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Rangers interested in Justin Schultz as a free agent

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Old
03-19-2012, 03:13 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Snow Soccer View Post
Don't see why he'd sign with us TBH. I'd imagine he'd probably sign somewhere he can get PT.
Not sure about you, but the Rangers are now known as a team that is more than ready, willing and able to give playing time to young players.

One has to look no further than our current group of defenceman to get the sense that should he sign with us this summer, he will have every bit the opportunity to make the team and get significant playing time.

Who is he fighting with in preseason?

Sauer? Bickel?

He can easily make the team as the #6 defenceman paired with Erixon (assuming we keep him) and climb the roster with his performance.

The days of youngsters being rightfully concerned about legit opportunities in NY are LOOOOOONG gone.

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03-19-2012, 03:16 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR View Post
Yes, we really are.

Not only did Gilroy put up staggering numbers, while being billed as a star two-way D with great wheels, BUT all but like 4 NHL teams were legit trying to get.

Someone said he was 27. He wasn't, he was 25. Schultz is 21... that is not a tremendous difference when you're talking about polished prospects. Of course, pre-draft there is a huge difference between a 17-year-old kid and a 21-year-old OAer.

People put way too much emphasis on age, especially when you're talking 21-25, NCAA, non-pro... and remember, Gilroy was built like an 18-year-old.

I'm not saying don't sign him, just don't have expectations. Remember Gilroy and Thomas Pock (identical situation). Hell, remember the Zuccarellos, Heikkinens, Baldwins, Jamtins, Denisovs, Yeremeyevs, Fabian Brunnstroms (mostly Euros, but same fundamental concept, just drawing a blank on unrafted NCAA signees)... then again, remember the Girardis...
When it comes to defencemen, that IS a tremendous difference.

4 years of development time between the years of 21 and 25 for defenceman are HUGE.

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03-19-2012, 03:17 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Calad View Post
I might say Girardi would get moved after next season. Think about it, his value is at an all time high right now, his contract has a cap hit of 3.3 mill for another 2 seasons. Considering all the people who need to get raises in these next 2 years, we could get some great value. Staal is in almost the same position contractually but has an extra year and a slightly larger cap hit at 4 mill. I wouldn't wanna lose either of these guys but our cap situation will force our hand in dealing one of them by the 13-14 season.
Girardi isn't getting moved. He's the only legitimate top-4 righty defenseman we have at the moment and it will stay that way unless Sauer makes it back.

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03-19-2012, 03:32 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR View Post
Yes, we really are.

Not only did Gilroy put up staggering numbers, while being billed as a star two-way D with great wheels, BUT all but like 4 NHL teams were legit trying to get.

Someone said he was 27. He wasn't, he was 25. Schultz is 21... that is not a tremendous difference when you're talking about polished prospects. Of course, pre-draft there is a huge difference between a 17-year-old kid and a 21-year-old OAer.

People put way too much emphasis on age, especially when you're talking 21-25, NCAA, non-pro... and remember, Gilroy was built like an 18-year-old.

I'm not saying don't sign him, just don't have expectations. Remember Gilroy and Thomas Pock (identical situation). Hell, remember the Zuccarellos, Heikkinens, Baldwins, Jamtins, Denisovs, Yeremeyevs, Fabian Brunnstroms (mostly Euros, but same fundamental concept, just drawing a blank on unrafted NCAA signees)... then again, remember the Girardis...
This isn't an undrafted NCAA UFA we're talking about. This is a kid that was taken 43rd overall in the 2008 draft by the Ducks, who is not only meeting development expectations, but exceeding them considerably. This is the equivalent of Stepan or McDonagh deciding to leave Wisconsin and instead of agreeing to terms with the Rangers, they jumped ship for another team.

Have you actually seen Schultz play?

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03-19-2012, 03:37 PM
  #105
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I would put him on par with Stepan as far as skills go. Same type of development path as well.

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03-19-2012, 03:40 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Not sure about you, but the Rangers are now known as a team that is more than ready, willing and able to give playing time to young players.

One has to look no further than our current group of defenceman to get the sense that should he sign with us this summer, he will have every bit the opportunity to make the team and get significant playing time.

Who is he fighting with in preseason?

Sauer? Bickel?

He can easily make the team as the #6 defenceman paired with Erixon (assuming we keep him) and climb the roster with his performance.

The days of youngsters being rightfully concerned about legit opportunities in NY are LOOOOOONG gone.
Are you saying that this unproven college defenseman could EASILY beat out a healthy Michael Sauer for a spot on our team next year? If you are, you should never post again.

