HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Are goalies overglorified in Montreal?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-14-2012, 12:42 PM
  #51
the
Registered User
 
the's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I tend to value consistency above all when it comes to a Goalie. Like MathMan said, goalies have a certain minimum level of play that's acceptable in the NHL and most of them HAVE to be able to make game-saving saves (like I mean, being physically capable) once in a while.

Price is just consistent, phenomenally consistent. Halak just isn't, and that's why I'd take Price over him 10 times out of 10.
Here we are talking about over overrating our goalies...10 times out of 10 huh? Thanks for the laugh!

the is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 02:00 AM
  #52
MasterDecoy
Carlos Danger
 
MasterDecoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Beijing
Posts: 9,910
vCash: 1707
Quote:
Originally Posted by the View Post
Here we are talking about over overrating our goalies...10 times out of 10 huh? Thanks for the laugh!
halak can't start 75 games like price can. and no, he's not as consistent as him. i'd like repeat the fact that halak has been outplayed by brian ****ing elliot and is behind a norris-caliber defense and coached by a guy that made mason rookie of the year, but i have a feeling that it'd be too much variables for you to interpret

MasterDecoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 07:27 AM
  #53
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Agnostic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,117
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I tend to value consistency above all when it comes to a Goalie. Like MathMan said, goalies have a certain minimum level of play that's acceptable in the NHL and most of them HAVE to be able to make game-saving saves (like I mean, being physically capable) once in a while.

Price is just consistent, phenomenally consistent. Halak just isn't, and that's why I'd take Price over him 10 times out of 10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
halak can't start 75 games like price can. and no, he's not as consistent as him. i'd like repeat the fact that halak has been outplayed by brian ****ing elliot and is behind a norris-caliber defense and coached by a guy that made mason rookie of the year, but i have a feeling that it'd be too much variables for you to interpret
These are the 2 dumbest posts on this thread.

Brian Elliott is #1 in the league so every goaltender in the NHL has been outplayed by him mostly. As for consistency, you simply embarass yourself when you call a 24-10-6 1.87 gaa .928 save pct record "inconsistent". Especially when you put him up againat a guy who has been mostly a train wreck in the 3rd period and ot and has proven he is as soft as butter mentally.

Stay ignorant boys and keep up the good fanboy work. I need some good quotes for the Should Have Kept Halak thread which is eventually coming to Hfboards.

Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 07:43 AM
  #54
Perrah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,815
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
These are the 2 dumbest posts on this thread.

Brian Elliott is #1 in the league so every goaltender in the NHL has been outplayed by him mostly. As for consistency, you simply embarass yourself when you call a 24-10-6 1.87 gaa .928 save pct record "inconsistent". Especially when you put him up againat a guy who has been mostly a train wreck in the 3rd period and ot and has proven he is as soft as butter mentally.

Stay ignorant boys and keep up the good fanboy work. I need some good quotes for the Should Have Kept Halak thread which is eventually coming to Hfboards.
I am sure you will encourage someone to start it so you can get your jabs in this year before disappearing again when halak has worse stats. I love the soft as butter mentally comment, real good after calling people idumb. Perhaps you and young gun can engage in some riveting conversations of mental fragility, dont forget 2010-2011 when you are talking about it.

Perrah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 07:53 AM
  #55
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Agnostic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,117
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
I am sure you will encourage someone to start it so you can get your jabs in this year before disappearing again when halak has worse stats. I love the soft as butter mentally comment, real good after calling people idumb. Perhaps you and young gun can engage in some riveting conversations of mental fragility, dont forget 2010-2011 when you are talking about it.
I "disappear" until guys like Whiskey7 and Masterdecoy make outrageous comments.

I don't bring Halak up, but you will note the same people always do. Usually to flaunt their hyper partisan Price fanaticism and make fools of themselves. It's like Tourette Syndrome.


Last edited by Agnostic: 03-15-2012 at 08:00 AM.
Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 10:44 AM
  #56
Ollie Williams
Registered User
 
Ollie Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,946
vCash: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
These are the 2 dumbest posts on this thread.

Brian Elliott is #1 in the league so every goaltender in the NHL has been outplayed by him mostly. As for consistency, you simply embarass yourself when you call a 24-10-6 1.87 gaa .928 save pct record "inconsistent". Especially when you put him up againat a guy who has been mostly a train wreck in the 3rd period and ot and has proven he is as soft as butter mentally.

