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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread VIII

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Old
03-17-2012, 09:31 PM
  #76
CNS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
well...Gagnes concussion really concernes me so
we would have to plan without him....
i see next year like that:

Brown - Kopitar - Wiliams
??? - Richards - Carter
???/Parse - Loktionov - ???
Clifford - Lewis - ???

to much ? for my taste
Well the Kings can re-sign Quick on July 1. Since that's obviously the plan, if they can get that done quickly (DO YOU SEE THE PUN I DID THERE?!!?!?!), maybe they look to package Bernier for another top 6 winger?

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03-17-2012, 09:33 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
???/Parse
Not so fast there, mi amigo.

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Old
03-17-2012, 09:35 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
well...Gagnes concussion really concernes me so
we would have to plan without him....
i see next year like that:

Brown - Kopitar - Wiliams
??? - Richards - Carter
???/Parse - Loktionov - ???
Clifford - Lewis - ???

to much ? for my taste
Call me crazy, but I think King is going to play before Parse.


Last edited by Flour Child: 03-17-2012 at 11:35 PM.
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Old
03-17-2012, 10:33 PM
  #79
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Weren't the Kings paying Handzus $4 million per year? I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that similar numbers would be offered to Gaustad, by the Kings or otherwise.

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Old
03-17-2012, 11:05 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
The optimism doesn't lie in believing we can roll three scoring lines unlike most of the NHL. The optimism lies in believing it is a forgone conclusion we will acquire a first line left wing this summer. In all likeliness, we enter next season with a filler and the same roster minus Penner and maybe Stoll. That and believing Toffoli will be in the lineup, which is far from certain as well. He will likely be in Manchester.

We are really looking at:

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Gagne?-Richards-Carter
King-???-Lewis
Clifford-???-Westgarth/Nolan

Even if we were to acquire a Parise or some top left wing, I am not a huge fan of breaking up our two lines with the most chemistry on the team, spreading them out in hopes of rolling 9 scoring forwards. We would be looking at:

???-Kopitar-Williams
???-Richards-Brown
King-???-???
Clifford-???-Nolan/Westgarth

It is unlikely Lombardi acts so drastically.

I can see Lombardi giving Gagne another go, re-signing Parse as an extra forward, and having Loktionov, Kozun, and Toffoli in reserves and rolling with it, especially after our top 6 lighting things up at the end of this year.

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Gagne-Richards-Carter
King-Loktionov-Lewis
Clifford-Richardson-Nolan
Westgarth
Well maybe you hit the nail on the head. You have used the word optimism an awful lot in laying out your opinion. I guess that is where we are truly differing on this one if only in differing ways.

By the way I haven't yet mentioned Parise or anyone else for that matter as our solution at LW, just thought it was worth mentioning.

Two different ways of seeing things I guess.

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Old
03-17-2012, 11:05 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
Weren't the Kings paying Handzus $4 million per year? I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that similar numbers would be offered to Gaustad, by the Kings or otherwise.
Ugh I would really hate that

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Old
03-18-2012, 07:57 AM
  #82
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I would love DL if he could get Suter and Whitney.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Dustin Brown ($3.175m) / Anze Kopitar ($6.800m) / Justin Williams ($3.650m)
Jeff Carter ($5.273m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Dwight King ($0.900m)
Ray Whitney ($4.500m) / Trevor Lewis ($0.725m) / Kyle Clifford ($0.870m)
Alex Frolov ($2.000m) / Colin Fraser ($0.850m) / Jordan Nolan ($0.532m)
Simon Gagne ($3.500m) / Kevin Westgarth ($0.725m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Drew Doughty ($7.000m) / Ryan Suter ($6.600m)
Vyacheslav Voinov ($0.817m) / Willie Mitchell ($3.500m)
Matt Greene ($2.950m) / Alec Martinez ($0.738m)
Davis Drewiske ($0.617m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Quick ($1.800m)
Jonathan Bernier ($1.250m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,520,227; BONUSES: $130,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster):- $220,227

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Old
03-18-2012, 08:02 AM
  #83
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What I want to see next year.


Parise(I know pipe dream) LW UFA/Kopitar/Williams
Carter/Richards/Brown
Gagne/Loki/King
Clifford/Frasher(Lewis)/Nolan.

If Gagne goes down call up Someone like Kozun/Tofolli/Vey.

