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Old
03-19-2012, 10:24 AM
  #126
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Don't get too down. With your forwards the Oil will be a force to be reckoned with for years to come. We seem to develop defensmen. Perhaps the two teams can deal a little in the off season.
Please take Gagner off our hands for a D-man

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03-19-2012, 10:29 AM
  #127
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Regarding the whole Torres vs. Eager thing, I'm still trying to figure out why Eager would be the comparable. Because of the borderline hits maybe?

I always saw Eager/Hordichuk as replacements for Smacintyre/JFJ/Storts, which I think is an upgrade. Regardless of how well your goon can fight, he has to be able to skate in this NHL. And yes, Eager has been disappointing this season but he has also strung together some games where he's been very effective/impressive (maybe in that sense he's like Torres too - invisible for long stretches until he finally shows up). In any event, I have no problem with him being back for another season and in fact think that Renney could probably get more out of him if he gave him a larger role.

As for Torres, you know what you get with him. Usually invisible but always capable of scoring, as he did last night. There is a reason other teams haven't committed to him as well. As for a comparable on the Oilers, I'd say Jones and Petrell are closer in role to Raffi than Eager is and I have no problem with either of those guys.

And regarding last night's loss - it ****s the Flames so I like it. Oilers still got a point and could've won. I just hope they win all there other games that are not against the Kings.
The whole Eager/Torres thing is just some posters infatuation with those types of players and how much a difference makers they would be. Honestly if Torres was here and playng alongside say Gagner and Hemsky you can bet he would be taking the blame from posters for their poor contributions these past 12 games or so.

I am surprised they haven't posted that we lost the game because of Hordichuk yet

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03-19-2012, 10:30 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by MrForever View Post
Please take Gagner off our hands for a D-man
Gagner for Gormley

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03-19-2012, 10:34 AM
  #129
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Eager has been ineffective because Tom "turn the other cheek" (the worst part of this is that its a butt cheek) has Eager/Hordichuk/Sutton stapled to the pine (when a beatdown of a transgressor is needed) or in the press box most nights, junkyard dogs are useless when chained up. (we need opposing players hearing "chopper, sic balls" in their heads)

I guess the "coach" is afraid these guys will cost us a game or something...... not like our Vets don't have this part of it well in hand already.

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03-19-2012, 10:45 AM
  #130
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Can you guys PLEASE lose the Harski nickname?
Why? Means rancid in Finnish

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03-19-2012, 11:00 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by dustrock View Post
Is Gagner the Tom Gilbert of the offense?

So Renney is calling out his team not sticking up for Eberle but he doesn't play Hordichuk?

Anyone actually want Smyth resigned at this point?
I do not think Gagner is the new Gilbert. My problem with Gilbert was he was paid like a top dman and we got hit or miss second pairing play. Gagner IMO is getting a rough ride because of a couple things:

1) He is not a super star and at one point was viewed as that. A few years back Sam was the face of the franchise. He was our savior, our core guy who could do no wrong. Fans were wrong to cast him as this but we had never seen a legit young talent so he looked like a stud. Now that we see the Halls, RNHs, Ebs of the world we now look at Gagner and want him to be like them... because he is not he gets alot of flack.

2) We see him have spurts where he is energized, hits fights and is confident, and for the last stretch we have not seen that same fire. I, like probably alot of fans, see him almost going into that "well we always lose what does it matter" type of play. His confedince seems very fragile.

3) He is are most tradable asset. Other teams see a good young small #2 C with some upside. He is the asset we have that can bring back some other parts and we wont miss as much, as others.

I think these three factors are why fans are quick to shrug Gagner off.

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03-19-2012, 11:21 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by 27theROCK View Post
I do not think Gagner is the new Gilbert. My problem with Gilbert was he was paid like a top dman and we got hit or miss second pairing play. Gagner IMO is getting a rough ride because of a couple things:

1) He is not a super star and at one point was viewed as that. A few years back Sam was the face of the franchise. He was our savior, our core guy who could do no wrong. Fans were wrong to cast him as this but we had never seen a legit young talent so he looked like a stud. Now that we see the Halls, RNHs, Ebs of the world we now look at Gagner and want him to be like them... because he is not he gets alot of flack.

2) We see him have spurts where he is energized, hits fights and is confident, and for the last stretch we have not seen that same fire. I, like probably alot of fans, see him almost going into that "well we always lose what does it matter" type of play. His confedince seems very fragile.

3) He is are most tradable asset. Other teams see a good young small #2 C with some upside. He is the asset we have that can bring back some other parts and we wont miss as much, as others.

I think these three factors are why fans are quick to shrug Gagner off.

