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Start of game line brawl

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03-20-2012, 09:17 AM
  #1
Bleed Blue 24 7
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Start of game line brawl

I personally love this and I am shocked on how some people are embarrassed and disgusted by the fighting. I am not saying it should happen but it this happened @ the start of every game the NHL's rating would soar through the roof! How can someone hate this fighting is entertaining!!

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03-20-2012, 09:20 AM
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Hockey fans just love to complain, especially on the main boards.

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03-20-2012, 09:26 AM
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njdevil26
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Hey, don't want to start anything obviously. Just looking for your opinion on your coach.

Tortorella introduced this idea this season on Dec 20th by starting your fourth line.
Last night, the Devils started their fourth. Torts obliged and put his out. Then he has Bickel taking the faceoff for a better fight matchup.

Then he's on the bench screaming bloody murder at DeBoer. Why? Does he realize that the players on the ice talk and agree to fight before it happens? Carter said in an interview last night that Bickell showed up in the faceoff circle and asked him to fight.

Also, if Torts was really upset with DeBoer starting his fourth line, he could have chosen to throw his first out there, skate circles around guys like Boulton and Janssen and get a goal on the first shift. I really don't get the screaming and infant tirades your coach throws sometimes.

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03-20-2012, 09:29 AM
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Some staged fights have real purpose. Some don't. This one was a rare hybrid. Before the game there's basically no "real" point of a fight (bad blood btwn guys, incidents from previous game, etc), but once DeBoer sent his line-up in Torts got the boys up as if Gaborik was mugged by Carcillo again.

It was awesome, and anybody saying this is an overall bad thing for the sports is wrong IMO. Everyone got pumped, my buddies I was with who like basketball got pumped. You win more than you lose here.

Oh, and Bickel=Monster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
Hey, don't want to start anything obviously. Just looking for your opinion on your coach.

Tortorella introduced this idea this season on Dec 20th by starting your fourth line.
Last night, the Devils started their fourth. Torts obliged and put his out. Then he has Bickel taking the faceoff for a better fight matchup.

Then he's on the bench screaming bloody murder at DeBoer. Why? Does he realize that the players on the ice talk and agree to fight before it happens? Carter said in an interview last night that Bickell showed up in the faceoff circle and asked him to fight.

Also, if Torts was really upset with DeBoer starting his fourth line, he could have chosen to throw his first out there, skate circles around guys like Boulton and Janssen and get a goal on the first shift. I really don't get the screaming and infant tirades your coach throws sometimes.

Yea you're right, Torts did that in December, then DeBoer responded with the game at the garden a few weeks back. For whatever reason, Torts wasn't happy he did it again. Maybe he felt they each had a shot to start the game off like that, and didn't want the thing to roll that way again with three weeks left. Nobody knows.

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03-20-2012, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrmessier011 View Post
Some staged fights have real purpose. Some don't. This one was a rare hybrid. Before the game there's basically no "real" point of a fight (bad blood btwn guys, incidents from previous game, etc), but once DeBoer sent his line-up in Torts got the boys up as if Gaborik was mugged by Carcillo again.

It was awesome, and anybody saying this is an overall bad thing for the sports is wrong IMO. Everyone got pumped, my buddies I was with who like basketball got pumped. You win more than you lose here.

Oh, and Bickel=Monster.




Yea you're right, Torts did that in December, then DeBoer responded with the game at the garden a few weeks back. For whatever reason, Torts wasn't happy he did it again. Maybe he felt they each had a shot to start the game off like that, and didn't want the thing to roll that way again with three weeks left. Nobody knows.

The difference between your "goons" and our "goons" is that yours actually contribute offensively on an NHL level. Carter has three goals this year. None of them were while playing on the fourth line. Boulton has zero points in 48 games and Janssen has 1 assist in 46 games. It's embarrassing how useless they are. At least Zajac and Bernier will replace both of them by the end of the week I think.

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03-20-2012, 09:41 AM
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Anyone have a you tube of the fight to post?

