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Old
03-21-2012, 12:33 PM
  #26
Grabowaffle84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ometheus View Post


I'm not sure I understand the point you wanted to get across. Can you elaborate on each of your three sentences?
Exactly the response I expected from someone that lives in a perfect world.

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03-21-2012, 12:33 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Ometheus View Post
We have a lot to show for the last four years of 'retooling'. One look at our Marlies, and the general age of our club will paint a better picture than early 2008.

And yes, I believe that when our club is looking hopeless and defeated, we don't need to step on their heads while they're drowning. I think that we can be men, swallow our pride, and help pull them out of the water.

We don't reward them winning with support; it would seem like an empty gesture then. They reward our support with winning. They owe it to themselves to win, not us.

What you're tired of is losing. And your reaction is only pushing for more of them.
True, but any GM in place of Burke could have had a better Marlies teams after 4 years of top ten draft picks, and there is nobody down there that is the answer to this team up here. Believe me, I know what you're saying. I've cheered hard for this team amongst the boos last year, looked in disgust as the fans threw the waffles. But I've been cheering for a losing team for about 9 years now, why haven't they pulled themselves out of the water already? How much longer do I have to cheer and cheer before this club doesn't look hopeless and defeated? It's unfortunate it's the players this criticism is directed at, but it's the most direct way to get a message to management.

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03-21-2012, 12:36 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Grabowaffle84 View Post
Exactly the response I expected from someone that lives in a perfect world.
I was sincere in my request. I wanted to hear your opinion clearly, and you throw my interest in my face.

That only makes you look poor.

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Old
03-21-2012, 12:36 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by blacknite001 View Post
When Burke took over fans wanted us to build a core group of guys from drafting, like how the Pens did it,
No, you wanted him to build that way! Don't generalize your beliefs and expectations to that of the entire fanbase.

I'm a fan and wanted him to build through whatever avenue possible.

Why do you all have to summarize your beliefs as that of the general fanbase!

I would say that judging by many polls that those of you being very vocal actually make up a small minority of the fans!

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03-21-2012, 12:40 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by haayward View Post
True, but any GM in place of Burke could have had a better Marlies teams after 4 years of top ten draft picks, and there is nobody down there that is the answer to this team up here. Believe me, I know what you're saying. I've cheered hard for this team amongst the boos last year, looked in disgust as the fans threw the waffles. But I've been cheering for a losing team for about 9 years now, why haven't they pulled themselves out of the water already? How much longer do I have to cheer and cheer before this club doesn't look hopeless and defeated? It's unfortunate it's the players this criticism is directed at, but it's the most direct way to get a message to management.
I agree with your sentiment and understand your beliefs entirely.

However, we cannot change what has been. I do not claim that cheering our team will result in absolute success; only that doing anything else will pull us further from it.

If we want to boo and hate, the only teams and people we should be doing it to are our rivals and their fans. Not our own team and fellow fans.

Defiant until the end.

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Old
03-21-2012, 12:43 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by haayward View Post
True, but any GM in place of Burke could have had a better Marlies teams after 4 years of top ten draft picks, and there is nobody down there that is the answer to this team up here. Believe me, I know what you're saying. I've cheered hard for this team amongst the boos last year, looked in disgust as the fans threw the waffles. But I've been cheering for a losing team for about 9 years now, why haven't they pulled themselves out of the water already? How much longer do I have to cheer and cheer before this club doesn't look hopeless and defeated? It's unfortunate it's the players this criticism is directed at, but it's the most direct way to get a message to management.
That is a very good Marlies team! I'm extremely happy with how they're doing.

Theoretically they could have had Reimer, Gardiner, Frattin and Ashton down there but they're here. Wait until those last three go down for the playoffs!

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03-21-2012, 12:44 PM
  #32
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We went from being a great place to play to being too negative.

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Old
03-21-2012, 12:44 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
Are you suggesting that how the Anti-Burke movement is acting is similiar to how Burke is acting.

I'm suggesting that you shoudln't behave any differently and let the season ride out and hear if he does apologize and explain himself before criticizing him for not doing so!
But if Burke is not criticized how does he knows if fans have a problem? That is, at the end of the season how do they voice displeasure (there are no off season games). The problem is their is a lack of trust in Burke. That is why people are talking out.

Some fans think Burke is all hot air, who isn't held accountable for his results, and in general don't trust him.

The relationship is dysfunctional and Burke is doing himself no favours.

