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Old
03-19-2012, 12:42 PM
  #76
ck20
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Dubinsky should be dealt in the off-season to make room and re-stock the cupboard. The Leafs make some sense. Maybe Sather could get Tyler Biggs from the Leafs. He is a big, tough kid who likes to hit A LOT and stir it up. Playing at Miami of Ohio in the NCAA. Many here wanted him at the draft last year. Another American kid.

Offensive potential is not overly high. Probably projects at his highest to be a complimentary 2nd liner due to his size and strength. Most likely will be a very good 3rd line checker who can put up 15-20g and 15-20a while having over 100PIM's.
So essentially trading Dubi for a younger version of himself just to get rid of Dubi's under-production and contract to begin with. We NEED offense, not "could be a decent 2nd liner or good 3rd liner." Then what happens when he puts up that 20g-20a season and gets awarded with a $4mil/yr 4-year contract, then falters? We're back at "We need to unload this kid, he's not producing!" instead of kicking around the idea of packaging Dubi to get a REAL offensive threat. This team is done looking for those 2nd-3rd line tweeners right now considering half the team already fits that role, we have to start aiming at higher-end talent. In my mind, the word "threat" is key; a player that is nearly always a threat to either score or be in the mix. This isn't fantasy hockey either, PIMs aren't a desirable trait.

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03-19-2012, 12:45 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by htk30 View Post
So essentially trading Dubi for a younger version of himself just to get rid of Dubi's under-production and contract to begin with. We NEED offense, not "could be a decent 2nd liner or good 3rd liner." Then what happens when he puts up that 20g-20a season and gets awarded with a $4mil/yr 4-year contract, then falters? We're back at "We need to unload this kid, he's not producing!" instead of kicking around the idea of packaging Dubi to get a REAL offensive threat. This team is done looking for those 2nd-3rd line tweeners right now considering half the team already fits that role, we have to start aiming at higher-end talent. In my mind, the word "threat" is key; a player that is nearly always a threat to either score or be in the mix. This isn't fantasy hockey either, PIMs aren't a desirable trait.
What "real offensive threat" do you really see would be traded for Dubinsky?

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03-19-2012, 12:51 PM
  #78
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Hey tough guy if you knew anything about hockey youd know assits can mean more than goals and goals are not everything in value of a player.

However with Dubi hes a second/3rd line player as it appears, but a very good one, hes having an off year condidence is down. I hope if he hits his stride with goals and points he doesent hold back he goes for it and really allows himself to play how he can.

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Old
03-19-2012, 01:00 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by htk30 View Post
So essentially trading Dubi for a younger version of himself just to get rid of Dubi's under-production and contract to begin with. We NEED offense, not "could be a decent 2nd liner or good 3rd liner." Then what happens when he puts up that 20g-20a season and gets awarded with a $4mil/yr 4-year contract, then falters? We're back at "We need to unload this kid, he's not producing!" instead of kicking around the idea of packaging Dubi to get a REAL offensive threat. This team is done looking for those 2nd-3rd line tweeners right now considering half the team already fits that role, we have to start aiming at higher-end talent. In my mind, the word "threat" is key; a player that is nearly always a threat to either score or be in the mix. This isn't fantasy hockey either, PIMs aren't a desirable trait.
Did you read my post? Trade Dubinsky for a good young prospect and then sign Parise with the money opened up. Parise is the impact forward. Biggs would fit the mold of this team to a 'T', and yes, while PIM's may not always be a desirable trait, I'll take a Lucic/Kassian/Clowe type of player who has perennial 100+PIM seasons over John Mitchell and his 10.

There are different types of penalties......

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03-19-2012, 01:13 PM
  #80
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id look to trade dubi at the draft for a good first round pick.

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03-19-2012, 01:31 PM
  #81
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id look to trade dubi at the draft for a good first round pick.
I don't think you'd get that for him at this point. Just signed a big contract and crapped the bed the season afterward. I think the best we'd do would be to get another "change of scenery" type back in exchange. I.e., a Drew Stafford or Chris Stewart.

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03-19-2012, 01:36 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I don't think you'd get that for him at this point. Just signed a big contract and crapped the bed the season afterward. I think the best we'd do would be to get another "change of scenery" type back in exchange. I.e., a Drew Stafford or Chris Stewart.
i dont think so, i think, given the market out there on young power players, he could fetch a pretty decent return. a 20's first rounder.

maybe im way off base. who knows. tough to say in this market...i mean, Gaustad fetched a first...so who the hell knows.

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Old
03-19-2012, 02:02 PM
  #83
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I would say Mike Fischer is a comparable. He returned a 1st rounder from Nashville.

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03-19-2012, 02:16 PM
  #84
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i dont think so, i think, given the market out there on young power players, he could fetch a pretty decent return. a 20's first rounder.

maybe im way off base. who knows. tough to say in this market...i mean, Gaustad fetched a first...so who the hell knows.
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I would say Mike Fischer is a comparable. He returned a 1st rounder from Nashville.
In this case, I think what is working against Dubinsky is the fact that he's under contract for a few more years at a pretty significant number. Fisher and Gaustad were both deadline (or close to it) deals which tends to drive up the price quite a bit.

