Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Calhoun
When it comes to having a rich diverse culture in the arts, cuisine, etc., both China and Mexico are top in the world (but I give the edge to Mexico). But then it's a better place to live, nicer cities, more beautiful nature, and better people.
Plus the fact that it's a nation with Western customs alone makes it superior.
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depends what you like. I like being able to take high speed trains, see the tallest buildings in the world, play hockey in Harbin, visit the great wall. Mexico is great, but to say Mexico has better people? How many times have you even been to China?
I have been to Mexico and it's a wonderful country, and similar to China in that there are two very different Mexicos.
However, in the case of China, the China that westerners don't usually visit, isn't full of gun violence over narcotics. Better country to live is entirely subjective, you're not convincing anyone of anything special to get a bunch of North American's to agree with you they would rather live in Mexico than China.
If you've ever heard of hainan island in China, or Macau, or Hong Kong, I don't know how much better resort destinations you could get. Do you not consider these places part of China?
Mexico having a higher GDP per capita than China, does not tell the whole story.
There are parts of China which are more westernized than parts of Mexico, and vice versa.
I can see how a westerner could favour living in China, especially a North America, because it's such a convenient country in proximity to Canada and the USA. But I can also see why many westerners favour China and other countries east of India, as it's a much bigger change and much more diverse in culture.
To say Mexico is anywhere as near as cultured as The People's Republic of China, is insane. Ethnic minorities in China make up for roughly 100 million people, almost the entire population of Mexico. and have their own distinct communities all throughout the PRC state.
Shanghai is a very modern city, and a much more desirably place to live than Mexico city. I'd live in a Chinese Metropolis over Mexico city any day.
I'm pretty sure you like "parts" of Mexico Tim, but wouldn't even bother to visit the parts that are incompatible with your socio-economic preferences. Mexico is a much more dangerous country to live in than China.
If I could only chose from 2 countries to be born as a random person, rich or poor, minority ethnicity, or majority ethnicity, gay or straight, I would pick China every day of the week over Mexico.
saying you'd rather live in Mexico than China, as a rich westerner really means ****. I'm not trying to put down Mexico at all, but you guys are going out of your way to put down China. I don't get the recent Chinaphobia among many westerners. All countries deserve to become developed.
I would say China is providing the tools and means for it's population to get out of poverty and gain upward social mobility, much better than Mexico, and especially better than the United States right now.
China's infrastructure investments and improvements in human development (year on year) are much more impressive than Mexico.
Now... to bring this back to the topic at hand, and not just quibble over China vs Mexico, which is entirely irrelevant to the thread. (and a comparison that I never started) .... We can all conclude that both Mexico and China are both more open to industry and manufacturing, and it goes beyond the lower cost of labour, regulations, and industrial ingenuity.
I think it comes down to Anglo North America being one of the laziest regions of the world, because of how politically, culturally, and economically hegemonic the United States has been since the end of World War II.
Anglo-North American culture has gone through just as much change as China, and Mexico.
I think a lot of the reason for America's economic downfall is placed on the backs of a population that has allowed the political and economic elite hijack the direction of society, which promotes American ignorance, laziness, and superiority complex, and lulls society into thinking America is the rightful administrator of global affairs, while the rest of the world makes stuff, and has cool places to visit on vacation.
Yet we still have people saying the autojobs would all come back to Detroit if the Unions went away, and we took the jobs back from Mexico and China.
anyone who doesn't think China has a role in the removal of jobs from Detroit, and the creation of jobs in Mexico.
where do you think most auto-parts in the world are made? China.
The switch to just in time production, and fixation on getting rid of waste is what killed Detroit, and killed Fordism.
Instead of posting pictures about poor Detroit, and lolling at my obsession with China and the Canucks, one of which totally applies in this thread... I'm talking about the global issues that have helped make Detroit irrelevant.
In the days of Fordism virtually all autoparts in American cars were built, then assembled into the final product in the USA.
Then after the oil shock, companies like Toyota, who relied on a network of parts to manufacture cars "just in time" for deliver, while constantly updating and improving their cars, and proved much better able to adapt to a global marketplace with higher oil prices.
and by the 1990's the Japanese car companies were far ahead of the Americans and Europeans, and all other companies began to follow suit. And now all companies produce with the just in time production method... and there has been a tremendous amount of waste reduced, because of this. (cars get updated more frequently now, and companies are much better able to match their supply of cars with consumer demand)
This is all basic stuff to a lot of you guys... but it's a lot more relavent to go over some unfortunate pictures of modern day Detroit.
The real point is that America faces a problem of unemployment, over 20% of people are underemployed, and 10% are unemployed, these people could be creating manufactures goods, and attempting to compete with countries like China and Germany for manufacturing commodities, which don't have to be cars.
I really think the traditional car jobs are gone, because the Big Three prefer to shift the blame to the UAW, and deal with more investment friendly countries like China, Mexico or Brazil.
This shouldn't be something that stops Detroit from creating manufactured goods today, and into the future. Detroit is an important industrial city that doesn't need to be defined by cars, and it's great to see the city is home to many entrepreneurs and innovative people who want to change how the city works.
It's just too bad the political and economic elite in the rest of America, don't want to hep Detroit out, or even give it a chance.
Instead of saying we should let Detroit go bankrupt, The feds and state of michigan should be working together to create an action plan is too well designed to fail. out innovate, and out incentives all other locations in the world for investments.
While I'm usually one of the first to point to the problems of the United State which enforce it's economic stagnation, I side with Bill Clinton in the notion that you should NEVER bet against America.
The people are too freedom loving, creative and innovative to be put down like they are in the past years, and instead of demonizing China, or any other country that has taken American jobs, America should be working out how it can build the best value added products in the world, while opening up even greater to the global supply of and network of resources.
If the US could learn to play the game with the same rules as everyone else, other countries, especially China, would be more than willing to liberalize trade, and probably even float their currency. In a world where the US creates the rules, progress is inhibited by America's fixation of setting the terms of development, trade, consumer trends, rights to state hood, and war and peace, it will never be able to recover, because the rest of the world will not allow it.
If America could act a little more humble, and actually work hard to get the rest of the world to admire it, I have no doubt in my mind America as a country could out innovate and outcompete the rest of the world. It's best at being the greatest country in the world when it is actually working hard, but when the social and economic elite of "America" decide to rig the game for themselves, by dominating world affairs, but neglecting their domestic population, America will continue to be a stagnant country.
We needed change, not even half of the country was willing to work together, and have a conversation together about what needs to change in America to make it the best country in the world again.
This blame isn't because of left wing or right wing America, it is because of the negligence of the political and economic elite. Obama; however, I truly believe is one of the few Americans who does want to have that conversation on equal footing... it's just too bad his party and the other party won't let such a conversation lead to any significant changes.
Detroit is dead because America has been hijacked by the political economic elite... and the fact that half of the country blames government for all of its problems, while the other half wants the government to fix all their problems. yes, obviously there is a good chunk of Americans who would rather be pragmatic, but for the purposes of observation, the political and economic elite have turned large proportions of the population against each other, which has allowed the political deadlock and economic economic stagnation really kick in, and become truly apparent, as the other world desperately tries to catch up.
If America got it's **** together, Detroit could definitely become a very great city again. Obama 2012 ... "Change, if people let it happen, but probably won't..."
I'll go with the guy who actually talks about jobs that could be created in Detroit, than the guy who spent years shipping jobs overseas, and says Detroit should go bankrupt.
Romney would be the worst president for Detroit, because he is part of the economic elite who let their economic well being subordinate the rest of America.
