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Hamilton also has those two other franchises not an hour away from where city proper is. I do not think you can assume all of the GTA surrounding Hamilton will devote themselves to Team Hamilton instead of the Toronto Maple Leafs. The Leafs are simply too powerful in this market. Team Hamilton will always be to Toronto what the Clippers were to the Lakers. The moment I saw you include the Buffalo market in your reasoning for Hamilton to get a franchise is the same moment I stopped taking your post seriously. My god. Really? That's stretching it.
Little bit of contradiction there, no?
Regardless, I included the Buffalo market because it worked with the message. That is, to emphasize the size difference between not only the Southern Ontario market and Saskatoon, but the wider Western Canadian market. It was definitely stretch, though it should be noted, it is a shorter drive between Hamilton and Buffalo than Saskatoon and Regina.
The Clippers comparison isn't really a fair one, as for every Leafs fan in Southern Ontario, you have a person who hates everything about the team or is just a general fan of the NHL. The demand for NHL hockey in Southern Ontario is so high, a team would be a guaranteed success, regardless of being overshadowed by the Leafs (which team isn't?).
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You do not strictly need a strong population to house a franchise. Look at Phoenix. Look at Atlanta. The list goes on. We have seen so many failed franchises in our beloved league and we still use population as a basis to judge whether or not a city can house an NHL team or not. It doesn't work.
We aren't talking about Phoenix or Atlanta or some city where the temperature never approaches zero Celsius. Your directly comparing it to another Canadian market, where hockey is far and away the number 1 sport.
So, yes, population does matter a whole lot in this case, especially when discussing a city thats smaller than Vaughan.
Saskatoon gives a new definition to a 'marginal market,' while a team in Hamilton (or a team elsewhere in Southern Ontario) is expected to be among the top money makers in the league
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Not too long ago Winnipeg getting a hockey team was a pipe dream. And now, the MTS Centre is sold out for the next 10 years. Goes to show what a little timing, a little money, and a lot of Prarie Hockey Lovin' will do for a team. We see the overwhelming support for the Roughriders in Saskatchewan. For ******* football. Jesus Christ, I can't even imagine what would happen if they got a hockey team. I guarantee they would get extraordinary support from the province, fan, economic, et al. More than some of the Canadian teams in the league right now.
Winnipeg still has close to triple the population of Saskatoon.
What happens when the team misses the playoffs 2 or 3 years in a row? Will people still pay some of the highest ticket prices in pro sports? Will people still drive on weeknights from Regina?
This isn't the CFL, where the average payroll is $4 million. An NHL team needs to spend at least $50 million on player salaries alone, and unless you have Don Maloney as GM and Dave Tippett as coach, that would likely get you a last place team.
Even if it was viable, ask yourself, why would the NHL even want go there? What do they gain from going to a market of 260,000?
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Sure, a lot of Canadians come here and laugh at the possibility of Saskatoon getting a hockey team. They are also the same Canadians that think everyone in Saskatchewan farms wheat and everyone in Nunavut lives in igloos. I'm not gunna change their opinion.
Yes, thats it. Clearly. Did you actually read my post?
Regardless, I included the Buffalo market because it worked with the message. That is, to emphasize the size difference between not only the Southern Ontario market and Saskatoon, but the wider Western Canadian market. It was definitely stretch, though it should be noted, it is a shorter drive between Hamilton and Buffalo than Saskatoon and Regina.
The Clippers comparison isn't really a fair one, as for every Leafs fan in Southern Ontario, you have a person who hates everything about the team or is just a general fan of the NHL. The demand for NHL hockey in Southern Ontario is so high, a team would be a guaranteed success, regardless of being overshadowed by the Leafs (which team isn't?).
We aren't talking about Phoenix or Atlanta or some city where the temperature never approaches zero Celsius. Your directly comparing it to another Canadian market, where hockey is far and away the number 1 sport.
So, yes, population does matter a whole lot in this case, especially when discussing a city thats smaller than Vaughan.
Saskatoon gives a new definition to a 'marginal market,' while a team in Hamilton (or a team elsewhere in Southern Ontario) is expected to be among the top money makers in the league
Winnipeg still has close to triple the population of Saskatoon.
What happens when the team misses the playoffs 2 or 3 years in a row? Will people still pay some of the highest ticket prices in pro sports? Will people still drive on weeknights from Regina?