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03-20-2012, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
Anyone have a you tube of the fight to post?
http://www.hockeyfights.com/

Scroll down you can watch them all.

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03-20-2012, 09:42 AM
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Torts was probably pissed that you started your 4th line to possibly try to goon it up against our scorers.

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03-20-2012, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
Torts was probably pissed that you started your 4th line to possibly try to goon it up against our scorers.
That doesn't make sense. Torts has the last change.

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03-20-2012, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
Torts was probably pissed that you started your 4th line to possibly try to goon it up against our scorers.
Not many people know the procedure, but the away team submits their lineup first for the home coach to look at before submitting his own. If this was in New Jersey and Torts submits Gaborik, Stepan, and whoever to start the game, there's no way the Devils are putting out Boulton and Janssen.

So no, DeBoer did not start the fourth line to "goon it up" against your scorers.

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03-20-2012, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
So no, DeBoer did not start the fourth line to "goon it up" against your scorers.
Well he didn't put them on to score goals, did he.

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03-20-2012, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
Well he didn't put them on to score goals, did he.
He put them on so Torts would start his fourth line, which he did, to see which team could win some momentum in the beginning. This has happened twice already this season before last night... once initiated by Torts so I don't see what you're getting at.

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03-20-2012, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
Not many people know the procedure, but the away team submits their lineup first for the home coach to look at before submitting his own. If this was in New Jersey and Torts submits Gaborik, Stepan, and whoever to start the game, there's no way the Devils are putting out Boulton and Janssen.

So no, DeBoer did not start the fourth line to "goon it up" against your scorers.
I don't think last change applies to opening faceoff. The coach already knows who he wants to start. Starting lineup is given in the locker room before they come out.

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03-20-2012, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
He put them on, so Torts would start his fourth line, which he did, to see which team could win some momentum in the beginning. This has happened twice already this season before last night... once initiated by Torts so I don't see what you're getting at.
Why would the Devils want to get the MSG crowd going? Our 4th line can actually play, so it's not unusual for Torts to start them.

He's pissed for a reason, not just shouting because he feels like it.

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03-20-2012, 09:51 AM
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I thought it was great. These teams hate each other and it makes me laugh.

Torts is classic flipping out and putting Bickel at C. The team came out and played very well

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03-20-2012, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Everyday Im Hagelin View Post
I don't think last change applies to opening faceoff. The coach already knows who he wants to start. Starting lineup is given in the locker room before they come out.
No, he is right.

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Rule 7 - Starting Line-up
7.1 Starting Line-up - Prior to the start of the game, at the request of the Referee, the Manager or Coach of the visiting team is required to name the starting line-up to the Referee or Official Scorer.
Prior to the start of the game, the Manager or Coach of the home team, having been advised by the Official Scorer the names of the starting line-up of the visiting team, shall name the starting line-up of the home team. This information shall be conveyed by the Official Scorer to the Coach of the visiting team.
No change in the starting line-up of either team as given to the Official Scorer, or in the playing line-up on the ice, unless reviewed and approved by the Referee prior to the start of the game.

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03-20-2012, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everyday Im Hagelin View Post
I don't think last change applies to opening faceoff. The coach already knows who he wants to start. Starting lineup is given in the locker room before they come out.
The last change very much applies to the opening faceoff. The visiting coach has a certain time in the day he has to submit his lineup... the home coach gets to look at it and then submit his own.

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03-20-2012, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
Why would the Devils want to get the MSG crowd going? Our 4th line can actually play, so it's not unusual for Torts to start them.

He's pissed for a reason, not just shouting because he feels like it.
It's not about the crowd... it's about the players. If Boulton and Janssen wreck their opponents and win the fights, the Devils would get some positive momentum and a step up early in the game. That's obviously not how it happened... the fights were pretty even I'd say... but that's the objective. Again, Tortorella did it in New Jersey on Dec 20th. So as the away coach he had that objective as well.

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03-20-2012, 09:56 AM
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Could it be possible that the Devil's gave their starting lineup before the game then changed it right before opening faceoff? Why else would Torts be so pissed then have Bickel, who was dressed as a Dman I believe, take the draw?

