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Old
03-21-2012, 12:41 PM
  #101
FlyersFan61290
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Just me but I would give Grossmann up to 3.5 mil per and Carle 4.5 mil per. I don't think signing Grossmann at that price will be a problem but Carle may not be willing to take a cut like that. If not let him walk and sign Kubina or call up Gus to replace the offense

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03-21-2012, 01:26 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Just me but I would give Grossmann up to 3.5 mil per and Carle 4.5 mil per. I don't think signing Grossmann at that price will be a problem but Carle may not be willing to take a cut like that. If not let him walk and sign Kubina or call up Gus to replace the offense
I think Carle gets trade at the draft stupid to let him walk for nothing we should b able to get a pick and prospect or 2 picks for him.

Resign Grossmann and try to sign Kubina ..

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03-21-2012, 02:19 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
I was shocked Carle didn't get shipped out at the deadline. We need to keep Grossmann and let Carle walk. He'll want too much $$$.
I'm not at all. After what happened in 2010, where we essentially rotated 4 defensemen for the whole play offs (who all kicked ass for us), Holmgren has seemed eager to get some rentals to have depth there for the play offs. Homer is always in win now mode, and Carle is a serviceable 2nd pairing guy at worst. Now with Mez out in addition to Pronger and Kubina, it seems like the smart move.

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Old
03-21-2012, 02:56 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
I'm not at all. After what happened in 2010, where we essentially rotated 4 defensemen for the whole play offs (who all kicked ass for us), Holmgren has seemed eager to get some rentals to have depth there for the play offs. Homer is always in win now mode, and Carle is a serviceable 2nd pairing guy at worst. Now with Mez out in addition to Pronger and Kubina, it seems like the smart move.
Kubina is back now, but I agree with you. Freak injury to Meszaros made it worthwhile.

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03-21-2012, 03:33 PM
  #105
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With Mez's injury, I just don't see how Carle fits in next year. Mez's value will be much lower than normal, and Carle can probably get close to 5 on the open market. Try to flip his rights or let him walk, resign Grossman and Kubina, reevaluate Pronger and, assuming he's finished, make a run for a legit number one guy.

It's so easy

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Old
03-28-2012, 01:37 PM
  #106
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Just caught this on Twitter. http://www.defendingbigd.com/2012/3/...ren-nieuwendyk

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Old
03-28-2012, 02:45 PM
  #107
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That whole post is just one bitter *****fest.

Grossman has played like a top pairing defenseman on the flyers. Not a bottom one. Maybe he should check his facts about Bryz before and after Grossman got here.

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Old
03-28-2012, 02:48 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
That whole post is just one bitter *****fest.

Grossman has played like a top pairing defenseman on the flyers. Not a bottom one. Maybe he should check his facts about Bryz before and after Grossman got here.
The Gorssmann - Coburn pairing is loads of awesome and fun to watch, but it really has very little to do with Bryz's turn around. Is it better for Bryz to have a better pairing? Yeah, but it's Bryz himself who changed significantly, not the defense.

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03-28-2012, 02:54 PM
  #109
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That whole article, other than way to stat heavy, basically said their defense as a whole got worse, but the offense got significantly better, so they are winning by scoring more than they did before. So you replace a defensive D with an offensive D and scoring gets better, but D gets worse, I'm shocked

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Old
03-28-2012, 03:21 PM
  #110
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Stats mean a lot, but I hate when they're used to try and prove 100% of a point. You can't overlook the "eye test." Grossmann has clearly played well here, better than a bottom pairing guy. He's brought a lot out of Coburn too, that CANNOT go overlooked. I haven't looked at it, but I would assume that the Flyers played statistically higher scoring teams in the time since that trade. The Pacific isn't exactly an offensive juggernaut this year.

That article is similar to the one Dustin Leed wrote about the similarities of Ryan Suter and Matt Carle....statistical similarities. Are they close with their stats? Sure. But the eye test is important. How catastrophic are Carle's giveaways compared to Suter's? What is their all-around play like? etc. etc.

