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Habs lose in shootout. Get a Point. Everyone is pissed.

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Old
03-18-2012, 11:36 AM
  #126
Shabutie
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
You're certainly entitled to your own opinion about Subban's skating. Doesn't mean it's a good one though. He's probably the fastest skater on this team and keep in mind he plays half the game out there for us.

"choppy" .. lol.. what is this figure skating?

And I will not even ask where you got this notion that Emelin is a more fluid skater. That's just really "out there".
I'm not sure if you've watched the habs this year...to throw out that Subban is probably the fastest skater on this team then tell me that my opinion isn't a good one...? Subban is slightly above average on this team when it comes to speed. He's surpassed by guys like Gomez,Cole, Pacioretty, Eller and if I'm not mistaken Desharnais also beat him in the speed test.

When you talk about fluid skating, there is no more fluid than Figure skating... A guy like Duncan Keith shows what fluid skating is.

I got the notion that Emelin is a more fluid skater by watching him play. Emelin has one of the better skating techniques on this team (if not the best). You have to look at more than just a players speed to judge their technique. The arch of the players back, how far apart their knees are, the angle of their knees,etc. tells you how good a players technique is. Russians are known for being some of the most fluid skaters in hockey (and figure skating...) and Emelin is a good example of why that is imo.

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03-18-2012, 11:38 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
I'm not sure if you've watched the habs this year...to throw out that Subban is probably the fastest skater on this team then tell me that my opinion isn't a good one...? Subban is slightly above average on this team when it comes to speed. He's surpassed by guys like Gomez,Cole, Pacioretty, Eller and if I'm not mistaken Desharnais also beat him in the speed test.

When you talk about fluid skating, there is no more fluid than Figure skating... A guy like Duncan Keith shows what fluid skating is.

I got the notion that Emelin is a more fluid skater by watching him play. Emelin has one of the better skating techniques on this team (if not the best). You have to look at more than just a players speed to judge their technique. The arch of the players back, how far apart their knees are, the angle of their knees,etc. tells you how good a players technique is. Russians are known for being some of the most fluid skaters in hockey (and figure skating...) and Emelin is a good example of why that is imo.
Yeah okay, show me the stats where Desharnais Gomez, Eller beat him in the speed test. That's pretty laughable. Subban IS almost like a figure skater, his speed and skating were his main attributes when he was drafted and he's won skating competitions himself while he was here. I call baloney on all of this unless I see some numbers. And yeah, you watching Emelin and admiring his speed really says something about your observation skills. Never have I thought that he was a barn burner.

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03-18-2012, 11:42 AM
  #128
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Putting Desharnais in the discussion was all I had to see.

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03-18-2012, 11:43 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
No he doesn't, look at the PK minutes and you will see that Subban had more than him last year and on a better team also while having better Crosi, QualComp. I'm not sure about this year though, but evidence is there that it's probably not a fluke.
I did.

2010-2011

Gill: Toi per 60 : 3:58
Subban: 2:44

2011-2012

Gill: 3:41
Subban: 2:37

Though I agree about Subban's GA stats not being a fluke, like I said, he's damn good at limiting shots/scoring chances.

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Old
03-18-2012, 11:45 AM
  #130
poetryinmotion
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Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
I did.

2010-2011

Gill: Toi per 60 : 3:58
Subban: 2:44

2011-2012

Gill: 3:41
Subban: 2:37

Though I agree about Subban's GA stats not being a fluke, like I said, he's damn good at limiting shots/scoring chances.
Cool, I stand corrected, he logged more pk time my bad.

Gill really should just be a PK specialist from now on, though. Subban can more than eat up his fair share of PK minutes.

It's as Watsatheo said, he did his job here, and Subban is more mature right now because of it, but let's not overstate Gill's usefulness.

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03-18-2012, 12:00 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
I didn't say the stats showed that Gill isn't one of the best PK'ers in the league. You got it all wrong, I even re-iterated in my second reply that this was not what I was going for. Just saying that Gill's presence on the PK was either overblown or not enough love went to Subban for his better efforts. That's why our PK didn't miss a beat after he left.
My original point was that Subban wasn't getting any props for his PKing and was filling in Gill's minutes almost flawlessly.

My defense of Gill however came from these comments:

"Gill being a monster on the PK is a myth."
"Alright, he is pretty decent on the PK I have not said otherwise."
"Let's not overrate him because he is a Predator now."

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Old
03-18-2012, 12:06 PM
  #132
poetryinmotion
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
My original point was that Subban wasn't getting any props for his PKing and was filling in Gill's minutes almost flawlessly.

My defense of Gill however came from these comments:

"Gill being a monster on the PK is a myth."
"Alright, he is pretty decent on the PK I have not said otherwise."
"Let's not overrate him because he is a Predator now."
All valid arguments, though.

