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Caps @ Wings Mar 19, 2012 at 7:30 PM ET

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03-20-2012, 10:14 AM
  #501
txpd
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
From what the London Knights fans were saying, Dale ran a full blown near run-and-gun offensive system.
which is funny, because in his very first presser he said "I don't believe in run and gun"

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03-20-2012, 10:15 AM
  #502
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
If you, dear Millhaus, are under the faintest glimmer of an impression of a hope that a Chris Osgood level talent is going to lead the Washington Capitals to a Stanley Cup then you are in Txpd Land.
Not what I said. You said he isn't up to the standards of a cup winning goaltender. I pointed out that Chris Osgood was a cup winning goaltender.

Right now a combination of the 5 greatest goaltenders of all time wouldn't be a good bet to backstop this team to a cup. So saying Neuvirth isn't good enough isn't saying anything at all IMO.

The better the rest of the team is the lesser the goaltender can be and visa versa. If what we have been seeing this season is the rest of the team then I 100% agree Neuvirth is not good enough but again nobody else would be either so that is a moot point IMO.

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03-20-2012, 10:17 AM
  #503
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
which is funny, because in his very first presser he said "I don't believe in run and gun"
He was just trying to throw off the rest of the league. Hunter is a shrewd one you know...

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03-20-2012, 10:19 AM
  #504
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I'm also not sure if GMGM is the one who told Dale to run this particular system. I think he definitely did tell Bruce to switch to a defensive system last year. But I don't think it would make sense for Dale, a pretty raw coach, to do something he might not be comfortable.

I'm also not going call what Dale is running right now a defensive system. Sure we don't open it up offensively like we did under Bruce a few years ago, but that doesn't mean we run a defensive system. At least they have a structure now and the players are trying to play within that structure. They are still not there and are very inconsistent in executing the game plan.

I'd be okay with bringing Dale back. A full off season, adding players that fit his plan and lets see what he can do.

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03-20-2012, 10:19 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
which is funny, because in his very first presser he said "I don't believe in run and gun"
Perhaps he meant not at the NHL level.

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03-20-2012, 10:20 AM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Not what I said. You said he isn't up to the standards of a cup winning goaltender. I pointed out that Chris Osgood was a cup winning goaltender.

Be careful to not project the future by the exceptional cases of the past.

Mundus vult decipi.

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03-20-2012, 10:22 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
I'm also not going call what Dale is running right now a defensive system.
So the Caps are playing the oh so rare offensive version of the 1-2-2 trap...?

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03-20-2012, 10:25 AM
  #508
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
So the Caps are playing the oh so rare offensive version of the 1-2-2 trap...?
They don't play the trap exclusively. They pick and choose when to do it. They definitely go into the trap when they have the lead late into the third.

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03-20-2012, 10:30 AM
  #509
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Ugh. once again, a frustrating team.

I don't know whether I enjoyed the blow them out or barely try Caps or the current incarnation.

Whatever it is, if this team can catch fire for 3-4 weeks, it might be interesting. The problem is still whether that happens.

Ovechkin has broad shoulders. He's certainly been better.

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03-20-2012, 10:31 AM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
Be careful to not project the future by the exceptional cases of the past.

Mundus vult decipi.
What is deceiving about pointing out that a goaltender of Osgood's quality backstopped a team to a cup?

You said Neuvirth is not a goaltender capable of winning a cup. I believe he has the ability to be at least as good as Osgood. Can the rest of the Caps be as good as the rest of Osgood's Wings? I guess we will see but they aren't anywhere close now.

I'm not saying they will but I am saying they can. If you believe the Caps are always going to be a team that requires world class goaltending to be able to win a cup then I'm on board with your Neuvirth is not good enough argument. But there definitely have been cups won with much less than world class goaltenders in net, Osgood being one example and Niemi and even more recent one.

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03-20-2012, 10:37 AM
  #511
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
They don't play the trap exclusively. They pick and choose when to do it. They definitely go into the trap when they have the lead late into the third.
They don't pick and choose. When they get down big early they scrap it and attack. Other than that they are trapping 95% of the time.