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Old
03-28-2012, 03:36 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
The Gorssmann - Coburn pairing is loads of awesome and fun to watch, but it really has very little to do with Bryz's turn around. Is it better for Bryz to have a better pairing? Yeah, but it's Bryz himself who changed significantly, not the defense.
It's no coincidence that with the acquisitions of Grossmann and Kubina, Bryz's play drastically got better and better. He finally had a defense that didn't give up on him or the play. Remember he was very good at the very start of the season with Pronger too

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03-28-2012, 03:43 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Stats mean a lot, but I hate when they're used to try and prove 100% of a point. You can't overlook the "eye test." Grossmann has clearly played well here, better than a bottom pairing guy. He's brought a lot out of Coburn too, that CANNOT go overlooked. I haven't looked at it, but I would assume that the Flyers played statistically higher scoring teams in the time since that trade. The Pacific isn't exactly an offensive juggernaut this year.

That article is similar to the one Dustin Leed wrote about the similarities of Ryan Suter and Matt Carle....statistical similarities. Are they close with their stats? Sure. But the eye test is important. How catastrophic are Carle's giveaways compared to Suter's? What is their all-around play like? etc. etc.
it's already been determined that Carle > Suter

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Old
03-28-2012, 03:48 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
It's no coincidence that with the acquisitions of Grossmann and Kubina, Bryz's play drastically got better and better. He finally had a defense that didn't give up on him or the play. Remember he was very good at the very start of the season with Pronger too
You're severely discrediting Bryzgalov's turnaround.

He was sheltered under Pronger + our defense, but when he was no longer sheltered he got destroyed up until March really. Without Pronger, Richards, and Carter, we couldn't shelter him like we sheltered Leighton. Hence he sucked ass until he himself made the commitment to get better.

Our defense has really been no different. Laviolette has focused it a little more. The defense attack less, but the basic strategy is there. They still pinch and still play a pretty aggressive style. We only focused it defensively a little more because we had to throw so many rookies in the lineup.

On top of that, most of the time Bryz has been at his best is when we've been at our worst defensively. Timonen, Meszaros, and Kubina have missed most of that. Throw out Pronger, Richards, and Carter on top of that, and you have a disaster waiting to happen.

Our defense right now isn't really that changed since the defense post-Pronger injury. Once everyone is healthy it should be, but it hasn't even been healthy.


If not for Bryz stepping up when we did, those injuries may have cost us the playoffs.

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Old
03-28-2012, 04:29 PM
  #114
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It hasn't changed much since the injury? What are you talking about.

Carle - Gustaffson
Coburn - Timonen
Lilja - Mezaros

does not equal

Carle - Timonen
Coburn - Grossman
Kubina - Gustaffson

and Timonen is out currently.

For starters, there are two different players on the team. Not to mention that Carle has benefited massively from playing with Timonen, and Coburn has found some unreal chemistry with Grossman.

Also, The team has played entirely different since the trade deadline. That "not attacking as much" is a slight under-exaggeration. We can actually close teams out now, we don't go flat out in getting the puck into the offensive zone, we hold the puck a little more, and the D pinch far less than at the start of the year.

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Old
03-28-2012, 05:02 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
It hasn't changed much since the injury? What are you talking about.
I mean our defense has not gotten better since then. It's only gotten worse or come back to par. It hasn't been as good as it was when Pronger was in.

Pronger - Carle
Timonen - Coburn
Meszaros - Lilja

(when Bryzgalov started the season)

became...

Timonen - Coburn
Meszaros - Carle
Bourdon - Marshall - etc

(when Bryzgalov was sucking)

became...

Coburn - Grossmann
Carle - Bourdon
Gustafsson - Manning

(when Bryzgalov was amazing)

became...

Timonen - Carle
Coburn - Grossmann
Gustafsson (Kubina) - Lilja

will hopefully become...

Timonen - Carle
Coburn - Grossmann
Kubina - Meszaros

Which I would say is on par with what we started the season with; a healthy Pronger.

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Old
03-30-2012, 11:39 AM
  #116
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Grossmann has 62 hits and 47 blocked shots in 20 games since joining the Flyers. He's playing out of his mind.

Extrapolated over 77 games, that would expand to 239 hits (11th in the NHL) and 181 blocked shots (5th).

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Old
03-30-2012, 11:42 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Grossmann has 62 hits and 47 blocked shots in 20 games since joining the Flyers. He's playing out of his mind.

Extrapolated over 77 games, that would expand to 239 hits (11th in the NHL) and 181 blocked shots (5th).
Just what the doctor -- erm, owner -- ordered.

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Old
03-30-2012, 11:44 AM
  #118
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L Schenn for JVR would have been better....