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03-19-2012, 03:48 PM
  #107
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Sign the kid if you can. Deal with the overload on the back end when it becomes a problem, not when you are projecting that it will be a problem. There's always a market for defensemen.

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03-19-2012, 03:51 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Are you saying that this unproven college defenseman could EASILY beat out a healthy Michael Sauer for a spot on our team next year? If you are, you should never post again.
You are assuming Sauer is completely healthy, when he hasn't even made much, if any, progress in his recovery. Even then, it wouldn't be Sauer he is trying to beat out for a spot, it would be the likes of Stralman, Bickel, Woywitka or Eminger. Also, it is certainly possible for a college defenseman to jump right into the NHL, or at least play a dozen or so games in the AHL and be able to play effectively in the NHL soon after.

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03-19-2012, 04:47 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by DatsyukSOGoal View Post
You are assuming Sauer is completely healthy, when he hasn't even made much, if any, progress in his recovery. Even then, it wouldn't be Sauer he is trying to beat out for a spot, it would be the likes of Stralman, Bickel, Woywitka or Eminger. Also, it is certainly possible for a college defenseman to jump right into the NHL, or at Rleast play a dozen or so games rin the AHL and be able to play seffectively in the NHL soonafter.
Read his post. His d was:

McD girardi
Staal MDZ
Erixon

And him easily beating out sauer and Bickel. That assume sauer is healthy. Why else mention him in the running for the spot?

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03-19-2012, 08:27 PM
  #110
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how good of a skater is he? is he a high end puck rushing dman?

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03-19-2012, 08:31 PM
  #111
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how good of a skater is he? is he a high end puck rushing dman?
Very good and yes.

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03-19-2012, 09:43 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Sign the kid if you can. Deal with the overload on the back end when it becomes a problem, not when you are projecting that it will be a problem. There's always a market for defensemen.
THIS. Sign now, worry two years from now when its a problem. If we need to unload someone we will find a market for them. I'm pretty sure any team in the league right now would love to add one of our top 4 and thats without erixon developed yet. It is also without the hypothetical Schultz and McIlrath who is still developing in juniors.

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03-19-2012, 10:19 PM
  #113
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I agree with you're first sentence. I know you have first hand knowledge of the NCAA having played there.

Its a great league. Huge league. I love the quality if the game. I love the fact they wear full facial protection. I love everything about NCAA hockey.

The only thing is I don't have an allegiance to any school because I didn't attend any school with a hockey team.

Gilroy had the potential. Its unfortunate he was such a late bloomer at that level. Had he been 20 at that point, he could have developed into a heck of an NHL player. Time was not on his side.

Schultz is a 21 year old that has been a top offensive defenseman for two of his three NCAA seasons. His only real weakness is physical strength. Which he can easily develop.

Im always 100% behind drafting players that are either in or committed to going to the NCAA.

And was upset, still sort of am, that the Rangers pushed Miller into the CHL.

UND has a legitimate shot to go to the Frozen Four and win it.

Plymouth has a shot to win the Memorial Cup.

But i prefer winning an NCAA Title while playing against young men in their 20's, rather than being on a dominant team beating mid-late teenagers.

There are pros and cons to each, its a debate that will never die. But ill always side with the NCAA and its feeder leagues USHL and BCHL.

I feel the options you have going the NCAA route are more beneficial to a young player. You aren't effected by the 20 year old rule regarding the AHL. You can chose to become a free agent. Yada yada.
To each one's own, but I enjoy watching CHL hockey much more than any league not named the NHL. The Memorial Cup in particular is a tournament in which I closely follow every year and my cousins up North Skype so that I can see the games. Much faster pace, much more exciting and generally more creative players.

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Old
03-19-2012, 11:09 PM
  #114
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The Rangers system and current roster are both devoid of what Schultz brings. MDZ is the closest thing but he's no longer that consistent puck rusher we saw in 2010.

When a kid like Schultz becomes available, you gun for him. End of story. Like someone said, he was a 2008 2nd rounder, not some overlooked kid who is gaining notoriety for piling up points on a stacked roster as a Senior.

Just dont expect him to jump right in and be the next Leetch. The Rangers defensemen are ordered not to shoot the puck off the cycle unless wide open, they pinch as a last resort and they rarely lug the puck past the blueline. The shot totals owned by the Rangers' defensemen proves that Torts wants his guys back.

Rangers need depth on defense. Sauer is up in the air. Staal looks like crap. Expect Erixon and Maclrath to replace Stralman, Eminger and Bickel on the depth chart as early as next year. That leaves Hartford barren.