Stay ignorant boys and keep up the good fanboy work. I need some good quotes for the Should Have Kept Halak thread which is eventually coming to Hfboards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
I "disappear" until guys like Whiskey7 and Masterdecoy make outrageous comments.

I don't bring Halak up, but you will note the same people always do. Usually to flaunt their hyper partisan Price fanaticism and make fools of themselves. It's like Tourette Syndrome.
Did you really have to 1-up them on the stupidity level with your response?

My view of this topic is that Price is very consistent with his performances. Because of this, we judge what changes from game to game and that's the consistency of the forwards and defense. That being said, there have been a couple of games where Price had a poor performance and the majority of us fans called him out on it. Other than that, we've had some of the most consistently good goaltending in a long time, so I don't think they are over-glorified.

Ollie Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 03:42 PM
  #57
the
Registered User
 
the's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
These are the 2 dumbest posts on this thread.

Brian Elliott is #1 in the league so every goaltender in the NHL has been outplayed by him mostly. As for consistency, you simply embarass yourself when you call a 24-10-6 1.87 gaa .928 save pct record "inconsistent". Especially when you put him up againat a guy who has been mostly a train wreck in the 3rd period and ot and has proven he is as soft as butter mentally.

Stay ignorant boys and keep up the good fanboy work. I need some good quotes for the Should Have Kept Halak thread which is eventually coming to Hfboards.
Thanks for saving me some time,just goes to show how some fans overrate jesus price.

the is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 05:04 PM
  #58
E = CH²
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Sri Lanka
Posts: 16,032
vCash: 500
It's quite hilarious to say Price is consistent and that Halak isn't when Halak has had one season where he wasn't as great as the others (last year) and where Price has had ups and downs his whole career (which is normal since he started too young).

E = CH² is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 05:57 PM
  #59
Souvenirs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Trois-Rivieres
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
These are the 2 dumbest posts on this thread.

Brian Elliott is #1 in the league so every goaltender in the NHL has been outplayed by him mostly. As for consistency, you simply embarass yourself when you call a 24-10-6 1.87 gaa .928 save pct record "inconsistent". Especially when you put him up againat a guy who has been mostly a train wreck in the 3rd period and ot and has proven he is as soft as butter mentally.

Stay ignorant boys and keep up the good fanboy work. I need some good quotes for the Should Have Kept Halak thread which is eventually coming to Hfboards.
what were you saying about ''hyper-partisan fanboyism?'' I don't think you've ever done anything on HFboards that didn't involve a massive Carey Price hategasm. he's not even good enough for the ECHL!11!

Souvenirs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2012, 11:58 PM
  #60
MasterDecoy
Carlos Danger
 
MasterDecoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Beijing
Posts: 9,910
vCash: 1707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
These are the 2 dumbest posts on this thread.

Brian Elliott is #1 in the league so every goaltender in the NHL has been outplayed by him mostly. As for consistency, you simply embarass yourself when you call a 24-10-6 1.87 gaa .928 save pct record "inconsistent". Especially when you put him up againat a guy who has been mostly a train wreck in the 3rd period and ot and has proven he is as soft as butter mentally.

Stay ignorant boys and keep up the good fanboy work. I need some good quotes for the Should Have Kept Halak thread which is eventually coming to Hfboards.
elliot was lucky to find an NHL job this year. and he was signed as a BACKUP to your man 'consistent' halak.

at the beginning of the year, halak was consistent, yes, consistently ****, so he lost his #1 job to elliot who then played so above his head, he might as well had been in outer space. gradually halak got better and now is playing really good. and then there's the hitchcock factor...

if spouting a number is your definition of looking at consistency then i don't know what to tell you and it's the first time i defend price, so you don't need to go a label me anything. and saying i would chose price over halak is not the same as me taking a **** on halak.

price IS consistent, as in: "his play is consistent", which he is. last year he was consistently great, this year he is consistently good. has he even gotten chased this year yet?

and any halak vs price debate is void and null this year since once plays for the second best (are they first yet) team in the league and one plays for the third-worst team in the league.