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03-20-2012, 10:44 AM
  #512
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The bi-polarity is confounding. There are nights where we come out passive, seemingly directed to be patient and opportunistic -- and the end result is that we end up playing on our heels instead of on our toes. That's what Chicago looked like Sunday, but there have been a lot of other games where the team's collective mind-set is: don't be aggressive; don't make the costly first mistake. But the end result seems to be that the ice is tilted, we have a breakdown, and then we're behind.

And then there's last night where we come out pedal to the metal, play on our toes, and overpower the opposition. And we've shown bursts of that in games where we've had to abandon the passivity in order to come back.

I get that the Caps need to be capable of playing a defense-first/prevent style of play -- that tool has to be in the toolbox. It's just that we don't seem to succeed very often when we start the game in that mode.

Conversely, we can't just revert to trading chances with the opposition, because (i) we lack a key weapon that helped that style succeed (Nick); (ii) it's a very risky style because, well, you give up too many chances and (iii) our goalies aren't good enough.

For this team to succeed, it has to be aggressive and opportunistic. Push the play, but be smart about it.

And this is what they've been trying to teach Ovie all year - don't just mindlessly floor it all the time because it leads to too many odd-man chances the other way. And, Ovie, being somewhat of a manic guy reads that as they want me to slow down - when really what we want is for him to be smart about when he floors it.

If he now starts to figure this out, and realizes that no one wants to take away hyper-drive Ovie, we just want it used a bit more judiciously -- then we become dangerous. Like last night.

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03-20-2012, 10:49 AM
  #513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
They don't pick and choose. When they get down big early they scrap it and attack. Other than that they are trapping 95% of the time.
I think we play different at home and on the road, for starters. They change it up by period depending on the score and success.

I have seen us open games being very aggressive. A few games, I see defensemen very aggressive in the offensive zone. And generally more so of late, Dmen are active.

Even if you are correct in saying we sit back 95% of the time, we are changing it up, it is not static as you seem to imply.

I think it may bode well for us. We will not be as easily predictable in a 7 game series as we have been in recent years. Where the opposition coaches seemed to have no adjustments to make at all. They knew we would put our 1 out on their 1. No surprises, no changeups, just fastballs. It was too easy.

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03-20-2012, 10:58 AM
  #514
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Originally Posted by marcel snapshot View Post

And this is what they've been trying to teach Ovie all year - don't just mindlessly floor it all the time because it leads to too many odd-man chances the other way. And, Ovie, being somewhat of a manic guy reads that as they want me to slow down - when really what we want is for him to be smart about when he floors it.

If he now starts to figure this out, and realizes that no one wants to take away hyper-drive Ovie, we just want it used a bit more judiciously -- then we become dangerous. Like last night.

Great point.

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03-20-2012, 11:09 AM
  #515
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Good stuff Marcel - following your lead, there was a great play last night by Ovi, maybe late 2nd 3rd period. Where we had a lead, two forwards in deep. He was high on the LW half wall as the puck dribbled slowly his way. A Detroit player had easy possession if Ovi went after it or not, Ovi stayed back and was back for a 3 on 3. He made a steal just inside our blue. He came down RW and was alone, the classic 1 on 4, probably a change by us. He didn't shoot into the shins. He spun back held it, and then tried to dump it. He fanned, but the change as made, it was a play you don't see often from him.

Perhaps the changing of him was on full display from being petal to metal drive towards the net at full speed to try the full power need the hat need the hat wrister every GD time, to.... playing smart.

I don't think people realize how much getting him to play smarter changes our team. It is an easy to see work in progress to anyone watching such as yourself. The discussions of coaching start with Ovi, is he being well coached or not. Ignore the team in transition as he adapts. He needed to adapt and it will be ugly until he does. The league is playing him differently, our team is different, he is different. It takes time.