IMO, outbid everyone for Schultz and maintain the best young defense in the game. By signing Schultz they can trade Erixon or McIlrath in a deal for a scoring winger, expect a bounceback season from both Staal and Sauer and lessen the workload of everyone else. That way, you will still have a top-6 of Staal, Sauer, Girardi, MDZ, Macdonagh and one of Schultz, Erixon or McIlrath.

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03-19-2012, 11:47 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
IMO, outbid everyone for Schultz and maintain the best young defense in the game. By signing Schultz they can trade Erixon or McIlrath in a deal for a scoring winger, expect a bounceback season from both Staal and Sauer and lessen the workload of everyone else. That way, you will still have a top-6 of Staal, Sauer, Girardi, MDZ, Macdonagh and one of Schultz, Erixon or McIlrath.
Entry level system basically puts everyone at level footing on money. You can't outbid other teams. Sell him on New York and the quality of the team.

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03-19-2012, 11:53 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Entry level system basically puts everyone at level footing on money. You can't outbid other teams. Sell him on New York and the quality of the team.
I'm going to assume it wouldnt hurt having two Wisconsin guys here, but for all we know they could have hated each other.

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03-20-2012, 01:20 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Girardi isn't getting moved. He's the only legitimate top-4 righty defenseman we have at the moment and it will stay that way unless Sauer makes it back.
This hypothetical scenario is 2 playoffs away and LOTS of things can happen by then

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03-20-2012, 07:56 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Rangers need depth on defense. Sauer is up in the air. Staal looks like crap. Expect Erixon and Maclrath to replace Stralman, Eminger and Bickel on the depth chart as early as next year. That leaves Hartford barren.
Mclrath is not playing in the NHL next year. By all rights, neither is Erixon. At least not to start the year. It is fine to like the young defensemen, it is entirely different to look at thigns realistically.

And you really expect that we have seen the best of Staal and that is that?

Quote:
IMO, outbid everyone for Schultz and maintain the best young defense in the game. By signing Schultz they can trade Erixon or McIlrath in a deal for a scoring winger, expect a bounceback season from both Staal and Sauer and lessen the workload of everyone else. That way, you will still have a top-6 of Staal, Sauer, Girardi, MDZ, Macdonagh and one of Schultz, Erixon or McIlrath.
You cannot outbid everyone. And second of all, you are treating Schultz like he has actually accomplished anything. You are willing to trade away promising youngsters that are further along in their development for a new shiny ornament.

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03-20-2012, 08:01 AM
  #119
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Is there really a good chance that this kid doesn't sign with the Ducks? Or is this all speculation?

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03-20-2012, 08:08 AM
  #120
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Is there really a good chance that this kid doesn't sign with the Ducks? Or is this all speculation?
There's a good chance he ends up as a FA, yes.

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03-20-2012, 08:31 AM
  #121
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Mclrath is not playing in the NHL next year. By all rights, neither is Erixon. At least not to start the year. It is fine to like the young defensemen, it is entirely different to look at thigns realistically.

And you really expect that we have seen the best of Staal and that is that?


You cannot outbid everyone. And second of all, you are treating Schultz like he has actually accomplished anything. You are willing to trade away promising youngsters that are further along in their development for a new shiny ornament.
I used the wrong term when I said "outbid". What I was trying to say is that they should offer a max ELC, which I believe would price out teams with internal cap/RFA/UFA issues in the offseason.

And yes, I'm slowly creeping off the Marc Staal bandwagon. For three reasons:

1) The team did fine without him this year. And by "fine", I mean top tier NHL team.
2) Elite players have all bounced back from concussions this year and not lost a step. Staal went from being on the cusp of a Norris nomination to Bruce Driver. We can only use the concussion excuse for so long. He's been skating and working out for four full months -- three in NHL games. I say sell now before it gets uglier.
3) Depth in the system: Erixon looks as good as Staal did in his first 20 or so games in 2008. Erixon is as highly regarded as Staal was in 2007.

If they acquire Schultz, there's a logjam. You dont hold on to all your prospects. Signing Schultz for peanuts enables the Rangers to move another defense prospect for a scoring winger (which I dont advocate right now). Like I said, there isnt a single d-man in the Rangers system who can do what Schultz can do.

Signing Schultz gives the Rangers leverage and makes them a deeper team. For 900K or so, it's a steal.

And why wouldnt Erixon play next year? He's playing now. The kid has nothing left to prove in the AHL. As for Mac, look at Staal -- two years post draft -- NHL. MDZ -- one year post draft -- NHL. Macdonagh -- half season post-NCAA---NHL.

Macilrath will have every opportunity to make the team out of camp next year. Unless you know something that I dont.