I guess I didn't fully comprehend your original point. To me it sounded like you were surprized that no media outlet took notice of Subban being so good on the PK this year as in I took it as you saying that Gill was better and now Subban deserves some of the recognition for the nice job he's done since.

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03-18-2012, 12:10 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I'm surprised no media outlets are taking notice how effect PK is on the PK.

This year he's been on the ice for 8 PPGA in 181:12 minutes of SH time. A ridiculous 22+ min of penalty killing for every PPGA.

Last year he was on the ice for 11 PPGA in 195:27 minutes of SH time. Almost 18 min of penalty killing for every PPGA.

Both years he's been the best on the team, this year especially. Scary part is he's actually been on the ice for only 1 PPGA since Gill's trade and him taking over 1st unit PK.
montreal media and fans talk about good news?lol ya ok.i m sure fans are mad at pk cause he s having a good finish to the season.seems to me like everyone would rather whine and cry instead of cheer for the habs.how bout some props for pg for signing cole?

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Old
03-18-2012, 12:13 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Yeah okay, show me the stats where Desharnais Gomez, Eller beat him in the speed test. That's pretty laughable. Subban IS almost like a figure skater, his speed and skating were his main attributes when he was drafted and he's won skating competitions himself while he was here. I call baloney on all of this unless I see some numbers. And yeah, you watching Emelin and admiring his speed really says something about your observation skills. Never have I thought that he was a barn burner.
Actually, Shabutie is right in saying that Subban's skating style is kinda choppy. Emelin's skating style is indeed much more fluid. That being said, Subban compensates for his lack of skating fluidity in sheer athleticism.

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Old
03-18-2012, 12:17 PM
  #135
Young Gun
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I have to say that since the asw, pk really did picked up his game, maybe even moreso since gill left. If he carry's it to next season, he will have a much better
year then he did this season. Got to give credit where credit is due and pk deserves it
for the job he's done in the last 20 games or so.

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Old
03-18-2012, 12:18 PM
  #136
poetryinmotion
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Originally Posted by NRG87 View Post
Actually, Shabutie is right in saying that Subban's skating style is kinda choppy. Emelin's skating style is indeed much more fluid. That being said, Subban compensates for his lack of skating fluidity in sheer athleticism.
Sure, because he is Russian right? He has to be able to skate better, it's what they do

Honestly, I don't know what you're talking about.

I've never heard of anyone accolading Emelin for his skating prowess, which isn't even part of his game. This is clearly a stereotype.

This is everyone's cop out with Subban, he's bad at everything but makes up for it with sheer athleticism. And now his skating comes into question?

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03-18-2012, 12:20 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by NRG87 View Post
Actually, Shabutie is right in saying that Subban's skating style is kinda choppy. Emelin's skating style is indeed much more fluid. That being said, Subban compensates for his lack of skating fluidity in sheer athleticism.
I'd agree, actually. And it's that athleticism that translates into speed, strong edges, and a quick first step. Certainly more "choppy" than, say, Emelin (though where this comparison came from, I don't know), but it still gets PK around faster than the rest of them.

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03-18-2012, 12:22 PM
  #138
Young Gun
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Originally Posted by NRG87 View Post
Actually, Shabutie is right in saying that Subban's skating style is kinda choppy. Emelin's skating style is indeed much more fluid. That being said, Subban compensates for his lack of skating fluidity in sheer athleticism.
Does it matter who's faster then who, they all skated like figure skater's this year.
For how well the team played, they should have put the tighs and skirts on, for crying out loud. On some nights this winter, I could have out skating most of them.
lol

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Old
03-18-2012, 12:25 PM
  #139
poetryinmotion
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I'd agree, actually. And it's that athleticism that translates into speed, strong edges, and a quick first step. Certainly more "choppy" than, say, Emelin (though where this comparison came from, I don't know), but it still gets PK around faster than the rest of them.
Again, what the hell is choppy skating and why are we calling Emelin a fluid skater to put down Subban's skating ability. What is this nonsense all of a sudden.

He plays 23-28 mins a game, you can't expect him to be in 6th gear always, he needs to pace himself. This is why some of you may perceive he is choppy.


Last edited by poetryinmotion: 03-18-2012 at 12:30 PM.
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03-18-2012, 12:30 PM
  #140
Watsatheo
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Again, what the hell is choppy skating and why are we calling Emelin a fluid skater to put down Subban's skating ability. What is this nonsense all of a sudden.
Fluid skating is having strides that exert little effort and still be able to reach high speeds.