Oh and Kadri for Shelley's gloves as well...

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Old
03-30-2012, 12:13 PM
  #119
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The way he has played for us I have to believe Homer wants to resign him. It's just a tough situation with Pronger and not knowing the available cap space going into the next season. If they resign him I believe it will be around the draft or right after they release the cap numbers in the summer.

He has been everything we wanted. Physical, blocking shots, occasional assist, and just steady as a rock on the back-end. I just hope he doesn't price himself out of a good situation here with us. He is getting great ice time, and has an opportunity to play top 4 minutes with Coburn. I have a feeling Homer knows what he is doing when it comes to re-upping Grossmann

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Old
03-31-2012, 06:06 AM
  #120
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I don't really follow Dallas, but I'm curious to know why he "didn't work" in their system. I just find it surprising that he was disappointing enough for them to trade, when he's now doing so well on an upper-echelon team.

Their loss, I guess...
I think it was more a situation where they had quite a lot of NHL capable defenders, Grossmann was on a out-going contract and as such the most logical guy to trade. Also, as far as fan reactions go, I think part of it is that they wanted more from him than we do. We were looking to add a big, physical guy that could clear the crease and be a solid defensive dman. Having been that guy for their team for a few years, they were probably waiting for him to show something more than that. Similar to how we are *****ing about Coburn and Carle "only" being top 4 defenders and never taking the next step.

The Grossmann-Coburn pairing has been great though, we finally have a shutdown pairing.

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Old
03-31-2012, 08:51 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
I think it was more a situation where they had quite a lot of NHL capable defenders, Grossmann was on a out-going contract and as such the most logical guy to trade. Also, as far as fan reactions go, I think part of it is that they wanted more from him than we do. We were looking to add a big, physical guy that could clear the crease and be a solid defensive dman. Having been that guy for their team for a few years, they were probably waiting for him to show something more than that. Similar to how we are *****ing about Coburn and Carle "only" being top 4 defenders and never taking the next step.

The Grossmann-Coburn pairing has been great though, we finally have a shutdown pairing.
This is the best Coburn has looked since the Hatcher days. I think we finally found the D partner that brings out the best in him. Now if only we can sign Grossmann to an extension. With the way he is playing he might just get close to 4 a season which could be hard to match....

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Old
03-31-2012, 10:36 AM
  #122
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L Schenn for JVR would have been better....

Oh and Kadri for Shelley's gloves as well...
As much as I bust on JVR. Luke looks like crap this year. That would be way overpayment in my eyes. Maybe its the team he is playing for. But to me he looks out of shape and slow of foot.I know you are kidding but the toronto meatheads want JVR plus for Luke That's not going to happen. I hope that when JVR gets back with the team next season he comes back with a vengeance.

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03-31-2012, 10:58 AM
  #123
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This is the best Coburn has looked since the Hatcher days. I think we finally found the D partner that brings out the best in him. Now if only we can sign Grossmann to an extension. With the way he is playing he might just get close to 4 a season which could be hard to match....
Notice how Coburn gets extra nasty when he has someone 6'3 next time him? Lol but he has been in beast mode with Grossman and I hope they sign him next season.

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Old
03-31-2012, 11:06 AM
  #124
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The perfect annual salary for Grossmann: $3,144,144.

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Old
03-31-2012, 04:28 PM
  #125
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The way he has played for us I have to believe Homer wants to resign him. It's just a tough situation with Pronger and not knowing the available cap space going into the next season. If they resign him I believe it will be around the draft or right after they release the cap numbers in the summer.

He has been everything we wanted. Physical, blocking shots, occasional assist, and just steady as a rock on the back-end. I just hope he doesn't price himself out of a good situation here with us. He is getting great ice time, and has an opportunity to play top 4 minutes with Coburn. I have a feeling Homer knows what he is doing when it comes to re-upping Grossmann

If you prioritize Grossmann over Carle, it's not so tough anymore. The ability to let Carle walk gives them some breathing room.

I think Gus can replace a good deal of Carle's puck-moving role.

UFA/Pronger - Timonen (Great 1A/1B pairing)
Grossmann - Coburn (Shutdown pairing)
Meszaros - Gustafsson (Very high quality 3rd pairing)
Lilja


Last edited by Damaged Goods: 03-31-2012 at 04:33 PM.
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