Actually, I have a problem with him because of his inconsistency. Outside of his little 5-6 game splurge he has had a very mediocre season. I have nothing against him personally, as he seems a good guy, etc. But I do agree with you that he is our most valuable and most logical trading chip to obtain another piece that we need badly, especially dependent on what we do and select at the draft.
We have other players of his size, skill and pedigree that are much better players to be frank, and it's time to round out the team.

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03-19-2012, 11:22 AM
  #133
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Wish I didn't have to suffer through four or five pages of Replacement-spawned arguments. It's killing nearly every thread on HFOil.

Petry had a tough one tonight. Some of it was just dumb luck.
Hemsky was stellar tonight. I think he loved being paired with Hartikainen, who complemented his game perfectly.
Eberle was getting beat up tonight and that first hit was a penalty and the refs knew it - hence the makeup call a minute later.
Peckham had an improved game.
That OT PP was horrendous. RNH with Potter always. So dumb.
Don't get Omark on the third line. I still think he could effective with Horcoff and Smyth - like putting cheese on broccoli.

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03-19-2012, 11:25 AM
  #134
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I'm just making the Gilbert comparison kinda tongue-in-cheek b/c the Gagner debates are similar.

The problem for guys like Hemsky and Gagner is that they only seem to bring their A games every 2nd game or less.

I like the fact that Sam is willing to mix it up when he struggles, I just wonder how many years of being inconsistent it takes before we just accept that this is who he is.

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03-19-2012, 11:33 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Pennertration View Post
Regarding the whole Torres vs. Eager thing, I'm still trying to figure out why Eager would be the comparable. Because of the borderline hits maybe?

I always saw Eager/Hordichuk as replacements for Smacintyre/JFJ/Storts, which I think is an upgrade. Regardless of how well your goon can fight, he has to be able to skate in this NHL. And yes, Eager has been disappointing this season but he has also strung together some games where he's been very effective/impressive (maybe in that sense he's like Torres too - invisible for long stretches until he finally shows up). In any event, I have no problem with him being back for another season and in fact think that Renney could probably get more out of him if he gave him a larger role.

As for Torres, you know what you get with him. Usually invisible but always capable of scoring, as he did last night. There is a reason other teams haven't committed to him as well. As for a comparable on the Oilers, I'd say Jones and Petrell are closer in role to Raffi than Eager is and I have no problem with either of those guys.

And regarding last night's loss - it ****s the Flames so I like it. Oilers still got a point and could've won. I just hope they win all there other games that are not against the Kings.
The Eager comparison just came up because of discussion thats been happening on the board lately re: Eager who I feel has done nothing all year. I agree with you that Jones and Petrell are more the comparables right now. But I'd rather have Raffi on the club. I think an interesting way of looking at it is Raffi would kind of be Jones+Eager combined except for fighting which he doesn't do.

Torres was available, and the Oilers chose not to show interest. At the same time they bought into Eager, which is why I include him in the conversation the way I do. The org got it wrong. They've been wrong before about Torres.

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03-19-2012, 11:35 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Truth Movement View Post
Wish I didn't have to suffer through four or five pages of Replacement-spawned arguments. It's killing nearly every thread on HFOil.

Petry had a tough one tonight. Some of it was just dumb luck.
Hemsky was stellar tonight. I think he loved being paired with Hartikainen, who complemented his game perfectly.
Eberle was getting beat up tonight and that first hit was a penalty and the refs knew it - hence the makeup call a minute later.
Peckham had an improved game.
That OT PP was horrendous. RNH with Potter always. So dumb.
Don't get Omark on the third line. I still think he could effective with Horcoff and Smyth - like putting cheese on broccoli.
If u don't like his posts, ignore him.

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03-19-2012, 11:38 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by GreatestOilFan View Post
If u don't like his posts, ignore him.
Then I end up losing the context of 80% of the posts on this site.

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Old
03-19-2012, 11:39 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
The whole Eager/Torres thing is just some posters infatuation with those types of players and how much a difference makers they would be. Honestly if Torres was here and playng alongside say Gagner and Hemsky you can bet he would be taking the blame from posters for their poor contributions these past 12 games or so.

I am surprised they haven't posted that we lost the game because of Hordichuk yet
I'm kinda surprised you wouldn't approve of Torres playing here.

Hordichuk is at least useful. Something Eager hasn't been all season. Plus its obvious this club needs more hitting and that 150 hits/yr from a guy like Torres that can really hammer would be welcomed.

