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What snipers should we seek BESIDES Parise?

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03-20-2012, 12:11 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
Parise is not a sniper....he's just plain not. Do you consider Ryan Callahan a sniper/ They are almost the exact same player.
Goal scorer? Sniper? What difference does it make? Parise can bury the puck off the rush, off the pass, from in front etc.

Callahan is not Parise. Come on.

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03-20-2012, 12:29 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Goal scorer? Sniper? What difference does it make? Parise can bury the puck off the rush, off the pass, from in front etc.

Callahan is not Parise. Come on.
whats the difference between a goal scorer and a sniper? Jeff Carter is a sniper. Jaromir Jagr is a goal scorer. He can score any where, any how, any way you want on the ice. Carter fires the puck and picks corners. Parise is almost the exact same player as Ryan Callahan, except he's got better offensive instincts/hands..

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03-20-2012, 12:44 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
whats the difference between a goal scorer and a sniper? Jeff Carter is a sniper. Jaromir Jagr is a goal scorer. He can score any where, any how, any way you want on the ice. Carter fires the puck and picks corners. Parise is almost the exact same player as Ryan Callahan, except he's got better offensive instincts/hands..
I believe what German Way of War means is that it is important is that we get someone who can score and it does not really matter how he puts the puck in the net.

I agree.

Parise can get the job done and it isn't that important how or where he scores his goals from. It is more or less irrelevant to get wrapped up in what type of player you classify him as.

Also - the way you describe Parise as Callahan with better offensive instincts/hands nearly sounds like the perfect hockey player


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03-20-2012, 12:55 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Young defensemen on good contracts are even more of a premium.

There is no guarantee that Yakupov can become the player that Stepan is.

Forget about the other things that are wrong with this, but you are presuming that the young Ranger forwards do not take any steps forward. Between them and the young defensemen, the Rangers offense imporves organically.
"Young defensemen on good contracts are even more of a premium."
Respectfully disagree. Snipers who can bury the puck and ultimate best even the likes of Hank are more valuable, especially for playoffs.

"There is no guarantee that Yakupov can become the player that Stepan is."
Correct, no guarantee. However it is a reasonable premise with reasonable likelihood to succeed. This is not a guy who who was mid first round or later, needs two seasons minimum to develop. This is THE top guy, and he is believed to be both goal scorer and sniper.

"Forget about the other things that are wrong with this, but you are presuming that the young Ranger forwards do not take any steps forward. Between them and the young defensemen, the Rangers offense imporves organically."
I'm grateful for improvement to date and future progress.
However, if we don't want to be patient and wait a full 2 years (and I understand some complain about a window for Hank and Gaborik and Richards in their primes), then if we want to accelerate the process we need to take the active initiative to deal to improve. We are already good enough at every phase of the game except sniper/power play. But with Pens solid there, we must improve there to compete. It is as simple as that.

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03-20-2012, 01:46 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
Parise is not a sniper....he's just plain not. Do you consider Ryan Callahan a sniper/ They are almost the exact same player.
Wow. We are in looney land. Parise is a great player with off the charts touch around the net. Cally is our captain and I won't say anything bad about him, but he's not Zach Parise; not close.

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03-20-2012, 02:14 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
whats the difference between a goal scorer and a sniper? Jeff Carter is a sniper. Jaromir Jagr is a goal scorer. He can score any where, any how, any way you want on the ice. Carter fires the puck and picks corners. Parise is almost the exact same player as Ryan Callahan, except he's got better offensive instincts/hands..
Semantics. Jagr scored hundreds of goals off one timers and wrist shots, hitting corners off the rush.

Parise isn't high maintenance. Take away his injury season and he's been one of the leagues best goal scorers. He can score using his accurate shot.

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03-20-2012, 02:29 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Respectfully disagree. Snipers who can bury the puck and ultimate best even the likes of Hank are more valuable, especially for playoffs.
Defense is what wins championships. Snipers get shut down.
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Correct, no guarantee. However it is a reasonable premise with reasonable likelihood to succeed.
not even close. How many busts have there been in top-5? You do not trade away a very young promisng player that has shown he can do it for a possibility. Just as teh Isles how that worked out all those years.
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However, if we don't want to be patient and wait a full 2 years (and I understand some complain about a window for Hank and Gaborik and Richards in their primes), then if we want to accelerate the process we need to take the active initiative to deal to improve. We are already good enough at every phase of the game except sniper/power play. But with Pens solid there, we must improve there to compete. It is as simple as that.
For one thing, I have no problem being patient. The window for Henke has more than two years left. To beat the Pens, you need goaltending and defense. You are not going to outscore them.

