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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread VIII

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Old
03-18-2012, 03:28 PM
  #101
KingLB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Your argument isn't much better if you expect us to drop $4 million on a fourth line center. This should be the last place we should be looking to drop all our cap space and assets. The top 6 and the third line will require a lot more attention this offseason than the fourth line does... Nitpicking over the fourth line is laughable at this point.
Telos hit the nail on the head, Fraser probably doesn't cost us 1 million to keep. Where all the Stoll clones would cost 3.5-4....really you can't see a difference...oh and atleast Fraser has a spine unlike Gaustad...

The fact that Fraser doesn't have one of those "skills" is what makes him cheap, you want a great faceoff man be prepared to pay 2+ mil, for the likes of Belanger/Malhotra etc etc. Also with all the PK'ers the Kings have we don't need Fraser to do that. The Kings need him to be exactly what he is, energy/speed/occasional fight/a guy who sticks up for his teammate.

And LOL at bad years, 7 pts for a 4th liner isn't bad...if your whole 4th line can average 10-12 pts a year and remain about even thats pretty good business.

Also lets not forget, the Kings basically gave Fraser his career back, he wasn't wanted in Edm. And most thought he was bound for Manchester, this year might have bought him atleast another year or 2 in the NHL.

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Old
03-18-2012, 03:36 PM
  #102
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Not one of those guys makes $4M so I'm not sure where you're coming up with that. Gaustad makes the most at $2.3M but the other 3 both make under $2M. Even if we don't sign one of those, I'd rather see Cliche get a shot than Fraser.

And I know everyone wants to talk about improving the top 6 but how are we going to do that? Who are you suggesting we get? With Dean Lombardi as GM, there's no way we're ever getting Parise and outside of him, who do you want to see? Semin, Huselius, and Doan are the only 3 I think we should really be going after in free agency. Doan will re-sign in PHX, Semin is such a HUGE question mark with his work ethic, and Huselius is oft injured. I think most fans have to accept the fact that our top 6 is most likely going to stay the same with the hopes that Gagne can push King down a line. Hell Dean re-signing Parse wouldn't shock me in hopes he can finally be a top 6 guy Dean somehow thinks he can be.

Then go to the 3rd line. Gagne is again a giant question mark. If he's healthy, him or King are the 3rd line LWer. Lokti is most likely the 3rd line center and unless Dean ships him out this summer, you have to assume that is his job full time next year. 3rd line RW could really use an upgrade over Lewis so there's one hole to fill.

Plus then since Lewis will still be under contract, he's got a 4th line spot at least. That's Clifford, Lewis, Westgarth and Richardson all under contract for next years 4th line. Westy will obviously only be in for like 30 games again next year meaning the regular 4th line will have to consist of Lewis and Richardson unless we bring someone in. That is far too soft of a 4th line with not enough offense to make up for it. So you don't think we need a 4th line center upgrade?
The Sabres traded him because apparently Gaustads camp expects $3mio+ on his next contract.

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03-18-2012, 03:38 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
Telos hit the nail on the head, Fraser probably doesn't cost us 1 million to keep. Where all the Stoll clones would cost 3.5-4....really you can't see a difference...oh and atleast Fraser has a spine unlike Gaustad...

The fact that Fraser doesn't have one of those "skills" is what makes him cheap, you want a great faceoff man be prepared to pay 2+ mil, for the likes of Belanger/Malhotra etc etc. Also with all the PK'ers the Kings have we don't need Fraser to do that. The Kings need him to be exactly what he is, energy/speed/occasional fight/a guy who sticks up for his teammate.

And LOL at bad years, 7 pts for a 4th liner isn't bad...if your whole 4th line can average 10-12 pts a year and remain about even thats pretty good business.

Also lets not forget, the Kings basically gave Fraser his career back, he wasn't wanted in Edm. And most thought he was bound for Manchester, this year might have bought him atleast another year or 2 in the NHL.
I honestly don't get how either of you ever get this idea that I said we should spend $3-4M on a 4th line center. But okay.

My problem with Fraser isn't that he's not a great faceoff guy. It's just that he's what everyone said - a dime a dozen player. You guys are making it like I'm talking about Brown and want the guy banished forever. all I'm saying is we really should upgrade the position since there are much better options available this offseason. My ideal guy is Greg Campbell.