Torres would look good playing with Sam or Hemsky or even playing with guys like Belanger and Petrell. Raffi manages to get some production on largely bottom 6 minutes. I should add that last night was one of the sexier stints he gets in Phoenix. Now playing him more minutes in the crunch the last 4games, and with a mix of linemates and even seeing some of Doan. Coyotes are really offensively challenged and Torres is a guy that can make a contribution that way when used in that role.

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03-19-2012, 11:41 AM
  #139
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Then I end up losing the context of 80% of the posts on this site.
true dat, but i just don't understand why people don't like him.

He brings good arguments and makes valid points. There are times I disagree with him but he can back up his facts.

Unlike IATL who makes smug comments and replies with childish immature .GIF to ruffle feathers..

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03-19-2012, 11:43 AM
  #140
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Then I end up losing the context of 80% of the posts on this site.
Kind of a silly comment given that I only post in about 10% of the threads on the board. But thanks for badmouthing me in a thread I'm actually reading. At least you're upfront about it.

I guess this place would be a ghosttown in your mind without me posting here. Interesting thought while blaming me for the demise of a messageboard. I'm sure I'm good for hits and ***** and giggles if nothing else

If it seems I derail some threads its usually also a sign that the threads not getting any other attention. Like this thread. People apparently didn't care about the game, result, or another meaningless stretch of games. Theres no interest in this thread. At least theres some talk about something. Would it be better as a 3 page thread?

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03-19-2012, 11:43 AM
  #141
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Not sure if it was mentioned, but with the way the schedule works with Western teams playing each other and whatnot, the Oilers have now been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.

Maybe next year?

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03-19-2012, 11:44 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I'm kinda surprised you wouldn't approve of Torres playing here.

Hordichuk is at least useful. Something Eager hasn't been all season. Plus its obvious this club needs more hitting and that 150 hits/yr from a guy like Torres that can really hammer would be welcomed.

Torres would look good playing with Sam or Hemsky or even playing with guys like Belanger and Petrell. Raffi manages to get some production on largely bottom 6 minutes. I should add that last night was one of the sexier stints he gets in Phoenix. Now playing him more minutes in the crunch the last 4games, and with a mix of linemates and even seeing some of Doan. Coyotes are really offensively challenged and Torres is a guy that can make a contribution that way when used in that role.
Nothing against Torres at all. He would just be a convienent scapegoat for many posters around here. Like Eager or Jones or Hordichuk. The problem with scapegoating those types of players is they are not the reason at all why the Oilers have had a poor season.

Everyone knows were the problem lies. It is pretty evident on the scoresheet every night

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03-19-2012, 11:50 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
Nothing against Torres at all. He would just be a convienent scapegoat for many posters around here. Like Eager or Jones or Hordichuk. The problem with scapegoating those types of players is they are not the reason at all why the Oilers have had a poor season.

Everyone knows were the problem lies. It is pretty evident on the scoresheet every night
Thanks for clarifying. Just to make it clear as well I'd have little problem with Eager if he was actually bringing some semblance of a game and without braincramps. He's just not dialing it up much. Injuries I guess so we'll see what next season holds.

We need a lot more hits on this club.

I always look at it like if you bring a hitting game as a club theres more chance of being the hammer than the nail. We're being the Nail an awful lot. Maybe to fail.

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03-19-2012, 11:52 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Truth Movement View Post
Wish I didn't have to suffer through four or five pages of Replacement-spawned arguments. It's killing nearly every thread on HFOil.

Petry had a tough one tonight. Some of it was just dumb luck.
Hemsky was stellar tonight. I think he loved being paired with Hartikainen, who complemented his game perfectly.
Eberle was getting beat up tonight and that first hit was a penalty and the refs knew it - hence the makeup call a minute later.
Peckham had an improved game.
That OT PP was horrendous. RNH with Potter always. So dumb.
Don't get Omark on the third line. I still think he could effective with Horcoff and Smyth - like putting cheese on broccoli.
- Hemsky had one of the better games he has had in a while. Maybe he saw Hall go down and felt the need to try to pick up his game to fill the void. Having a guy like Harski who can create space for skilled players like Hemsky is a good recipe for success.

- The PP set up with the possibility of a RNH -> Potter one-timer opens up the space needed for a RNH -> Eberle pass. Granted it doesnt have to be Potter it should probably be Petry. Potter's best weapon is his point shot. The OT PP was brutal because of Whitney and Gagner's positioning, and Renney's line creations.

- Cheese on broccoli is a good thing

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03-19-2012, 11:52 AM
  #145
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Kind of a silly comment given that I only post in about 10% of the threads on the board. But thanks for badmouthing me in a thread I'm actually reading. At least you're upfront about it.