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03-20-2012, 02:44 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Defense is what wins championships. Snipers get shut down.

not even close. How many busts have there been in top-5? You do not trade away a very young promisng player that has shown he can do it for a possibility. Just as teh Isles how that worked out all those years.

For one thing, I have no problem being patient. The window for Henke has more than two years left. To beat the Pens, you need goaltending and defense. You are not going to outscore them.
But the Pens' offense is so potent that you can't always shut them down: they're going to score their goals. And when that happens you need an offense that can answer back.

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03-20-2012, 02:47 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
But the Pens' offense is so potent that you can't always shut them down: they're going to score their goals. And when that happens you need an offense that can answer back.
You're not going to win a shootout game with the Pens. You need to contain and limit them and then take advantage of your own opportunities (another reason this team's weak PP is such a bugaboo).

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03-20-2012, 02:57 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
You're not going to win a shootout game with the Pens. You need to contain and limit them and then take advantage of your own opportunities (another reason this team's weak PP is such a bugaboo).
Not saying the Rangers should open things up, just saying that in the scenario that we contain them well, but they still are able to break through (which is likely given the skilled forwards they have)- we need an offense that can generate goals. If we completely crap the bed defensively, then no we can't beat them.

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03-20-2012, 03:07 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
If we completely crap the bed defensively, then no we can't beat them.
If that happens, you are not going to beat them no matter how your offense is.

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03-20-2012, 03:37 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
You're not going to win a shootout game with the Pens. You need to contain and limit them and then take advantage of your own opportunities (another reason this team's weak PP is such a bugaboo).
but when those opportunites are coming for the rangers, they are not always being handled by players that can put the puck in the net consistently. We simply need more offensive firepower going forward.

Let it come from within with Krieder, but hopefully they bring in another goal scorer via FA.

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03-20-2012, 04:55 PM
  #163
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but when those opportunites are coming for the rangers, they are not always being handled by players that can put the puck in the net consistently. We simply need more offensive firepower going forward.

Let it come from within with Krieder, but hopefully they bring in another goal scorer via FA.
Agreed. Also, let's leave no stone unturned.
We got lucky last year with Erixon, may get another break this year.

However, we can't just FA and luck our way out of this.
We need to make 1 or 2 careful trades to get what we need, even if we have to overpay, just not crazy ridiculous overpay.

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03-20-2012, 05:30 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
but when those opportunites are coming for the rangers, they are not always being handled by players that can put the puck in the net consistently. We simply need more offensive firepower going forward.

Let it come from within with Krieder, but hopefully they bring in another goal scorer via FA.
I think a poor PP can be solved by re-working the system. I don't think you need elite offensive fire power to have an above average power play. And I think the pieces are here to have such a power play.

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03-20-2012, 05:43 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I think a poor PP can be solved by re-working the system. I don't think you need elite offensive fire power to have an above average power play. And I think the pieces are here to have such a power play.
I think so too. The decision making on the PP leaves a lot to be desired. For instance, last night there was a PP (might have been their last one of the game) where Richards, I think, was point blank on Marty's right and rather than shoot and hunt for a possible rebound, he tries getting the puck past two Devils and over to DZ. The play was broken up and the puck was taken right back out of the zone. They always seem to go one pass too many. The only time they shoot is when the angle is bad. And then they miss the net and puck goes whizzing around the boards and out of the zone. I think there needs to be more movement, more speed, and more shots. IMO of course.

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03-20-2012, 06:03 PM
  #166
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looking at the roster the oldest F is Feds and oldest D are Eminger and Woywitka and I think most fans agree to let them all walk as UFAs

man this team should be up and coming for a while

http://rangers.nhl.com/club/roster.h...ge&type=roster

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03-20-2012, 07:11 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
Parise is not a sniper....he's just plain not. Do you consider Ryan Callahan a sniper/ They are almost the exact same player.