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03-21-2012, 12:48 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by number72 View Post
But if Burke is not criticized how does he knows if fans have a problem? That is, at the end of the season how do they voice displeasure (there are no off season games). The problem is their is a lack of trust in Burke. That is why people are talking out.

Some fans think Burke is all hot air, who isn't held accountable for his results, and in general don't trust him.

The relationship is dysfunctional and Burke is doing himself no favours.
I don't believe his focus will ever be on the fans having a problem. Our problem derives from the team having a problem, and therefore is only tangent to the situation.

His attention is on the Maple Leafs, and he knows that there is a problem there; far better than us. No need to deny this by referencing his press speeches. No sane manager would ever admit publicly to there being a problem, or saying his team is not play-off calibre, and calling out his players. Bad business.

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03-21-2012, 12:50 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
There is ZERO point reasoning with people that feel there were "broken promises" because first you have to convince them there were no promises??

There were estimations and expectations but rebuilds/retools aren't exact sciences and don't have exact steps to follow. If peices aren't available then you have to do other things.

People have to get over the notion that this was going to be a quick and painless short rebuild! That every trade was a win and every signing was a success. It was going to get far worse before it got better!

Granted Burke said it shoudln't take 5 years but guess what, it is? You don;t fire your contractor cause he takes longer than he thought! Half thetime it's because your house was in worse shape!

Burke shouldn't have said it was going to be quicker but whatever, only in Toronto shoudl a GM be fired over a soundbyte!
This is not a soundbyte

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/standings/

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03-21-2012, 12:50 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Ometheus View Post
I agree with your sentiment and understand your beliefs entirely.

However, we cannot change what has been. I do not claim that cheering our team will result in absolute success; only that doing anything else will pull us further from it.

If we want to boo and hate, the only teams and people we should be doing it to are our rivals and their fans. Not our own team and fellow fans.

Defiant until the end.
You're right that's true. So might as well look forward to future, and stop trying to patch up our messes with quick fix solutions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
That is a very good Marlies team! I'm extremely happy with how they're doing.

Theoretically they could have had Reimer, Gardiner, Frattin and Ashton down there but they're here. Wait until those last three go down for the playoffs!
Honestly one of the best things Burke has done is build that Marlies team, ignoring all the other crap that went on on the Leafs. I'm sincerely glad he didn't call up the kids in the middle of this mess of a collapse for all of us to peg as the saviours and fall short, instead letting them develop and go on a good cup run this year to give all our prospects confidence, and help develop a winning culture in this organization.

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Old
03-21-2012, 12:53 PM
  #37
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The easy answer to this is:

Why the **** should we?

We pay these people our hard earned salaries. Each player, coach, GM and assitant GM makes near million or millions. They deserve no pity because "oh they couldn't put it together."

Toronto fans have every right to be angry. This team was being torn down and everyone was ready to accept it, Burke comes in and then generalizes the fanbase saying that they don't like boring hockey (But the Pat Burns era is put on a pedestal by Leaf fans) that we don't need a boring traditional rebuild (but we all wanted it) and that in 3 years he could turn the team into a playoff contender.

He failed, the owners failed, the players failed. The owners should have played a bigger role, either have Tenanbaum or someone be the head of that conglomerate and tell Burke what they expect. This is a very loud fanbase that demands a lot, having that one voice where it matters needed to happen and it didn't.

Ontop of that people are right to start calling out Burke. It's been 4 years, probablly going to be 5 years under him with no elite talent outside Kessel with no visible outlook of this team. He isn't going to trade Kessel or do what he needs to shift this roster into what it must be to get the team on the right path. So yeah fans should heckle him.

Players don't deserve any sympathy either. Boo them, heckle them, cheer them who cares? They are being supported, as well as much of the league, by Toronto Maple Leaf fan's dollars. We deserve a championship team. Absolutely nothing can dispel that. We're paying millions upon millions to MLSE and they aren't being assertive nor is Burke and just doing what needs to be done. It's bad business but ultimately, and I know I'm turning into that fan, they aren't willing to upset anything becuase they know fans will keep coming. That pressure in wanting to succeed or pride for your local team isn't present. You don't get that when you're owned by corporations, this isn't like Mark Cuban or Eugene Melnyk coming out and bragging about their team, wanting to get better. They want to appease Leaf fans, not see their product do great. And that's why we're here today. Because no one is jumping ship, no one is stopping themselves from going to the games or buying the LeafsTV packages or new jerseys so MLSE can sit back and say "yeah Burke we believe in you keep going." And the only way its going to get across is from unbelievable pressure from fans or media. But coordination in either A) staying away from Leaf games and devoiding MLSE of your money or B) Chanting "Good Job Burkie" at the ACC probably won't happen.