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03-20-2012, 11:18 AM
  #516
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
They don't play the trap exclusively. They pick and choose when to do it. They definitely go into the trap when they have the lead late into the third.
actually, they trap. they forecheck when they have numbers. when they dont have a clear advantage they pull back and trap. in the defensive zone they play a collapsing man to man. meaning that they dont pressure the puck much on the perimeter which is why they allow so much zone time against.

as a general rule they dont change the game plan when they fall behind.

i dont think they play differently on the road either. the matchups are different and that changes how they play to a degree.

i was struck last night by how much the forward group looks like a non-playoff team. keith aucoin in the top 6. matt hendricks and matty perreault on the 3rd line.

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03-20-2012, 11:28 AM
  #517
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Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
Ovechkin plays like a dog. His fitness, enthusiasm and general effort level have been inconsistent at best the last 2 years.

I like the job Hunter is doing. He doesn't seem to have his pets and is forcing players to be responsible, thereby exposing the selfish from the leaders.
I completely agree. I like that he isn't afraid to bench players to get a message across.

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03-20-2012, 11:59 AM
  #518
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Txpd land? really?
I'm taking my kids there this summer to ride the Flashmobile.

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03-20-2012, 12:09 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by IafrateOvie34 View Post
I completely agree. I like that he isn't afraid to bench players to get a message across.
with mixed results. most players on the team have suffered a benching or a scratch. schultz is better for it. semin is smarter for it. on the other side of that coin the team plays safe and the previous explosion that its high end players are known for has been shut off.

i am not sure how i feel about it. semin is a better/smarter team player now. he also has almost completely abandoned his elite skill set.

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03-20-2012, 12:11 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
Ovechkin is on pace for 60 points. Spare me the talk of a recent hot streak. He's the most overpaid player in the league with that production.

I dk wtf is wrong with Carlson. He was excellent last year.
Ero, the only thing I'd say on Ovie is that, if he's going to turn it around it has to start somewhere.

He can't undo his lax performance over the past couple of seasons, but that doesn't preclude him from finding his game going forward.

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03-20-2012, 12:11 PM
  #521
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Actually, we don't trap exclusively. Ramping up the aggressiveness makes them far less likely to do it. What do you call it Tex when we aggressively forecheck, trapping?

And there are varying degrees of it when they do it. Like on the PP late yesterday.

No matter how you try to spin it, teams don't know what we are going to do, at least not to the extent they did in previous regimes. How do we quantify or name the varying aggressiveness we see. I havent seen it changed mid period but definitely between periods.

Players and thus teams do play different at home vs on the road. Coaches are forced to coach differently as well. The road game is often simplified. You withstand that early attack and try and take the fans out of it.

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03-20-2012, 12:13 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by HSHS View Post
I'm taking my kids there this summer to ride the Flashmobile.
new flashmobile is carrying 15 now. brand new car that we got to the track for the first time weekend before last.

if the caps make the playoffs, there will be a weagle on the hood for our next race at savannah on april 13-15


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03-20-2012, 12:14 PM
  #523
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
with mixed results. most players on the team have suffered a benching or a scratch. schultz is better for it. semin is smarter for it. on the other side of that coin the team plays safe and the previous explosion that its high end players are known for has been shut off.

i am not sure how i feel about it. semin is a better/smarter team player now. he also has almost completely abandoned his elite skill set.
So far, on Semin, I am chalking it up to growing pains. If he doesn't put it all together very soon, then yeah, I'll be wrong.

But his last few games, he's seemed to be trying to be more offensively productive and as a result has fumbled and turned the puck over more.

When he focuses on D, those mistakes seem to go away.

It's the happy medium that he needs to find, and I think, we are watching him as he tries to do that. FWIW, he's not been taking stick penalties even in these last few games which have been more lackluster.

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03-20-2012, 12:16 PM
  #524
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Also, I posted this in another thread, but thought I'd share it here. An interesting take on one of the most criticized players on this board:

Everyone here is very down on Ward and his $$, but yesterday, JapersRink had this to say. Just thought I'd share:

An assist against the Isles and a plus-three week is about as good as it gets these days for Ward, who hasn't been on the ice for an opposing goal of any kind since February 12 (yet inexplicably continues to not kill penalties and toils away on the fourth line).

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03-20-2012, 12:20 PM
  #525
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Does anyone have a stat on Ovis minute per point production compared to previous years.

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