Without any major signings and with the idea that Lokti is the 3rd line center, this is the type of lineup we could see next year. Plenty of cap room to re-sign Quick





CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Dustin Brown ($3.175m) / Anze Kopitar ($6.800m) / Justin Williams ($3.650m)
Simon Gagne ($3.500m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.273m)
Dwight King ($0.850m) / Andrei Loktionov ($0.817m) / David Jones ($2.500m)
Kyle Clifford ($0.870m) / Greg Campbell ($1.400m) / Jordan Nolan ($0.532m)
Kevin Westgarth ($0.725m) / Trevor Lewis ($0.725m)
DEFENSEMEN
Drew Doughty ($7.000m) / Rob Scuderi ($3.400m)
Vyacheslav Voinov ($0.817m) / Willie Mitchell ($3.500m)
Matt Greene ($2.950m) / Alec Martinez ($0.738m)
Davis Drewiske ($0.617m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Quick ($1.800m)
Jonathan Bernier ($1.250m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $68,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $58,636,893; BONUSES: $342,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $9,663,107




Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor Boarding View Post
The Sabres traded him because apparently Gaustads camp expects $3mio+ on his next contract.
I was unaware. Just posted that he was one of the guys I see as much better upgrade but as you can tell by this post, he's not the guy I want to target. He's just one of my examples.

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Old
03-18-2012, 03:38 PM
  #104
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I just can't see LA spending much for their 4th line C. Either Fraser comes back, or Cliche is given a chance or it's back to Lewis. It'd be bad asset management to spend more than they're paying Fraser and Lewis. Gaustad is and will make too much for LA's 4th line, even though he'd be an upgrade. You'd replace Stoll with Gaustad IMO before you pencil him in on your 4th.
Tonelli suggested Nolan, not sure how capable he is at C, but that could be an option. Is Cliche signed for next season?

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03-18-2012, 03:40 PM
  #105
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Again no one is denying dime a dozen....but if he is dime a dozen why would you replace him with another "dime a dozen" player that could cost 100% more??? Cap wise it makes no sense.

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03-18-2012, 03:43 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
Not one of those guys makes $4M so I'm not sure where you're coming up with that. Gaustad makes the most at $2.3M but the other 3 both make under $2M. Even if we don't sign one of those, I'd rather see Cliche get a shot than Fraser.

And I know everyone wants to talk about improving the top 6 but how are we going to do that? Who are you suggesting we get? With Dean Lombardi as GM, there's no way we're ever getting Parise and outside of him, who do you want to see? Semin, Huselius, and Doan are the only 3 I think we should really be going after in free agency. Doan will re-sign in PHX, Semin is such a HUGE question mark with his work ethic, and Huselius is oft injured. I think most fans have to accept the fact that our top 6 is most likely going to stay the same with the hopes that Gagne can push King down a line. Hell Dean re-signing Parse wouldn't shock me in hopes he can finally be a top 6 guy Dean somehow thinks he can be.

Then go to the 3rd line. Gagne is again a giant question mark. If he's healthy, him or King are the 3rd line LWer. Lokti is most likely the 3rd line center and unless Dean ships him out this summer, you have to assume that is his job full time next year. 3rd line RW could really use an upgrade over Lewis so there's one hole to fill.

Plus then since Lewis will still be under contract, he's got a 4th line spot at least. That's Clifford, Lewis, Westgarth and Richardson all under contract for next years 4th line. Westy will obviously only be in for like 30 games again next year meaning the regular 4th line will have to consist of Lewis and Richardson unless we bring someone in. That is far too soft of a 4th line with not enough offense to make up for it. So you don't think we need a 4th line center upgrade?
Gaustad's asking price will start at $4 million in free agency (he won't get it, but he will be paid handsomely that's for sure). Overall it is ridiculous. We could re-sign Fraser for under a million, yet you want to drop $2-3m on a fourth line center? That's asinine. Of course we are always looking to upgrade any position, but that doesn't mean we are going to drop serious bucks on the fourth line all of a sudden believing that to be the final pieces to cup glory. We have a bottom 6 filled to the brim with fourth liners, I guarantee you if we let Fraser go then Lewis or Richardson will be centering next year's fourth line. I absolutely guarantee it. Fraser is the best option this organization has, performs the duties admirably, has experience and has won a cup before, and is the most reasonable economic solution available to us. Going out and trying to drop $2 million+ on a Halpern clone to center the fourth line should be the last thing on our minds and would be item # 246 on Lombardi's list. There is no upgrade out there available and worth the price.

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03-18-2012, 03:46 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Gaustad's asking price will start at $4 million in free agency (he won't get it, but he will be paid handsomely that's for sure). Overall it is ridiculous. We could re-sign Fraser for under a million, yet you want to drop $2-3m on a fourth line center? That's asinine. Of course we are always looking to upgrade any position, but that doesn't mean we are going to drop serious bucks on the fourth line all of a sudden believing that to be the final pieces to cup glory. We have a bottom 6 filled to the brim with fourth liners, I guarantee you if we let Fraser go then Lewis or Richardson will be centering next year's fourth line. I absolutely guarantee it. Fraser is the best option this organization has, performs the duties admirably, has experience and has won a cup before, and is the most reasonable economic solution available to us. Going out and trying to drop $2 million+ on a Halpern clone to center the fourth line should be the last thing on our minds and would be item # 246 on Lombardi's list.
I think you were typing this while my last post was being posted so I'll give you a break but again, I have never said spend $2M+ on a 4th line center. I used Gaustad as an example simply because I remembered he was a UFA 4th liner. No shot in hell do I give him close to his demands. But signing a guy with Greg Campbell would not cost an exorbitant amount and would vastly upgrade that position. We could also then move Richardson and his $1.1M to sit in the press box for anything and have Clifford-Campbell-Nolan with Lewis and Westy as extras.