Defense is set, not much need to add there. Mybe give Hickey a cup of coffee see what he can do. Then trade him or A-Mart for some scoring depth(A young winger in a similar situation).

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Old
03-18-2012, 12:10 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor Boarding View Post
I would love DL if he could get Suter and Whitney.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Dustin Brown ($3.175m) / Anze Kopitar ($6.800m) / Justin Williams ($3.650m)
Jeff Carter ($5.273m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Dwight King ($0.900m)
Ray Whitney ($4.500m) / Trevor Lewis ($0.725m) / Kyle Clifford ($0.870m)
Alex Frolov ($2.000m) / Colin Fraser ($0.850m) / Jordan Nolan ($0.532m)
Simon Gagne ($3.500m) / Kevin Westgarth ($0.725m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Drew Doughty ($7.000m) / Ryan Suter ($6.600m)
Vyacheslav Voinov ($0.817m) / Willie Mitchell ($3.500m)
Matt Greene ($2.950m) / Alec Martinez ($0.738m)
Davis Drewiske ($0.617m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Quick ($1.800m)
Jonathan Bernier ($1.250m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,520,227; BONUSES: $130,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster):- $220,227


What year do you imagine this is?

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Old
03-18-2012, 12:28 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor Boarding View Post
I would love DL if he could get Suter and Whitney.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Dustin Brown ($3.175m) / Anze Kopitar ($6.800m) / Justin Williams ($3.650m)
Jeff Carter ($5.273m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Dwight King ($0.900m)
Ray Whitney ($4.500m) / Trevor Lewis ($0.725m) / Kyle Clifford ($0.870m)
Alex Frolov ($2.000m) / Colin Fraser ($0.850m) / Jordan Nolan ($0.532m)
Simon Gagne ($3.500m) / Kevin Westgarth ($0.725m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Drew Doughty ($7.000m) / Ryan Suter ($6.600m)
Vyacheslav Voinov ($0.817m) / Willie Mitchell ($3.500m)
Matt Greene ($2.950m) / Alec Martinez ($0.738m)
Davis Drewiske ($0.617m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Quick ($1.800m)
Jonathan Bernier ($1.250m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,520,227; BONUSES: $130,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster):- $220,227
Aside from the aforementioned listing of Frolov in your lineup... Where is Scuderi?

I would not be a fan of acquiring Ray Whitney for the third line.


Last edited by RonSwanson*: 03-18-2012 at 02:16 PM.
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Old
03-18-2012, 01:05 PM
  #86
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For next season I see at least one of the following kids being in our line up.

Toffi (will likely start or spend the season in Manchester but I have only missed one of the 67's games this year (either in person or via Vid) and saw most of his games last year and he has taken yet another step forward in his progression. He rises to the challenge each time he is called. That doesn't make him NHL ready but he is close.

AndyAndy

Nolan/Clifford and then this coming season Andy Andy. He plays the same style of game and is a really smart player. Bottom 6er that would let us put Nolan at center if we wanted. I think Andy Andy has more potential to be a 15 to 20 goal scoring 3rd liner with grit then some but he plays a hard smart game and has been making himself ready this year to make the jump.

Kozun

He has all of the skill and determination needed to play in the NHL. Is he ready to do so? Don't know for certain but I see in Kozun allot of the same thing that I have seen in A Mart, King, Nolan, Lewis etc that others have missed and that is that they are playing like young frustrated guys who believe or know that they are NHL ready but instead of focusing on being the best AHLer they can they sort of drift into this weird lack of focus at times. Then camp comes around and boom, they are ready for the NHL and regain their focus.

To me this is exactly where Kozun is at in his development. He is a top 6er who is best suited for 3rd line duty to me but wherever he ends up on the team I think he will do well.

I have heard that Moshie Kitsyn will be in camp this year. It seems optimistic to me but that is what I have heard. He would be my dark horse candidate if he indeed comes over to make the team out of camp. He could slot right into our top 6 at LW and become a very good top 6er for us. I want him to be our 3rd line monster for a couple of years before he steps into his role as our 2nd line LW but that is me.

If have seen three of his games this year and he might need to spend a season in Manchester, hard to say but he looks so good that I could see him make it.

With the exception of O'B and the potential of our signing Brown in the next day or so I am most optimistic about those kids making the team (one of those listed) next season.