I guess this place would be a ghosttown in your mind without me posting here. Interesting thought while blaming me for the demise of a messageboard. I'm sure I'm good for hits and ***** and giggles if nothing else

If it seems I derail some threads its usually also a sign that the threads not getting any other attention. Like this thread. People apparently didn't care about the game, result, or another meaningless stretch of games. Theres no interest in this thread. At least theres some talk about something. Would it be better as a 3 page thread?
Well, we'll never know with this thread, since you jumped in by Page 2 and a good amount of the remainder of the thread was in response to your love of Torres or Gagner. I'll give you credit, you're eloquent, seemingly intelligent and clear-headed in your responses, I just felt like there wasn't much time before this thread became another case of The Replacement Show. You're a good/great poster, but too often lately I see your avatar pop up and it's like, "Oh crap, there goes this thread..."

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03-19-2012, 12:01 PM
  #146
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Well, we'll never know with this thread, since you jumped in by Page 2 and a good amount of the remainder of the thread was in response to your love of Torres or Gagner. I'll give you credit, you're eloquent, seemingly intelligent and clear-headed in your responses, I just felt like there wasn't much time before this thread became another case of The Replacement Show. You're a good/great poster, but too often lately I see your avatar pop up and it's like, "Oh crap, there goes this thread..."
Thanks for responding.

You may want to rethink how this thread went. I didn't post in it until nearly an hour after game ended. At that point there were a paltry 35 posts on the thread and usually with a PGT flipping a few or more pages by then. This was a dead thread from the word go. People disgusted, disinterested, as they were in the GDT which I didn't post much in (I think one post)

I liked the game overall. Result is tough but as I've said all year teams that play us reasonably well make us be better. Conversely I can't stand watching us play Columbus. Its usually like free bingo spot on the calender and games like that don't teach anything.

Theres more for the Oil to learn in games like this.

Savvy for a tired Coyotes team to bag the win. They had nothing left in the tank by the second period, but somehow dialed it up for the 3rd.

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03-19-2012, 12:13 PM
  #147
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Thanks for responding.

You may want to rethink how this thread went. I didn't post in it until nearly an hour after game ended. At that point there were a paltry 35 posts on the thread and usually with a PGT flipping a few or more pages by then. This was a dead thread from the word go. People disgusted, disinterested, as they were in the GDT which I didn't post much in (I think one post)

I liked the game overall. Result is tough but as I've said all year teams that play us reasonably well make us be better. Conversely I can't stand watching us play Columbus. Its usually like free bingo spot on the calender and games like that don't teach anything.

Theres more for the Oil to learn in games like this.

Savvy for a tired Coyotes team to bag the win. They had nothing left in the tank by the second period, but somehow dialed it up for the 3rd.
Fair enough. I went to the game and then went home and hopped in bed with my wife, so I wasn't on the thread. I came in to work this morning and went through the thread and without checking the time of each post, the thread's narrative kind of read like this: people overreacting about the result, overreacting about Petry's poor night and then *boom* The Replacement Show: The Torres Love-In Edition.
Maybe I'm just a little punch drunk this morning and maybe it's true that this board would be dead without your Devil's Advocate-isms, but I just feel a little maxed out on certain repeating discussions, while not necessarily being maxed out on Oilers talk.

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03-19-2012, 12:14 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by GreatestOilFan View Post
true dat, but i just don't understand why people don't like him.

He brings good arguments and makes valid points. There are times I disagree with him but he can back up his facts.

Unlike IATL who makes smug comments and replies with childish immature .GIF to ruffle feathers..


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03-19-2012, 12:18 PM
  #149
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Yeah what is the deal with the Torres comments? Who cares guys gone, been gone for a long time. I like him and I do think he would be a solid 4th line guy but I never had a problem with rolling the dice on Brule.

If anything I am sad that Brule is not an Oiler. He has talent and I think he can develope into a nice 3rd line player. Eager - Brule - Petrell would have been a pretty nasty combo with some upside IMO. I would have really liked that 4th line.

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03-19-2012, 12:24 PM
  #150
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Fans who love Renney and have adopted his losing is okay attitude will be okay with this game and see it as yet another "game to learn from".

What did they learn last night.

-Eberle learned that he can play his butt off, take multiple hard hits and none of his teammates will defend him, just like no one defended Hall. It was obvious against the Flames that Eberle was the only player who played with extra fire after Sarich tried to destroy Hall.

-Horcoff learned that he can continue his unengaged play for another few years and collect his pay check.

-Gagner learned that if he doesnt step up when a top player like Hall goes down that someone else will, and he will still get top minutes.

Honestly the only thing that should be learned is that losing like that is not acceptable and they outplayed Phoenix for 40 minutes, and being satisfied with playing a good 40 minutes is BS.

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