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03-18-2012, 03:58 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
I think you were typing this while my last post was being posted so I'll give you a break but again, I have never said spend $2M+ on a 4th line center. I used Gaustad as an example simply because I remembered he was a UFA 4th liner. No shot in hell do I give him close to his demands. But signing a guy with Greg Campbell would not cost an exorbitant amount and would vastly upgrade that position. We could also then move Richardson and his $1.1M to sit in the press box for anything and have Clifford-Campbell-Nolan with Lewis and Westy as extras.
Your dime a dozen player looks more like a needle in a haystack to me. It is not like we just go out to the tree of fourth line centers and pluck one. I think you are too hard on Fraser, he is more than adequate. Sure, we will look at upgrades, but it is not like we would be the only suitor for Campbell, not to mention the likeliness of Boston re-signing him. That and it would cost upwards of $1.8-2.0m to get him here. A fourth line center's primary job is to keep the puck out of the net. I'd say Fraser is doing just fine to the extent where we don't need to go out looking to drop an extra million on a fourth liner when we are filled to the brim with fourth liners and poised to acquire another top 6 forward... I'll say it again, if Fraser walks, Lewis or Richardson is the fourth line center next season, not Campbell, Gaustad, or any other pipe dream.

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03-18-2012, 04:04 PM
  #109
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Fraser is doing just fine as our 4th line center. He forechecks hard and goes right to the net and he's not a liability defensively. That's really all you can ask of your 4th liners.

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03-18-2012, 04:24 PM
  #110
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Telos has a way of eloquently stating my own opinion every single time. We must look at this game/the Kings the exact same way.

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03-18-2012, 04:34 PM
  #111
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I'm not against having Fraser back. He's brought stability to the 4c position. He's cheap, he'll fight and he's not a defensive liability. And he's developed some chemistry with Nolan and Clifford.

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03-18-2012, 04:36 PM
  #112
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Enjoying my free time and some sweet fantasy:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zack Parise ($7.400m) / Anze Kopitar ($6.800m) / Justin Williams ($3.650m)
Jeff Carter ($5.273m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Dwight King ($0.900m)
Simon Gagne ($3.500m) / Trevor Lewis ($0.725m) / Dustin Brown ($3.175m)
Jordan Nolan ($0.532m) / *Bud Holloway ($0.900m) / Kyle Clifford ($0.870m)
Kevin Westgarth ($0.725m) / Brad Richardson ($1.175m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Drew Doughty ($7.000m) / Rob Scuderi ($3.400m)
Willie Mitchell ($3.500m) / Vyacheslav Voinov ($0.817m)
Matt Greene ($2.950m) / Alec Martinez ($0.738m)
Davis Drewiske ($0.617m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Quick ($1.800m)
Jonathan Bernier ($1.250m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,445,227; BONUSES: $130,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $854,773

*Did Bud even play center in MCH?

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Old
03-18-2012, 04:38 PM
  #113
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Since everyone elses doing it, I'll offer my realistic lineup for next year :

Brown Kopitar Williams
Carter Loktionov King
Gagne Richards Nolan
Clifford Fraser Lewis

ex: Westgarth, Moller

forwards leaving: penner, stoll, richardson

this is all assuming we DON'T get Parise

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Old
03-18-2012, 05:27 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Buskas View Post
Since everyone elses doing it, I'll offer my realistic lineup for next year :

Brown Kopitar Williams
Carter Loktionov King
Gagne Richards Nolan
Clifford Fraser Lewis

ex: Westgarth, Moller

forwards leaving: penner, stoll, richardson

this is all assuming we DON'T get Parise
If this is the lineup to start the year I will be pissed. We lose penner and stolls contracts and get nothing to show for it except a roster spot for lotki who to me just plays to small.

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03-18-2012, 05:42 PM
  #115
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If this is the lineup to start the year I will be pissed. We lose penner and stolls contracts and get nothing to show for it except a roster spot for lotki who to me just plays to small.
Don't be pissed, both Fraser and Westgarth are still there, extended by 5 seasons each.

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Old
03-18-2012, 05:42 PM
  #116
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Without a salary cap increase, the Kings will have over $10M in cap space available this summer. With the salary cap increase, the Kings will have over $15M in cap space available.