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Old
03-18-2012, 01:18 PM
  #87
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I wouldn't be shocked to see Fraser resigned, probably wouldn't cost much. You can tell DL and Sutter like what he adds and his experience. I'm curious to see where Penner goes and for how much. These remaining games could be huge for Penner and LA in the playoff push.
I don't see LA being too active in the FA market this offseason. I'm expecting close to nothing, though a Parise would be great, I'm not expecting it. Small moves, maybe prospect for picks or prospects type deals.

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Old
03-18-2012, 01:46 PM
  #88
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So I'm really the ONLY guy who doesn't want Fraser back next year?!

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03-18-2012, 01:47 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I have heard that Moshie Kitsyn will be in camp this year. It seems optimistic to me but that is what I have heard. He would be my dark horse candidate if he indeed comes over to make the team out of camp.

Isn't Russia owed another year? If so, can a deal be reached to get Kitsyn out of it? If so, what kind of deal? A large cash payment (like $1 million)???

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Old
03-18-2012, 01:55 PM
  #90
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Isn't Russia owed another year? If so, can a deal be reached to get Kitsyn out of it? If so, what kind of deal? A large cash payment (like $1 million)???
Yeah he's got another year in Russia. Problem is I don't think anyone knows if he has an out clause and I doubt he does or else he'd probably be in NA this year.

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Old
03-18-2012, 02:00 PM
  #91
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So I'm really the ONLY guy who doesn't want Fraser back next year?!
I don't want him either. What are the odds he will be the best of the 50 players almost exactly like him who are UFAs? About 2%?

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03-18-2012, 02:42 PM
  #92
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So I'm really the ONLY guy who doesn't want Fraser back next year?!
Not. Fraser is a dime a dozen type a player. Very good attitude, decent skating and some defensive hockeysense, but no size or skill.
57 games, one goal and six assists, -2 - that says everything.

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03-18-2012, 03:16 PM
  #93
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....57 games, one goal and six assists, -2 - that says everything.
Actually, it doesn't. He brings an attitude to the game that we need. He's got a nasty side to him the Kings generally lack. He's good in the corners and on the forecheck. He's not afraid of the high or low slot. He sets a tone and aggressive style that is a positive image for these kids coming up from Manchester and elsewhere.

We just start to get all these players, the whole team, working off the same page; that is, seeing and feeling each other on the ice at game speed, starting to enjoy some success and everyone here is ready to plug in three or four new guys because "those kind of guys are a dime a dozen and easily replaceable". Sure. We can go out and get four or five "replaceables" at the start of every season, or at the trade deadline, or every month. Then we can all sit around and complain about how the team is playing like "pickup team" for three or four months.

Hockey is an improvisational game. This may sound weird, but improvisation at game speed requires a lot of practice and game experience as a whole unit.

Short version of long rant - don't discount the value of role players and don't discount the value of roster stability in creating winning hockey on the ice.

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Old
03-18-2012, 03:49 PM
  #94
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If Fraser brought just one more skill to the table, like being a good faceoff guy, a big hitter, a great fighter, a decent set of hands, anything, I'd be all for keeping him.

I wouldn't be mad if he was offered another contract but it seems like he's the type of guy you make a deadline move to replace if you're planning on making a serious playoff push. He mostly sat when the Hawks did their cup runs. Why not just sign that deadline acquisition in summer instead of trading a mid round pick for one?

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03-18-2012, 03:57 PM
  #95
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If Fraser brought just one more skill to the table, like being a good faceoff guy, a big hitter, a great fighter, a decent set of hands, anything, I'd be all for keeping him.

I wouldn't be mad if he was offered another contract but it seems like he's the type of guy you make a deadline move to replace if you're planning on making a serious playoff push. He mostly sat when the Hawks did their cup runs. Why not just sign that deadline acquisition in summer instead of trading a mid round pick for one?
Exactly. I think Fraser plays admirably but he IS a dime a dozen player who doesn't really have any type of desirable skill that makes him a must sign.

I mean people are still saying the Jury is out on Stoll JUST because of his faceoffs. And Stoll has been brutal **** all season. Yet there is still talk of keeping him because of a single skill.

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Old
03-18-2012, 03:58 PM
  #96
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It a'int broke, so I don't see any reason to fix it. He's a decent fourth line center who has won a Stanley Cup. He may not excel at any particular aspect of the game, but he is decent enough to do everything. He plays hard, forechecks, is decent at faceoffs, willing to drop the gloves, plays the penalty kill, and welcomes physical play. Why mess with it? He's been fine for us.