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03-18-2012, 12:30 PM
  #141
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Again, what the hell is choppy skating and why are we calling Emelin a fluid skater to put down Subban's skating ability. What is this nonsense all of a sudden.
Compare the differences in "efficiency" or "economy" of stride. Subban has a fairly long, high kick to his stride, and looks like he starts off pounding each stride into the ice sometimes with how high he pulls his knees up in front of him, too. Emelin, imo, looks like he has a more fluid stride that keeps his edges on the ice longer (ironically, like figure skating, lol), looks like it uses less energy, but doesn't move him as quickly - either at top speed or when changing direction.

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03-18-2012, 12:37 PM
  #142
poetryinmotion
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Compare the differences in "efficiency" or "economy" of stride. Subban has a fairly long, high kick to his stride, and looks like he starts off pounding each stride into the ice sometimes with how high he pulls his knees up in front of him, too. Emelin, imo, looks like he has a more fluid stride that keeps his edges on the ice longer, looks like it uses less energy, but doesn't move him as quickly - either at top speed or when changing direction.
Okay, so he has poor technique in his stride, In other words? Very well. But does that prevent him from being one of if not the fastest skaters on the team? Subban has flaws but why the **** are people on him abotu his skating now like Shabitue.

Quote:
Subban is slightly above average on this team when it comes to speed. He's surpassed by guys like Gomez,Cole, Pacioretty, Eller and if I'm not mistaken Desharnais
come on, really? Jump off a bridge.

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03-18-2012, 12:39 PM
  #143
habtastic
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Sure, because he is Russian right? He has to be able to skate better, it's what they do

Honestly, I don't know what you're talking about.

I've never heard of anyone accolading Emelin for his skating prowess, which isn't even part of his game. This is clearly a stereotype.

This is everyone's cop out with Subban, he's bad at everything but makes up for it with sheer athleticism. And now his skating comes into question?
I have to agree with the assessment that Emelin is a more fluid skater and PK is an amazing skater but less fluid, however it's his skating WITH the puck that makes him stand out. Either way, both great skaters, nothing taken away from PK, but his frame and his technique beget a different style from Emelin.

Again, both great, but for different reasons. I have to say, Emelin with the puck is pretty impressive compared to what I expected.

Who would I rather see with the puck on his stick charging forward to the chants of his name? Yeah, M. Always On.

BTW both have patented and AWESOME checking styles. Bee-sting vs classic hip check.

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03-18-2012, 12:40 PM
  #144
Watsatheo
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Okay, so he has poor technique in his stride, In other words? Very well. But does that prevent him from being one of if not the fastest skaters on the team? Subban has flaws but why the **** are people on him abotu his skating now like Shabitue.

come on, really? Jump off a bridge.
Why are you taking everything so personally.

So someone thinks a couple players on our team are faster than Subban...

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03-18-2012, 12:41 PM
  #145
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Why are you taking everything so personally.

So someone thinks a couple players are faster than Subban...
Fallout from the Halak vs Price debates.

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03-18-2012, 12:42 PM
  #146
poetryinmotion
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Why are you taking everything so personally.

So someone thinks a couple players are faster than Subban...
You're right I need to step back right now. Whatever, people will always find things to criticize Subban for, even though they are his strenghts. I will never get used to it though.

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03-18-2012, 12:45 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
makes sense...
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He's talking about Bourque as being the terrible asset, not Holland...
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
re-read... the name in that sentence is Holland, not Bourque.
A little late to the argument but still, a precision is in order : yes I was referring to Bourque as an awful asset, as I was talking about him earlier in the paragraph ; probably not my best phrasing ever but my point was : Bourque is an awful acquisition but I don't know enough about Holland to trash the trade as a whole (maybe he's the hiden gem we were targetting in the trade).

If Holland was a prayer and Bourque the primary target of the trade = Big Fail

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03-18-2012, 12:45 PM
  #148
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Okay, so he has poor technique in his stride, In other words? Very well. But does that prevent him from being one of if not the fastest skaters on the team? Subban has flaws but why the **** are people on him abotu his skating now like Shabitue.
No, not really. If the result is that you're above average in both speed, ability to change direction, and get away with your first step, your technique isn't necessarily "bad"; it's just different. That kind of stride probably gets slower with age more quickly though, unless the player maintains crazy Chelios or Lidstrom dedication to training. Subban is quite the athlete, as has been repeated often already, so probably a while before we have to revisit that one.

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03-18-2012, 12:45 PM
  #149
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You're right I need to step back right now. Whatever, people will always find things to criticize Subban for, even though they are his strenghts. I will never get used to it though.
what do you expect, the guy cost us a huge point last night due to said skating ability

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03-18-2012, 12:46 PM
  #150
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You're right I need to step back right now. Whatever, people will always find things to criticize Subban for, even though they are his strenghts. I will never get used to it though.
After reading your post I have no choice but to come out and say that I hate Plekanec because Pacioretty has a better shot than him.

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