HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Larry Carrière, A Hidden Gem ?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-16-2012, 10:21 PM
  #26
EmelinHipCheck
Registered User
 
EmelinHipCheck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 706
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood View Post
I wonder what happened with him and the Sabres in 2004? He was there for 20 years, working his way up from amateur scout for 10 years. Direct of player development for 7 years then assistant GM for 3 years only to leave in '04 to be pro scout for the Capitals. Quite a step backwards? Doesn't sound like pedigree of success.

Writer did a slack job of researching his work however. Never mentioned Carrière holds a Bachelor of Commerce and Major in Business Administration from Loyola College in Montreal.
Loyola is not a college, it's a campus, affiliated to Condordia.

EmelinHipCheck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2012, 10:24 PM
  #27
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 7,981
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood View Post
Writer did a slack job of researching his work however. Never mentioned Carrière holds a Bachelor of Commerce and Major in Business Administration from Loyola College in Montreal.
It's totally irrelevant whether or not he has any random degree.

In the case of Brian Burke, his Harvard degree is mentioned, because it's interesting.

However, in general,

What matters is his hockey knowledge and effectiveness, not his ability to complete multiple choice tests at Concordia.

DAChampion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2012, 10:43 PM
  #28
onice
Registered User
 
onice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 6,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongLiveTheKing View Post
Loyola is not a college, it's a campus, affiliated to Condordia.
When Larry went there it was a college and not part of Concordia. Actually Concordia didn't exist.

onice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2012, 10:47 PM
  #29
EmelinHipCheck
Registered User
 
EmelinHipCheck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 706
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
When Larry went there it was a college and not part of Concordia. Actually Concordia didn't exist.
I stand corrected.

EmelinHipCheck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2012, 11:40 PM
  #30
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It's totally irrelevant whether or not he has any random degree.

In the case of Brian Burke, his Harvard degree is mentioned, because it's interesting.

However, in general,

What matters is his hockey knowledge and effectiveness, not his ability to complete multiple choice tests at Concordia.
Hockey is a business. Wether you like it or not, if the GM, President, Headscouts etc have no knowledge of any business, management etc.. Its bad.

All Gm's are great minds. Not only EX brainless Hockey player.

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2012, 11:56 PM
  #31
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 7,981
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Hockey is a business. Wether you like it or not, if the GM, President, Headscouts etc have no knowledge of any business, management etc.. Its bad.

All Gm's are great minds. Not only EX brainless Hockey player.
Did Sam Pollock take a lot of multiple choice tests at a third tier university? Did Scotty Bowman? Did they know power point?

Also, I think you're overestimating what people might learn in a Concordia business degree ...


Last edited by DAChampion: 03-17-2012 at 12:02 AM.
DAChampion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 12:07 PM
  #32
FiveForDrawingBlood
Registered User
 
FiveForDrawingBlood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongLiveTheKing View Post
Read this article, then post your views. Please do not make this a bashing thread.
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Steve...s-GM/139/42393
I'd like to read who Carrier drafted in drafts, didn't like etc... Sabres 10 years he was their Quebec scout, he should been in on a lot of drafts. Why did he leave the Sabres after 20 years building his way up in their system to take a lousy pro-scouting job? Go from assistant GM to pro scout is huge step back. He ran the Sabres in 1997, how did he do there? Be many questions needs looking at before he logical choice as Habs GM

FiveForDrawingBlood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2012, 12:22 PM
  #33
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,507
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Hockey is a business. Wether you like it or not, if the GM, President, Headscouts etc have no knowledge of any business, management etc.. Its bad.

All Gm's are great minds. Not only EX brainless Hockey player.
Hockey is indeed a business, and the business men are the owners and CEO. The GM doesn't need to be super business savvy. He has to be a good negotiator, which is something you'll most likely get from a Law degree, not a MBA.
The most important thing you need to have however, is hockey knowledge. If you can't recognize talent, then you won't be able to evaluate its worth either, which, in the end, will make you a bad negotiator.

And headscouts need no business background. They evaluate talent.

As a GM, you'll benefit a lot more from a Law degree than any commerce, finance or MBA.

Kriss E is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 09:29 AM
  #34
Joe Cole
Registered User
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Did Sam Pollock take a lot of multiple choice tests at a third tier university? Did Scotty Bowman? Did they know power point?

Also, I think you're overestimating what people might learn in a Concordia business degree ...
Take it easy cha-cha

Your axe grinding about Concordia speaks more about you than the school.

Joe Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 12:28 PM
  #35
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,994
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Also by your logic the Bruins would have never hired a guy like Chiarelli who has done an excellent job as Bruins GM. Same for Ray Shero in Pittsburgh.
Those guys were risks that paid off. At the time the Pens were a bottom feeder and they won because they built their entire core through lottery picks (Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, Staal).

Boston was a pathetic joke of a franchise for 40 years and they were going nowhere. They hired Chiarelli because their owner is cheap and he was an unproven guy with a low salary.