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03-18-2012, 04:07 PM
  #97
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It a'int broke, so I don't see any reason to fix it. He's a decent fourth line center who has won a Stanley Cup. He may not excel at any particular aspect of the game, but he is decent enough to do everything. He plays hard, forechecks, is decent at faceoffs, willing to drop the gloves, plays the penalty kill, and welcomes physical play. Why mess with it? He's been fine for us.
Sorry but this is a terrible argment. Guys like Greg Campbell, Jay McClement, Paul Gaustad are all free agents. All 3 of those guys bring so much more than Fraser but because Fraser "isn't broke", we shouldn't upgrade that position. I'd even rather have Zenon Konopka than Fras. We should really be spending this offseason upgrading our 3rd and 4th lines. Clifford and Fraser have both had really bad years. The difference between Clifford and Fras is that Clifford has potential to be a lot better. Nolan should be back on the 4th line next year and sadly Westgarth will be back too.

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03-18-2012, 04:09 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
Sorry but this is a terrible argment. Guys like Greg Campbell, Jay McClement, Paul Gaustad are all free agents. All 3 of those guys bring so much more than Fraser but because Fraser "isn't broke", we shouldn't upgrade that position. I'd even rather have Zenon Konopka than Fras. We should really be spending this offseason upgrading our 3rd and 4th lines. Clifford and Fraser have both had really bad years. The difference between Clifford and Fras is that Clifford has potential to be a lot better. Nolan should be back on the 4th line next year and sadly Westgarth will be back too.
Your argument isn't much better if you expect us to drop $4 million on a fourth line center. This should be the last place we should be looking to drop all our cap space and assets. The top 6 and the third line will require a lot more attention this offseason than the fourth line does... Nitpicking over the fourth line is laughable at this point.

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03-18-2012, 04:16 PM
  #99
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On Kitsyn,

He does have a clause that allows him out of his KHL obligations and that was invoked when he didn't play the entire season on his parent club.

He is also allowed to have his contract bought out (at a certain amount of cents on the dollar that I don't know) as does most every other player in the KHL.

Finally the NHL and the KHL have an agreement that allows for a player to leave for either league as long as everyone agrees to the move which typically means that the money has to be right for that to happen.

In Kitsyn's case he can simply walk on his deal in the KHL as a result of this past seasons movement. The ramifications would come if or when he decided to go back to the KHL.

That said Maxim isn't the kind of person to simply walk on any obligation so something will likely have to be worked out.

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03-18-2012, 04:25 PM
  #100
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Your argument isn't much better if you expect us to drop $4 million on a fourth line center. This should be the last place we should be looking to drop all our cap space and assets. The top 6 and the third line will require a lot more attention this offseason than the fourth line does... Nitpicking over the fourth line is laughable at this point.
Not one of those guys makes $4M so I'm not sure where you're coming up with that. Gaustad makes the most at $2.3M but the other 3 both make under $2M. Even if we don't sign one of those, I'd rather see Cliche get a shot than Fraser.

And I know everyone wants to talk about improving the top 6 but how are we going to do that? Who are you suggesting we get? With Dean Lombardi as GM, there's no way we're ever getting Parise and outside of him, who do you want to see? Semin, Huselius, and Doan are the only 3 I think we should really be going after in free agency. Doan will re-sign in PHX, Semin is such a HUGE question mark with his work ethic, and Huselius is oft injured. I think most fans have to accept the fact that our top 6 is most likely going to stay the same with the hopes that Gagne can push King down a line. Hell Dean re-signing Parse wouldn't shock me in hopes he can finally be a top 6 guy Dean somehow thinks he can be.

Then go to the 3rd line. Gagne is again a giant question mark. If he's healthy, him or King are the 3rd line LWer. Lokti is most likely the 3rd line center and unless Dean ships him out this summer, you have to assume that is his job full time next year. 3rd line RW could really use an upgrade over Lewis so there's one hole to fill.

Plus then since Lewis will still be under contract, he's got a 4th line spot at least. That's Clifford, Lewis, Westgarth and Richardson all under contract for next years 4th line. Westy will obviously only be in for like 30 games again next year meaning the regular 4th line will have to consist of Lewis and Richardson unless we bring someone in. That is far too soft of a 4th line with not enough offense to make up for it. So you don't think we need a 4th line center upgrade?

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