I dunno. I think he's gone over the summer one way or another. He's not performing, and Artie is a good, inexpensive option as a 3rd line center. Writing is on the wall, IMO.

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03-19-2012, 02:25 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
In case you haven't noticed, five or six people is not unanimous among posters in this thread. You seem to have a problem with disagreement. I gave up arguing with you once your ego started taking over lol. Toodles, bud.
Who else agreed with you? I never said unanimous. What i did say is that you ignored EVERYONE who disagreed with you and agreed with me. Again very interesting that you did this and then ignored the point altogether. You can be mad about my ego but my ego certainly has nothing to do with the other posters who disagreed with you. Ironically since you brought up unanimous I think it was a near unanimous agreement not with me but with the POINT that i was advocating. That point being that Dubs is the offensive underperformer. The other guys are doing exactly what should have been expected.

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03-19-2012, 02:25 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
In this case, I think what is working against Dubinsky is the fact that he's under contract for a few more years at a pretty significant number. Fisher and Gaustad were both deadline (or close to it) deals which tends to drive up the price quite a bit.

I dunno. I think he's gone over the summer one way or another. He's not performing, and Artie is a good, inexpensive option as a 3rd line center. Writing is on the wall, IMO.
Fischer was signed for more than just that season when he was dealt as well but I agree, I am more hoping he could return a low 1st rounder....

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03-19-2012, 04:56 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
U mad, bro?

Boyle wasn't scoring fluke goals last season. He was coming into his own, it was one season, but the way he was putting the puck in the net makes it frustrating to see him under perform so much compared to last year, because last year he showed his real offensive potential. This is indeed a down year for him, not the norm. I didn't cone into this season expecting 20+ from him buy he should be putting in at least 10-14 goals.

There's a reason Torts has expressed frustration with Boyle's production. It's because he's simply better than this.
No he's not. He is what you are seeing now. And I hate to break the bubble but he's not that good defensively. His best trait is his effort. His skills are AHL.

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Old
03-19-2012, 10:12 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
In this case, I think what is working against Dubinsky is the fact that he's under contract for a few more years at a pretty significant number. Fisher and Gaustad were both deadline (or close to it) deals which tends to drive up the price quite a bit.

I dunno. I think he's gone over the summer one way or another. He's not performing, and Artie is a good, inexpensive option as a 3rd line center. Writing is on the wall, IMO.

Exactly. Fisher and Gaustad were both deadline deals, and they both returned 1st round picks. Both of those guys had also crossed the "30" threshold when traded as well, and Gaustad's career high in points is below Dubinsky's career low.

If "the writing on the wall" is that Dubinsky has to be traded in the summer, then whoever wrote on that wall is a dope. It would be abysmal asset management to trade Dubinsky before the 2013 trade deadline. His contract won't hold up any signings over the summer (especially with the talk that the cap is going up). By waiting for the deadline, you give him a chance to bounce back from his first down season (like Del Zotto, Gaborik and hundreds of other players). If he doesn't bounce back, you could still get a 1st + at the deadline. He'd be a 40+ point, 26 year old, physical player who can play any forward position, PK and turns his game up in the playoffs. If you don't think a guy like that returns a 1st + at the trade deadline, regardless of the contract, then you haven't been paying attention to deadline trades since the lockout.

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Old
03-19-2012, 11:54 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by JimmyStart View Post
Who else agreed with you? I never said unanimous. What i did say is that you ignored EVERYONE who disagreed with you and agreed with me. Again very interesting that you did this and then ignored the point altogether. You can be mad about my ego but my ego certainly has nothing to do with the other posters who disagreed with you. Ironically since you brought up unanimous I think it was a near unanimous agreement not with me but with the POINT that i was advocating. That point being that Dubs is the offensive underperformer. The other guys are doing exactly what should have been expected.
Quote:
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Alright guys, isn't this where the mods say: 2 minutes each for unsportsmanlike conduct and 10 minute misconducts.


Last edited by wafflepadsave: 03-20-2012 at 12:43 AM.
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Old
03-20-2012, 12:29 PM
  #90
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:



Alright guys, isn't this where the mods say: 2 minutes each for unsportsmanlike conduct and 10 minute misconducts.
I didnt actually even see what the video was suppossed to be but obviously i could guess it had nothing to do with debating. Stood out to me he was simultaneously dragging me off point and ignoring all the other on point posts that disagreed so i tried to drag it back to some semblance of on topicness and point that out. Shrug. very animated post there damn.

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Old
03-20-2012, 10:30 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by JimmyStart View Post
I didnt actually even see what the video was suppossed to be but obviously i could guess it had nothing to do with debating. Stood out to me he was simultaneously dragging me off point and ignoring all the other on point posts that disagreed so i tried to drag it back to some semblance of on topicness and point that out. Shrug. very animated post there damn.
Yeah, I sat there and laughed at the smilies.

Bottom line is this. These playoffs will go a long ways toward determining who gets moved this summer. This team is a year ahead of schedule so I think they go for it next season.

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