I love Callahan, one of the best Captains and hardest workers in the game, but almost the same as Parise? Ridiculous. Parise has two 80+point seasons under his belt whereas Cally is just going to break 60 for the 1st time in his career this season. Parise would fit in like a glove into this team. Hard worker, scores goals, great defensively, etc. This is a classic case of homerism gone bad.

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03-20-2012, 07:13 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
whats the difference between a goal scorer and a sniper? Jeff Carter is a sniper. Jaromir Jagr is a goal scorer. He can score any where, any how, any way you want on the ice. Carter fires the puck and picks corners. Parise is almost the exact same player as Ryan Callahan, except he's got better offensive instincts/hands..
You're grasping at straws now, man.

Who the hell cares how Player A scores goals? As long as they are consistently doing so throughout there career, which Parise has done. He's a goal scorer, sniper, or whatever you want to call it.

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03-20-2012, 07:38 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowtron View Post
I think so too. The decision making on the PP leaves a lot to be desired. For instance, last night there was a PP (might have been their last one of the game) where Richards, I think, was point blank on Marty's right and rather than shoot and hunt for a possible rebound, he tries getting the puck past two Devils and over to DZ. The play was broken up and the puck was taken right back out of the zone. They always seem to go one pass too many. The only time they shoot is when the angle is bad. And then they miss the net and puck goes whizzing around the boards and out of the zone. I think there needs to be more movement, more speed, and more shots. IMO of course.
Was actually MDZ trying to get the puck to Richards, but I hear you. No idea why he didn't shoot.

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03-20-2012, 08:28 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Shadowtron View Post
I think so too. The decision making on the PP leaves a lot to be desired. For instance, last night there was a PP (might have been their last one of the game) where Richards, I think, was point blank on Marty's right and rather than shoot and hunt for a possible rebound, he tries getting the puck past two Devils and over to DZ. The play was broken up and the puck was taken right back out of the zone. They always seem to go one pass too many. The only time they shoot is when the angle is bad. And then they miss the net and puck goes whizzing around the boards and out of the zone. I think there needs to be more movement, more speed, and more shots. IMO of course.
Agree, especially as to bold and the underline seems more rule than exception.
However, let's be honest.
Girardi is a great defender. Like Rod Seiling, his shot from the point is lacking.

However, while I'd welcome a Shea Weber of course, we need a sniper first to improve our G production and not just a gifted D at the point. We need both, but let's get the offense rolling with one guy first.

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03-20-2012, 08:40 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Defense is what wins championships. Snipers get shut down.

not even close. How many busts have there been in top-5? You do not trade away a very young promisng player that has shown he can do it for a possibility. Just as teh Isles how that worked out all those years.

For one thing, I have no problem being patient. The window for Henke has more than two years left. To beat the Pens, you need goaltending and defense. You are not going to outscore them.
"Defense is what wins championships. Snipers get shut down."
This is a romantic fantasy, one that goes back to the '69 Knicks.

No one thing is certain to bring a championship.
All offense - no defense = not likely to work
All defense - no offense = not likely to work
Even balance all by itself will not do the job if we don't have enough horses.
But balance helps a lot.
This team is very good, especially for its limitations/lack of depth.
But it is clearly not balanced.
So in conclusion, nothing overemphasized, but balance not D

And snipers do not always get shut down.
The prior year we faced the Caps, we didn't lose because of Hank or our D.
We lost cause guys like Matt Gilroy chipped in and few others!


"not even close. How many busts have there been in top-5? You do not trade away a very young promisng player that has shown he can do it for a possibility. Just as teh Isles how that worked out all those years."
The more risk, the less you pay, the more certainty the more you pay.
Yes, you trade that promising player IF there is enough reasonable basis to expect a profitable reward; no risk, no reward, and reward is necessary for progress and not being stagnant.

I did hope to get an established player out of Edmonton, but that's another story with its own mixed bag.
If we can't find an alternate sniper --- which is the point of this thread --- we may need to take a chance on first overall if the package is reasonable. Reasonable is not what you feel like paying. Reasonable is what you can live with paying the price to get what you want.


"For one thing, I have no problem being patient. The window for Henke has more than two years left. To beat the Pens, you need goaltending and defense. You are not going to outscore them."
We tried goaltending and defense alone vs. Pens, it does not work.