We are the Montreal Canadiens, a franchise that SHOULD be in a position to hire THE best candidate available. Money is not a problem for this team, and they have the means to get THE guy. No need to take a risk on a newbie.

__________________
Yours in Christ,

waffledave
waffledave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 12:30 PM
  #36
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,994
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongLiveTheKing View Post
Loyola is not a college, it's a campus, affiliated to Condordia.
Loyola used to be a university.

edit: didn't see this was answered up above.

waffledave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 12:31 PM
  #37
Aspirine
Lateral Move at Best
 
Aspirine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,354
vCash: 500
This thread needs more of his awesome interviews with Marc Denis.

Aspirine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 12:40 PM
  #38
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Those guys were risks that paid off. At the time the Pens were a bottom feeder and they won because they built their entire core through lottery picks (Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, Staal).

Boston was a pathetic joke of a franchise for 40 years and they were going nowhere. They hired Chiarelli because their owner is cheap and he was an unproven guy with a low salary.

We are the Montreal Canadiens, a franchise that SHOULD be in a position to hire THE best candidate available. Money is not a problem for this team, and they have the means to get THE guy. No need to take a risk on a newbie.
I hate the Bruins but I would not say that.

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 01:40 PM
  #39
JohnLennon
Registered User
 
JohnLennon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
We need a clean slate. Enough with turning over the reigns to somebody already in management. This management group has collectively failed as a whole and they need to be replaced with ppl outside the organization.
What...? Carriere has been here for less than two years. These kind of uninformed opinions are what bother me the most, and help illustrate that most people who complain about management all the time actually don't really know what they're talking about.

There is almost no benefit to hiring someone outside the organization as opposed to someone already a part of it, who already knows the needs of the team and the problems it is currently facing. Hiring someone from the outside is just going to delay the process of making any effective moves, because they have to get to know the team before they do anything. Your opinion just makes absolutely no sense to me.

JohnLennon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 01:44 PM
  #40
Em Ancien
Sexy 2nd Rounder
 
Em Ancien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mount Real Life
Posts: 8,912
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
What...? Carriere has been here for less than two years. These kind of uninformed opinions are what bother me the most, and help illustrate that most people who complain about management all the time actually don't really know what they're talking about.

There is almost no benefit to hiring someone outside the organization as opposed to someone already a part of it, who already knows the needs of the team and the problems it is currently facing. Hiring someone from the outside is just going to delay the process of making any effective moves, because they have to get to know the team before they do anything. Your opinion just makes absolutely no sense to me.
Ya, I'm sure the Panthers are going to have to wait a long time to see any progress

Picking Gauthier was also money. Going from perenial playoff contender to cellar team, looks great on any resume.

When an organization has not shown any progress, I don't see the point of keeping the same group.

Em Ancien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 02:17 PM
  #41
BobbyFischer*
 
BobbyFischer*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,864
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongLiveTheKing View Post
I stand corrected.
pwnd

BobbyFischer* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 02:19 PM
  #42
habtastic
Registered User
 
habtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai via MTL
Country: India
Posts: 9,288
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspirine View Post
This thread needs more of his awesome interviews with Marc Denis.


It makes me feel better about my French considering he is the bilingual eyes and very hairy ears of Gauthier.

habtastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 02:23 PM
  #43
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,994
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
I hate the Bruins but I would not say that.
They tanked for Joe Thornton and went nowhere. They tanked again and still, they only won the cup after Chiarelli and after they got rid of all the assets they got from years of tanking and futility.

Their attendance was crap for a long time too. The Bruins were a considered a joke in Boston and nobody gave a crap about them in that city. The current fanbase is largely made up of bandwagoners and Bostonians who didn't care about hockey until the Bruins were relevant again.

waffledave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 02:26 PM
  #44
JohnLennon
Registered User
 
JohnLennon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
Ya, I'm sure the Panthers are going to have to wait a long time to see any progress

Picking Gauthier was also money. Going from perenial playoff contender to cellar team, looks great on any resume.

When an organization has not shown any progress, I don't see the point of keeping the same group.
To be fair, Florida is a completely different case. They've been an awful team for an extremely long time, and they had next to no core identity. Tallon was hired to do whatever it takes to make them competitive, to change the character of the team.

The Habs are a different story. We've got our core, our foundation of youth for the future is mostly already making a difference on the team today. So what the Habs need is someone who knows the team well, their needs and their issues, and can work on them right when he gets hired.

Comparing to Florida is completely off the mark. The Habs have just gone through their worst season in a long time... I think only the second time they've missed the playoffs in seven years.

The Panthers are completely different from the Habs in almost every way.

JohnLennon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 02:39 PM
  #45
Em Ancien
Sexy 2nd Rounder
 
Em Ancien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mount Real Life
Posts: 8,912
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
To be fair, Florida is a completely different case. They've been an awful team for an extremely long time, and they had next to no core identity. Tallon was hired to do whatever it takes to make them competitive, to change the character of the team.