read the whole post instead of cherry picking sentences which offends your sensibilities. every reason i listed is why i would chose price over halak. W7 said 10 times out of 10, not me, i would have gone to... 9. and you just proved my last sentence by the way

MasterDecoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 07:41 PM
  #61
dynastyREredux
Where's the Doritos?
 
dynastyREredux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: All over Canada
Posts: 1,254
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dynastyREredux
Some people think Scary Price is a top 15 goalie in the world. That answers that.

dynastyREredux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 07:44 PM
  #62
Ollie Williams
Registered User
 
Ollie Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,946
vCash: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by price131 View Post
Some people think Scary Price is a top 15 goalie in the world. That answers that.
Never heard of him. Price's distant cousin?

Ollie Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 07:47 PM
  #63
dynastyREredux
Where's the Doritos?
 
dynastyREredux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: All over Canada
Posts: 1,254
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dynastyREredux
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie Williams View Post
Never heard of him. Price's distant cousin?
It's the guy Carey Price morphs into at the start of the 3rd period.

dynastyREredux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 07:56 PM
  #64
Bob Cole
Registered User
 
Bob Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by price131 View Post
Some people think Scary Price is a top 15 goalie in the world. That answers that.

I'd like to see your top 15 list then.

Bob Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 07:59 PM
  #65
dynastyREredux
Where's the Doritos?
 
dynastyREredux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: All over Canada
Posts: 1,254
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dynastyREredux
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Carmoni View Post

I'd like to see your top 15 list then.
In no particular order,

Luongo, Lundqvist, Halak, Rask, Quick, Rinne, Lehtonen, Smith, Hiller, Ward, Fleury, Thomas, Vokoun, Schneider, Miller.

All of those 15 are easily better.

dynastyREredux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-18-2012, 09:23 PM
  #66
Ollie Williams
Registered User
 
Ollie Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,946
vCash: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by price131 View Post
In no particular order,

Luongo, Lundqvist, Halak, Rask, Quick, Rinne, Lehtonen, Smith, Hiller, Ward, Fleury, Thomas, Vokoun, Schneider, Miller.

All of those 15 are easily better.
I wouldn't even trade a soiled pair of underwear for some of the guys on your list.

Ollie Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2012, 12:11 AM
  #67
MasterDecoy
Carlos Danger
 
MasterDecoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Beijing
Posts: 9,910
vCash: 1707
Quote:
Originally Posted by price131 View Post
In no particular order,

Luongo, Lundqvist, Halak, Rask, Quick, Rinne, Lehtonen, Smith, Hiller, Ward, Fleury, Thomas, Vokoun, Schneider, Miller.

All of those 15 are easily better.
bias spotted.

come on man! you just named 2 backups; a guy that they tried run out of town not 3 weeks ago; a guy who has never made the playoffs in his entire career; a guy who's career was jeopardized by vertigo - and has played garbage since; and a guy who is playing behind tippet's system. you know, the one that made bryzgalov look like 50 million dollars.

ill let you figure out who they are

MasterDecoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2012, 12:19 AM
  #68
Souvenirs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Trois-Rivieres
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by price131 View Post
In no particular order,

Luongo, Lundqvist, Halak, Rask, Quick, Rinne, Lehtonen, Smith, Hiller, Ward, Fleury, Thomas, Vokoun, Schneider, Miller.

All of those 15 are easily better.
.... nothing needs to be said

Souvenirs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2012, 12:58 AM
  #69
Habs
Registered User
 
Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,294
vCash: 500
At least it isn't like Toronto where every goalie has a ****ing nickname :
The Cat, The Monster, Optimus Prime, Cujo, The Eagle...

Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2012, 01:03 AM
  #70
MasterDecoy
Carlos Danger
 
MasterDecoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Beijing
Posts: 9,910
vCash: 1707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
At least it isn't like Toronto where every goalie has a ****ing nickname :
The Cat, The Monster, Optimus Reim, Cujo, The Eagle...
but to be fair, those are pretty badass nicknames

MasterDecoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2012, 10:51 PM
  #71
Chili
Registered User
 
Chili's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: la Belle Province
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 1,953
vCash: 500
It's interesting that in some cities the goaltender gets little credit and much blame. Detroit has been that way over the years.

Lately it's pretty much the coaches fault when the team loses in Montreal.