This isn't the CFL, where the average payroll is $4 million. An NHL team needs to spend at least $50 million on player salaries alone, and unless you have Don Maloney as GM and Dave Tippett as coach, that would likely get you a last place team.
Even if it was viable, ask yourself, why would the NHL even want go there? What do they gain from going to a market of 260,000?
Yes, thats it. Clearly. Did you actually read my post?
Guy most people don't know where Vaughan is. And if we comparing towns, Let's remember Mississauga is Bigger then Winnipeg by more than 100,000. Brampton is also the same size as Vancouver. The Cilppers compasion is completely fair. Granted LA's 18 million vs our (GTHA) 6.5 million, but it is still valid, especially since the Clips played in Anaheim before. LA = Basketball like Toronto = Hockey. The only way the Leafs get knocked of their perch is if the NFL comes to town on a permanent basis. As for the wheat thing. It is still their secondary industry so I don't see how that's a stereotype.
But your general point still stands. The NHL would probably gain nothing from this.
There is no proof. Shootmaster_44 is just trying to be a jerk.
Nope I am not, I looked for the links and archive.com doesn't have them any longer. But I remember reading it on one of the Moose boards around the time the Jets came back and the Moose were leaving. Plus, I spoke to some colleagues from Winnipeg while I was there for work and this is what I had heard.
Quite frankly, I have no vested interest in seeing Winnipeg fail. I'm sorry that I am not excited about your favourite team. But the reality is I'm sure not every person in Winnipeg is excited about the Jets. Some of the fans remember having a team that left and aren't as emotionally invested in it as they were the first go round.
Nope I am not, I looked for the links and archive.com doesn't have them any longer. But I remember reading it on one of the Moose boards around the time the Jets came back and the Moose were leaving. Plus, I spoke to some colleagues from Winnipeg while I was there for work and this is what I had heard.
Quite frankly, I have no vested interest in seeing Winnipeg fail. I'm sorry that I am not excited about your favourite team. But the reality is I'm sure not every person in Winnipeg is excited about the Jets. Some of the fans remember having a team that left and aren't as emotionally invested in it as they were the first go round.
I have no idea why you had to defend that comment. I would be surprised if more than 9 million people in this country liked hockey.
I'd be surprised if there were 10 million avid team sports fans in Canada.
From that, there is a not-insignificant amount of people that prefer other team sports (basketball, football, baseball, lacrosse, etc.)
But hey, about 6+ million hockey fans is still pretty large.
Yes exactly. It would be interesting to see how many people consider themselves avid sports fan of a particular sport, but don't like hockey.
I'd wager a guess that even at hockey games there are probably some fans who don't even like hockey, especially at Leafs games. I am referring to business clients brought to games as "entertainment" not making light of some perceived idea about Toronto.
But this does raise an interesting point about any team moving anywhere. I keep hearing the phrase hockey mad being bandied about for Saskatchewan. I'd be curious how many of these people that people are lumping in with this fanbase are really hockey mad and how many happen to be children?
I'm thinking a fair number of adults who drive their kids to hockey games or tournaments hundreds of miles away are not actually hockey fans. I never played hockey growing up, but I'd figure some hockey parents are like my mom. My brother and I both played football, she'd come to all our games and cheer us on. But to catch her at a Riders game, we'd have had to have dragged her there. She went to the games because we were playing, not because she loves the sport. I figure at least some parents aren't hockey fans but more fans of their childrens' activities.
I don't think this phenomenon would hurt the Sheiks' (my name for the team in Saskatoon) attendance. But it is a point that needs raising, don't assume that every parent involved in minor hockey would latch on to the NHL. For that matter, with the costs involved in minor hockey, one would wonder whether many parents could even afford the NHL.
But here's something that seems to suggest the entire province would support the team. In today's Saskatoon StarPhoenix they had an article about the effect on the WHL in Saskatchewan.
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"People only have so much income they can spend on entertainment," said Regina Pats governor and president Brent Parker. "It does leave a limited amount of dollars that are out there for people to continue to enjoy junior hockey."...
Because Regina is the province's second-largest city and is more than 250 kilometres away from Saskatoon, Parker said the Pats could likely sustain the impact of an NHL team. He said the bigger concern would be a team like Prince Albert, where the smallmarket Raiders are fewer than 150 kilometres away.