I don't think Torts would have been that pissed if he knew the Devil's starting lineup before they even hit the ice.

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03-20-2012, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
Could it be possible that the Devil's gave their starting lineup before the game then changed it right before opening faceoff? Why else would Torts be so pissed then have Bickel, who was dressed as a Dman I believe, take the draw?

I don't think Torts would have been that pissed if he knew the Devil's starting lineup before they even hit the ice.
Check the rule 99Probs posted. They wouldn't be allowed to change their lineup without presenting this to the referees and getting their approval. Torts would have been notified. DeBoer admitted in all post-game interviews that he intentionally started the fourth line. So there was no change.

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03-20-2012, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
Check the rule 99Probs posted. They wouldn't be allowed to change their lineup without presenting this to the referees and getting their approval. Torts would have been notified. DeBoer admitted in all post-game interviews that he intentionally started the fourth line. So there was no change.
So whats to say DeBoer didn't do that? Just playing devils advocate. He could have submitted it right when they went on the ice or right before.

I just don't see Torts being that pissed if he knew well ahead of time the lineup the Devils were starting.

That and it looked like the Rangers were starting the Richards line then they took them off.

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03-20-2012, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
It's not about the crowd... it's about the players. If Boulton and Janssen wreck their opponents and win the fights, the Devils would get some positive momentum and a step up early in the game. That's obviously not how it happened... the fights were pretty even I'd say... but that's the objective. Again, Tortorella did it in New Jersey on Dec 20th. So as the away coach he had that objective as well.
The crowd does have a massive effect on momentum though, an away team can only get momentum if they as you say wreck the opponents. If the fights are even the crowd gets going, so really it's not worth going for it because there's a much smaller chance of gaining momentum.

I'm not saying what I think DeBoer's intentions were, I'm just thinking of reasons why Torts would be mad and what he could have thought. IMO Torts thinking DeBoer was trying to goon it up isn't a very unreasonable conclusion to come to, regardless of how wrong Torts may have been.

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03-20-2012, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
So whats to say DeBoer didn't do that? Just playing devils advocate. He could have submitted it right when they went on the ice or right before.

I just don't see Torts being that pissed if he knew well ahead of time the lineup the Devils were starting.

That and it looked like the Rangers were starting the Richards line then they took them off.
Yeah I understand that's a possibility... but DeBoer said his intention from the start was the start the fourth line. That PLUS even if at the absolute last second DeBoer changed his mind, Torts would be given every opportunity to put any line he wanted to on the ice.

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03-20-2012, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
Yeah I understand that's a possibility... but DeBoer said his intention from the start was the start the fourth line. That PLUS even if at the absolute last second DeBoer changed his mind, Torts would be given every opportunity to put any line he wanted to on the ice.
And it looks like from the video the Rangers were going to start the Richards line, Torts pulled them off and told Bickel ro take the draw when he was pencilled in to be the sixth Dman.

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03-20-2012, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
The crowd does have a massive effect on momentum though, an away team can only get momentum if they as you say wreck the opponents. If the fights are even the crowd gets going, so really it's not worth going for it because there's a much smaller chance of gaining momentum.

I'm not saying what I think DeBoer's intentions were, I'm just thinking of reasons why Torts would be mad and what he could have thought. IMO Torts thinking DeBoer was trying to goon it up isn't a very unreasonable conclusion to come to, regardless of how wrong Torts may have been.
Regardless of DeBoer's intentions... it was a dumb move. Parise-Henrique-Kovalchuk should start EVERY away game. All Devil fans agree that Boulton and Janssen are useless and we never want to see them on the ice.

I think my point is simply that this is the third time this season that this has happened and Torts chooses now to flip out.

DeBo definitely didn't make the right decision though. There was a 50/50 chance that this would backfire and it pretty much did. The Devils have had problems scoring goals... but also their compete level has been lacking lately. They've played the Flyers, Pens, and Rangers and couldn't match the other team's intensity. Maybe THAT'S what DeBoer was trying to fix? Didn't work though lol.

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