The Habs are a different story. We've got our core, our foundation of youth for the future is mostly already making a difference on the team today. So what the Habs need is someone who knows the team well, their needs and their issues, and can work on them right when he gets hired.

Comparing to Florida is completely off the mark. The Habs have just gone through their worst season in a long time... I think only the second time they've missed the playoffs in seven years.

The Panthers are completely different from the Habs in almost every way.
So our youth is making a difference, our average age on the team is 27, yet we're 15th in the East and don't need an overhaul. Oh boy

Every team has a 'youth core', we just don't have elite talent. As compelling an argument can be made about Pacioretty, Price, Subban, Desharnais being good pieces moving forwards, the fact is we lack both top end talent and depth.

I don't see the point of handing the keys to a guy that's been a part of the great demolition job that started last summer. Our defensive depth was blown up and our scoring depth was hammered down.

We don't need to blow the team up, we need to blow the front office up. The team's already been put into lottery contention.

Em Ancien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 02:44 PM
  #46
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,755
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
I agree.

As well, as many teams as LC has been a part of, which one was a winner? Which one a dynasty? How much did he have to do with it?

It would be easy, but it all depends on what your goal is.

Easy?
Win?

Choose wisely
name one, still active, that was part of a dinasty (a real one, like the 80's Oilers and Isles or 70's Habs...).

if that's now what you mean by Dynasty... then we already have a guy in the Org that fits your criterias... his first name is Bob...

ECWHSWI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 03:26 PM
  #47
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,994
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
name one, still active, that was part of a dinasty (a real one, like the 80's Oilers and Isles or 70's Habs...).

if that's now what you mean by Dynasty... then we already have a guy in the Org that fits your criterias... his first name is Bob...
I would say Detroit is a dynasty. Certainly the closest thing to one in the last 20 years or so.

waffledave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 03:34 PM
  #48
JohnLennon
Registered User
 
JohnLennon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
So our youth is making a difference, our average age on the team is 27, yet we're 15th in the East and don't need an overhaul. Oh boy

Every team has a 'youth core', we just don't have elite talent. As compelling an argument can be made about Pacioretty, Price, Subban, Desharnais being good pieces moving forwards, the fact is we lack both top end talent and depth.

I don't see the point of handing the keys to a guy that's been a part of the great demolition job that started last summer. Our defensive depth was blown up and our scoring depth was hammered down.

We don't need to blow the team up, we need to blow the front office up. The team's already been put into lottery contention.
What kind of logic is it that because we are in 15th, we need to blow up the entire team and all of management? I struggle to comprehend how some people don't realize how stupid of an idea it is to just go and fire every single person involved with the team over the last year or two. Really?

No, you don't do that. Because that would be ridiculous. Just look at Ottawa from last year and look at them this year, and your entire argument has lost all its meaning. You retain the assets you have, don't just blow everything up... like you seem to want. Think logically about it: just because you have one bad year at a particular job, you're not going to fire the entire head office.

I have come to the conclusion that the majority of people crying for every single person holding a management position to be fired is a child, because that logic has absolutely no reasoning whatsoever.

Notice how I never protested firing Gauthier, but the fact people like you are crying for Carriere to be fired simply because he has been a part of the organization over the past year or so is just ridiculous, and frankly immature.

JohnLennon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 03:47 PM
  #49
Em Ancien
Sexy 2nd Rounder
 
Em Ancien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mount Real Life
Posts: 8,912
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
What kind of logic is it that because we are in 15th, we need to blow up the entire team and all of management? I struggle to comprehend how some people don't realize how stupid of an idea it is to just go and fire every single person involved with the team over the last year or two. Really?

No, you don't do that. Because that would be ridiculous. Just look at Ottawa from last year and look at them this year, and your entire argument has lost all its meaning. You retain the assets you have, don't just blow everything up... like you seem to want. Think logically about it: just because you have one bad year at a particular job, you're not going to fire the entire head office.

I have come to the conclusion that the majority of people crying for every single person holding a management position to be fired is a child, because that logic has absolutely no reasoning whatsoever.

Notice how I never protested firing Gauthier, but the fact people like you are crying for Carriere to be fired simply because he has been a part of the organization over the past year or so is just ridiculous, and frankly immature.
Ottawa? You realize their goaltending was absolute **** all year, then they acquired Anderson and they started winning consistently? Of course they're doing good this year, they don't have a sieve in nets. They have a franchise player that took the next step to becoming a superstar. They now have a coach that isn't pissing off their best players.

I never said to blow it up and tank. I said to change the front office because they're clearly incompetent. Keep the amateur scouting because it's only thing that's kept this team from collapsing quicker and kept giving good young players to trade away by short-sighted managers.

Em Ancien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 04:05 PM
  #50
Fish on The Sand
Untouchable
 
Fish on The Sand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Posts: 50,976
vCash: 500
Carrière is neither a gem nor hidden

Fish on The Sand is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:54 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.