That said...I always feel good when the Habs put up a W, next year is another season.
Getting a good GM, a good coach, and trying to keep the media circus out of the players dressing room are all issues I'm hoping will be addressed. Too many distractions this season have really made the hockey season worse than it had to be.

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03-18-2012, 10:19 PM
  #99
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a point loss in ot to buff, ott and ny we would be 6 back.. jets and caps lose tonight

i know we need to tank and get a pick, just nice to have some playoff games to watch..

we are not that far away, lost a lot of close games, a lot of shootouts..

get rid of gomez free up some coin i call the season a success

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03-19-2012, 12:31 AM
  #100
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I just want the team to play with pride and the organization to uphold the integrity of the league by not tanking games. Then we can let the chips fall where the may. In the meantime, I'll enjoy watching cole and pacioretty play.

There are a few things to address but I take comfort in the fact that this is not a situation where the habs will continue to be a bottom feeder going into next year or for years to come. There are actually a few things to look forward to.


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