We need balance.
Let's find a sniper.

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03-20-2012, 09:03 PM
  #172
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It's not personal. It's business. He's got the biggest cap hit with the longest term of all the defensemen. MDZ and Macdonagh are up for new contracts soon. The team did fine without him.

And calling Staal "great" is Rangers fan hyperbole. I never bought into it. He's had very strong showings and has the defensive ability to develop into a Norris-caliber defender. But he hasnt dont that yet.

Staal was drafted in 2005. Seven years later, he's received one 5th place Norris vote in five NHL seasons (counting this season).

Sorry, but I have a hard time calling him "great". I trade him now while he has some value.
Leave all the homer responses out of this. Lets here what everybody thinks his worth is and what they could realisticly receive in return. it's hypothetical anyway.

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03-20-2012, 09:19 PM
  #173
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Agree, especially as to bold and the underline seems more rule than exception.
However, let's be honest.
Girardi is a great defender. Like Rod Seiling, his shot from the point is lacking.

However, while I'd welcome a Shea Weber of course, we need a sniper first to improve our G production and not just a gifted D at the point. We need both, but let's get the offense rolling with one guy first.
A Shea Weber and Bobby Ryan are exactly what would finish off this team. But who do you lose to trades to acquire those two? With the advent of Radulov coming back to Nashville, that is probably enough evidence for Weber and Suter to stick around anyway. They like it there anyway.

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03-20-2012, 09:31 PM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
"Defense is what wins championships. Snipers get shut down."
This is a romantic fantasy, one that goes back to the '69 Knicks.

No one thing is certain to bring a championship.
All offense - no defense = not likely to work
All defense - no offense = not likely to work
Even balance all by itself will not do the job if we don't have enough horses.
But balance helps a lot.
This team is very good, especially for its limitations/lack of depth.
But it is clearly not balanced.
So in conclusion, nothing overemphasized, but balance not D

And snipers do not always get shut down.
The prior year we faced the Caps, we didn't lose because of Hank or our D.
We lost cause guys like Matt Gilroy chipped in and few others!


"not even close. How many busts have there been in top-5? You do not trade away a very young promisng player that has shown he can do it for a possibility. Just as teh Isles how that worked out all those years."
The more risk, the less you pay, the more certainty the more you pay.
Yes, you trade that promising player IF there is enough reasonable basis to expect a profitable reward; no risk, no reward, and reward is necessary for progress and not being stagnant.

I did hope to get an established player out of Edmonton, but that's another story with its own mixed bag.
If we can't find an alternate sniper --- which is the point of this thread --- we may need to take a chance on first overall if the package is reasonable. Reasonable is not what you feel like paying. Reasonable is what you can live with paying the price to get what you want.


"For one thing, I have no problem being patient. The window for Henke has more than two years left. To beat the Pens, you need goaltending and defense. You are not going to outscore them."
We tried goaltending and defense alone vs. Pens, it does not work.

We need balance.
Let's find a sniper.
This... we need a few more offensive guys, preferrably one more sniper

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03-21-2012, 08:03 AM
  #175
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[QUOTE=bernmeister;46432661This is a romantic fantasy, one that goes back to the '69 Knicks.
[/QUOTE]
Only happens year-in/year-out in practially any sport. The romantic notions that you ahve are that somehow by depleting the defense and getting one player, we will somehow be able to win a run and gun game with the Pens.
Quote:
And snipers do not always get shut down.
Only every year, in practiacally every playoff series. Not always, but certainly more than enough times to be noticeable.
Quote:
Yes, you trade that promising player IF there is enough reasonable basis to expect a profitable reward; no risk, no reward, and reward is necessary for progress and not being stagnant.
What is yoru reasonable basis? Being a man amongst boys amongst kids? So too was Kvasha.
Quote:
Reasonable is what you can live with paying the price to get what you want.
Reasonable is not dismantling the team for an unproven kid.
Quote:
We tried goaltending and defense alone vs. Pens, it does not work.
When have we tried it af full strength and with players that take steps forward in their development?
Quote:
We need balance.
Let's find a sniper.
What we need to do is not panic and allow for the kids to mature. And we do not need to start to recreate the wheel on what is working.

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