And those figures still include Simon Gagne's $3.5M cap hit. I expect the Kings to re-sign Quick to a multi-year deal and upgrade their team over the summer. If Lombardi is still around, he's not going to sit idly by and watch competing teams within his conference improve while he does nothing. It's nonsensical to think that they won't be making any new additions to the roster, that is unless he wishes to sign off on his own death sentence.


Last edited by Ziggy Stardust: 03-18-2012 at 05:48 PM.
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03-18-2012, 05:52 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Winger23 View Post
If this is the lineup to start the year I will be pissed. We lose penner and stolls contracts and get nothing to show for it except a roster spot for lotki who to me just plays to small.
Losing Penner and Stoll is addition by subtraction. Loktionov would be playing C between two guys that are both 6'3.

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03-18-2012, 06:08 PM
  #118
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I just can't see LA spending much for their 4th line C. Either Fraser comes back, or Cliche is given a chance or it's back to Lewis. It'd be bad asset management to spend more than they're paying Fraser and Lewis. Gaustad is and will make too much for LA's 4th line, even though he'd be an upgrade. You'd replace Stoll with Gaustad IMO before you pencil him in on your 4th.
Tonelli suggested Nolan, not sure how capable he is at C, but that could be an option. Is Cliche signed for next season?
Just want to say that Nolan has been a Center throughout most of his hockey career prior to his time with us. He could be ideal as a 4rth line center but I would keep Fraser for one year (depending on who the rest of our centers are) and let Nolan play on his wing.

I like Rikity Clichette's game and think that if we are ever going to give him a cup of tea with the big club that he should start getting it next year.

One more year of Fraser will do guys like Nolan etc a world of good. Easing them into the stew.

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03-18-2012, 06:23 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
If Lombardi is still around, he's not going to sit idly by and watch competing teams within his conference improve while he does nothing. It's nonsensical to think that they won't be making any new additions to the roster, that is unless he wishes to sign off on his own death sentence.
I agree. He's been VERY aggressive over the past year. I expect we'll see more of the same this summer. He wants the cup and AEG is behind him.

I'm sure a mammoth offer will be thrown at Parise, with a full on multimedia presentation featuring Gretzky, Bryant and Co as well.

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03-18-2012, 06:29 PM
  #120
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I agree. He's been VERY aggressive over the past year. I expect we'll see more of the same this summer. He wants the cup and AEG is behind him.

I'm sure a mammoth offer will be thrown at Parise, with a full on multimedia presentation featuring Gretzky, Bryant and Co as well.
I picture it to be TL reaching into a bag overstuffed with $1000 dollar bills and throwing wadded up handfulls over and over at Parise while DL
does shadow puppets on the wall of a seagul as Gretzky, Bernie Nichols and Randy Newman do a barbershop quartet version of "I LOVE L.A."!!!!

ZP just rolls his eyes.

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03-18-2012, 06:42 PM
  #121
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I agree. He's been VERY aggressive over the past year. I expect we'll see more of the same this summer. He wants the cup and AEG is behind him.

I'm sure a mammoth offer will be thrown at Parise, with a full on multimedia presentation featuring Gretzky, Bryant and Co as well.
Griffin, Hanks, Milano etc. also to be featured

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03-18-2012, 06:44 PM
  #122
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Griffin, Hanks, Milano etc. also to be featured
Gretzky, Kobe and Beckham should get it done.

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03-18-2012, 06:52 PM
  #123
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Gretzky, Kobe and Beckham should get it done.
gotta add a few females. It could help the signing process.

Seriously thought, Parise might not want to sign with an far western conference team ala Richards/Kovalchuk. You never really know with these players.

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03-18-2012, 07:07 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Minor Boarding View Post
gotta add a few females. It could help the signing process.

Seriously thought, Parise might not want to sign with an far western conference team ala Richards/Kovalchuk. You never really know with these players.
Completely different scenario IMO. Kovie got offered dog **** money and even DL confessed to that after Kovie signed and Richards would have had to play LW and in NY he could play with Gaborik, be a center, and play for his old coach, who is one of the best coaches in the NHL. Parise on the other hand, would get to play with Kopi or Richards in his natural position and hopefully gets an actual offer from the new GM

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03-18-2012, 07:13 PM
  #125
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Completely different scenario IMO. Kovie got offered dog **** money and even DL confessed to that after Kovie signed and Richards would have had to play LW and in NY he could play with Gaborik, be a center, and play for his old coach, who is one of the best coaches in the NHL. Parise on the other hand, would get to play with Kopi or Richards in his natural position and hopefully gets an actual offer from the new GM
yes, fine said. However it's still up to Parise to where he wants to go. For all we know, he could sign for Minessota since he comes from Minneapolis.

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