Wasn't always that way.

Jacques Plante won 5 Vezinas and Cups in a row but check out this article from the year after. After an injury and a slow start he ended up in the minors and was even booed there.

Ken Dryden won 6 cups in his 8 seasons but he was jeered numerous times. A sample can be heard if you watch the New Years Eve 75 game against Red Army.

There is no question that goaltending is critical to victory but there probably is too much emphasis on their role at times. They don't score and without good dmen and forwards in front of them, it doesn't matter how good they are. A classic example of that was Gump Worsley when he went from the Rangers to the Habs.

I guess folks just need to have their heroes and villains because it really is a team game.

Chili is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2012, 11:42 PM
  #72
groovejuice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
but to be fair, those are pretty badass nicknames
It's like calling a guy with a speech impediment 'Olivier'

groovejuice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2012, 11:55 PM
  #73
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,908
vCash: 500
Still can't get over folks not appreciating Price. He's got the 7th best save percentage of all-time with players over 250 games. And he's done it playing on some bad teams. He's been very consistent.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/lead...ct_career.html

And before people jump in with the "different era" arguments and "he's not better than Patrick Roy" we all get that it's a different game. But maintaining a .916 even today for your career isn't easy. Esp when you're logging the crazy number of games that Price is.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2012, 03:03 AM
  #74
Roke
Registered User
 
Roke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Still can't get over folks not appreciating Price. He's got the 7th best save percentage of all-time with players over 250 games. And he's done it playing on some bad teams. He's been very consistent.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/lead...ct_career.html

And before people jump in with the "different era" arguments and "he's not better than Patrick Roy" we all get that it's a different game. But maintaining a .916 even today for your career isn't easy. Esp when you're logging the crazy number of games that Price is.
I know you dismissed the "era adjustment bit" but it's really something really necessary if you're going to be comparing players historically. .916 would have been fantastic in say, the 80s (and I assume before but I haven't looked) but Price's .916 this year has him 20th in the league. If you're going to be looking at save percentage all-time you need to start by somehow adjusting for era, get an idea of how much better a player is than his peers. Even comparisons from this season to the first post-lockout season (05-06) are going to be screwed up because of the massive decline in powerplays and powerplay goals with the referees swallowing their whistles more every year. Last I checked referees were giving out powerplays at 60% of the rate they did in 2005-06.

In February I decided to play around with Excel and look at league-wide save percentage broken up into components (even-strength, on the powerplay, on the penalty kill). What I really wanted to see was the league-wide even-strength save percentage as that has less random variation. Since I was using the NHL.com website's stats it only went back to 97-98. Here's what I put together (11-12 stats were as of Feb. 20th):









I'd say there's probably been an increase in save percentage "talent" since 97-98 looking at the ES figures but 03-04 seems especially weird. Even pre-lockout there was 1 season at or above .919 ES sV% while we're looking at a 4th consecutive year at .919 or above. That's interesting to me.

Addendum:

Using Hockey-Reference's search tools, since Price came into the league in 07-08 16 goaltenders have played at least 100 games (82 GP also works as the arbitrary limiter) and put up at least a .916 save percentage over that span, 11 of those greater than .916. Price is in pretty good company there, but he doesn't look elite to me, at least not yet. My understanding from what people more knowledgeable than me about goaltending is that his tools (i.e. technique) is still probably the best in the league so he may move into the upper-echelon of goaltenders in the league in the future but he isn't there yet.


Last edited by Roke: 03-20-2012 at 03:21 AM.
Roke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2012, 04:10 AM
  #75
Habsfanatical
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 787
vCash: 500
Goalie:A ... Goalie B:

38 wins ... 36 wins (91-92)
2.35 GAA ... 2.36 GAA (91-92)
.923 save % ... .918 save % (93-94)
8 SO ... 7 SO (93-94)
4206 mins played ...3935 minutes played (91-92)
72 games played ... 68 games played (93-94)

Age 23 (10-11) ... Age 26 (91-92).. Age 28 (93-94)


I'm not saying Goalie A will be as good or better then Goalie B but Goalie A still has 3 years of growing before he gets to Goalie B's age of "dominance"..

FYI.. Goalie A is Price and Goalie B is Roy and his best stats as a Hab

Habsfanatical is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.