Bruno Campese shares that sentiment. While the Raiders' general manager called the prospects of an NHL team in Saskatoon "hypothetical," "far-fetched" and "idle talk," he said there would be a "detrimental impact" on the Prince Albert WHL club in the oft chance that it did happen.
Looks like the Pats and Raiders are thinking the NHL would hurt them. I also think the SJHL clubs much closer to Saskatoon would take a hit. Battlefords and Humboldt are both with an hour drive of Saskatoon, so I'd think fans from those places would gravitate toward the NHL. Living in Lloydminster I see this with the AJHL Bobcats, seems a lot more hockey fans here are willing to make the drive to Edmonton for a game. The Bobcats on the other hand nearly moved to Whitecourt, AB at the end of last season due to poor attendance.
The owners have been very tight lipped so far, On Ice Management Group Inc., led by Toronto businessman John Graham is the group looking to bring a team to the city. They also negotiate what has been yearly NHL exhibition games for a few years now. They have already chosen not to comment on the situation until anything is official. Smart way to go about it as they won't piss any NHL brass off.
Thank you. I didn't know we had a name. Based on the Winnipeg example, it all starts with ownership.
I'd be surprised if there were 10 million avid team sports fans in Canada.
From that, there is a not-insignificant amount of people that prefer other team sports (basketball, football, baseball, lacrosse, etc.)
But hey, about 6+ million hockey fans is still pretty large.
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Originally Posted by Shootmaster_44
Yes exactly. It would be interesting to see how many people consider themselves avid sports fan of a particular sport, but don't like hockey.
I'd wager a guess that even at hockey games there are probably some fans who don't even like hockey, especially at Leafs games. I am referring to business clients brought to games as "entertainment" not making light of some perceived idea about Toronto.
But this does raise an interesting point about any team moving anywhere. I keep hearing the phrase hockey mad being bandied about for Saskatchewan. I'd be curious how many of these people that people are lumping in with this fanbase are really hockey mad and how many happen to be children?
I'm thinking a fair number of adults who drive their kids to hockey games or tournaments hundreds of miles away are not actually hockey fans. I never played hockey growing up, but I'd figure some hockey parents are like my mom. My brother and I both played football, she'd come to all our games and cheer us on. But to catch her at a Riders game, we'd have had to have dragged her there. She went to the games because we were playing, not because she loves the sport. I figure at least some parents aren't hockey fans but more fans of their childrens' activities.
I don't think this phenomenon would hurt the Sheiks' (my name for the team in Saskatoon) attendance. But it is a point that needs raising, don't assume that every parent involved in minor hockey would latch on to the NHL. For that matter, with the costs involved in minor hockey, one would wonder whether many parents could even afford the NHL.
But here's something that seems to suggest the entire province would support the team. In today's Saskatoon StarPhoenix they had an article about the effect on the WHL in Saskatchewan.
Looks like the Pats and Raiders are thinking the NHL would hurt them. I also think the SJHL clubs much closer to Saskatoon would take a hit. Battlefords and Humboldt are both with an hour drive of Saskatoon, so I'd think fans from those places would gravitate toward the NHL. Living in Lloydminster I see this with the AJHL Bobcats, seems a lot more hockey fans here are willing to make the drive to Edmonton for a game. The Bobcats on the other hand nearly moved to Whitecourt, AB at the end of last season due to poor attendance.
Great points. Honestly I have always said that sports as a whole is not as important as it is made out to be by the media. I a lot of people who hate sports and hate hockey right here in the city. Sports is great but if Toronto had no teams it would not affect me in the slightest.
Thank you. I didn't know we had a name. Based on the Winnipeg example, it all starts with ownership.
Anybody know anything about him? He isn't listed on Canadian Business magazine's 100 richest Canadians, meaning his net worth is likely under $600 million.
One things for sure, he better have some serious dough if he hopes to run a franchise out of a city that small.
Anybody know anything about him? He isn't listed on Canadian Business magazine's 100 richest Canadians, meaning his net worth is likely under $600 million.
One things for sure, he better have some serious dough if he hopes to run a franchise out of a city that small.
It is a group, not just the one guy. He may not even have the deepest pockets of the group but rather just be the best hockey buisnessman among them.
Yes, thats it. Clearly. Did you actually read my post?