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03-20-2012, 08:43 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
1) The team did fine without him this year. And by "fine", I mean top tier NHL team.
And they would be worse with a legit top-pairing defensemen added to the mix?
Quote:
2) Elite players have all bounced back from concussions this year and not lost a step. Staal went from being on the cusp of a Norris nomination to Bruce Driver. We can only use the concussion excuse for so long. He's been skating and working out for four full months -- three in NHL games. I say sell now before it gets uglier.
So he is all washed up? Come on. The only player who was out as long as Staal was Crosby. ANd he sat out an additonal 3 months after coming back.
Quote:
3) Depth in the system: Erixon looks as good as Staal did in his first 20 or so games in 2008. Erixon is as highly regarded as Staal was in 2007.
Erixon looks NOTHING like Staal did. Staal was obviously ready. Erixon should be spendign another year in Hartford.
Quote:
If they acquire Schultz, there's a logjam. You dont hold on to all your prospects. Signing Schultz for peanuts enables the Rangers to move another defense prospect for a scoring winger (which I dont advocate right now). Like I said, there isnt a single d-man in the Rangers system who can do what Schultz can do.
Adn you know all this based on college play? Your beloved Erixon can't do what Shultz does? MCD or MDZ can't do what Schultz does?
Quote:
Signing Schultz gives the Rangers leverage and makes them a deeper team. For 900K or so, it's a steal.
That is not the argument. Off course, they should try to get him.
Quote:
And why wouldnt Erixon play next year? He's playing now. The kid has nothing left to prove in the AHL.
Becuase he does not look all that ready now. He was an absolute disaster vs. Colorado. He is in the lineup becuase of necessities.
Quote:
Macilrath will have every opportunity to make the team out of camp next year. Unless you know something that I dont.
How many kids have been making the Rangers without development in Hartford?

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03-20-2012, 08:46 AM
  #123
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Wouldn't Anaheim just trade Schultz's rights?

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03-20-2012, 09:24 AM
  #124
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And they would be worse with a legit top-pairing defensemen added to the mix?

So he is all washed up? Come on. The only player who was out as long as Staal was Crosby. ANd he sat out an additonal 3 months after coming back.

Erixon looks NOTHING like Staal did. Staal was obviously ready. Erixon should be spendign another year in Hartford.

Adn you know all this based on college play? Your beloved Erixon can't do what Shultz does? MCD or MDZ can't do what Schultz does?

That is not the argument. Off course, they should try to get him.

Becuase he does not look all that ready now. He was an absolute disaster vs. Colorado. He is in the lineup becuase of necessities.

How many kids have been making the Rangers without development in Hartford?

Staal started 2007 as a 5th-6th d-man. He was playing under 13 mins a game and then Malik was hurt and Staal was given more responsibility and he ran with it. The Rangers didnt have the depth in 2007 like they do now. Why in the hell does Erixon need more time in Hartford? Because of his 10 mins a game as a 6th defenseman? Erixon has nothing to prove or develop in Hartford. The kid played an additional two years in the SEL. He's ready. He just needs a chance.

Schultz gives the Rangers another dimension. Macdonagh and MDZ have the skating ability to rush the puck up the ice, but they rarely do. Neither has proven to be able to QB a PP, outside of the first 40 games of MDZ's rookie season.

And I never said Mcilrath would play the whole season with the Rangers. I said he'll have an opportunity to make the team out of camp. Both Staal and MDZ made the Rangers out of camp within two years of their draft year. Staal had a 12-game playoff stint in 2007 with the Wolfpack. The following October he was in NY.

Go back and read my quote. I said "Expect Mcilrath to replace Stralman, Bickel and Eminger" as early as next year. As early as.....as early as......You're saying Mcilrath is guaranteed to spend all of next season in Hartford.

I just dont like what I see from Staal. It's 50/50 as far as I'm concerned. Sad as it may be, the Rangers need to make a decision. There's an opportunity to acquire arguably the best NCAA defensive prospect for peanuts, and sign a d-man 10x better than Staal (Suter), while trading Staal for additional assets like scoring forwards.

IMO Staal should be the odd man out.

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03-20-2012, 09:33 AM
  #125
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The Rangers SHOULD NOT move Staal, Girardi, McDonagh or MDZ. They should also hold onto Bickel and Sauer if at all possible.

Erixon and McIlrath are still works in progress but both look promising. Just give it time. Let the situation develop naturally. There will be injuries where the young guys can get some playing time slowly. The Rangers are not the Islanders who need to throw 20-21 year old kids back on defense and hope they float.

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