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Old
03-21-2012, 12:53 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by number72 View Post
But if Burke is not criticized how does he knows if fans have a problem? That is, at the end of the season how do they voice displeasure (there are no off season games). The problem is their is a lack of trust in Burke. That is why people are talking out.

Some fans think Burke is all hot air, who isn't held accountable for his results, and in general don't trust him.

The relationship is dysfunctional and Burke is doing himself no favours.
Burke doesn't give a **** if you have a problem. Burke's not here to appease the minority of whiney Leaf fans. He's here to appease the majority of Leafs fans who don't have a problem.

The problem isn't there is a lack of trust it is there is a group of presumptious fans that feel they're owed an apology becasue they got their hopes up or expected more.

The relationship between fans and Burke is fine, the relationship between fans and fans is dysfunctional!

Burke knows full-well what the problems are and sure as hell doesn't care to hear them from you!

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Old
03-21-2012, 12:54 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
This is not a soundbyte

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/standings/
Thought I said go away!

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Old
03-21-2012, 12:56 PM
  #40
Ometheus
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Originally Posted by Edgeworth View Post
The easy answer to this is:

Why the **** should we?

We pay these people our hard earned salaries. Each player, coach, GM and assitant GM makes near million or millions. They deserve no pity because "oh they couldn't put it together."

Toronto fans have every right to be angry. This team was being torn down and everyone was ready to accept it, Burke comes in and then generalizes the fanbase saying that they don't like boring hockey (But the Pat Burns era is put on a pedestal by Leaf fans) that we don't need a boring traditional rebuild (but we all wanted it) and that in 3 years he could turn the team into a playoff contender.

He failed, the owners failed, the players failed. The owners should have played a bigger role, either have Tenanbaum or someone be the head of that conglomerate and tell Burke what they expect. This is a very loud fanbase that demands a lot, having that one voice where it matters needed to happen and it didn't.

Ontop of that people are right to start calling out Burke. It's been 4 years, probablly going to be 5 years under him with no elite talent outside Kessel with no visible outlook of this team. He isn't going to trade Kessel or do what he needs to shift this roster into what it must be to get the team on the right path. So yeah fans should heckle him.

Players don't deserve any sympathy either. Boo them, heckle them, cheer them who cares? They are being supported, as well as much of the league, by Toronto Maple Leaf fan's dollars. We deserve a championship team. Absolutely nothing can dispel that. We're paying millions upon millions to MLSE and they aren't being assertive nor is Burke and just doing what needs to be done. It's bad business but ultimately, and I know I'm turning into that fan, they aren't willing to upset anything becuase they know fans will keep coming. That pressure in wanting to succeed or pride for your local team isn't present. You don't get that when you're owned by corporations, this isn't like Mark Cuban or Eugene Melnyk coming out and bragging about their team, wanting to get better. They want to appease Leaf fans, not see their product do great. And that's why we're here today. Because no one is jumping ship, no one is stopping themselves from going to the games or buying the LeafsTV packages or new jerseys so MLSE can sit back and say "yeah Burke we believe in you keep going." And the only way its going to get across is from unbelievable pressure from fans or media. But coordination in either A) staying away from Leaf games and devoiding MLSE of your money or B) Chanting "Good Job Burkie" at the ACC probably won't happen.
You need a base and support to build something. You need a mob to tear it down.

You're welcome to your own opinion, though this is mob mentality, not fan mentality.

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Old
03-21-2012, 12:59 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
Burke doesn't give a **** if you have a problem. Burke's not here to appease the minority of whiney Leaf fans. He's here to appease the majority of Leafs fans who don't have a problem.

The problem isn't there is a lack of trust it is there is a group of presumptious fans that feel they're owed an apology becasue they got their hopes up or expected more.

The relationship between fans and Burke is fine, the relationship between fans and fans is dysfunctional!

Burke knows full-well what the problems are and sure as hell doesn't care to hear them from you!
30% of the fans on this board alone voted to have him fired. That is a significant percentage that is rising. Just read these boards and you will see that many fans are very close to looking for change and 30 percent have already stated they want it now.

That's what happens when the GM is the face of the club and he publicly states how he builds his team and what his intentions are. Burke didn't say things like be patient. He said he has no patience himself. He was very specific with his impatience and didn't mince words. So why should the fans be patient when the GM has stated isn't and that he has done it before so therefore will do it again?

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Old
03-21-2012, 01:03 PM
  #42
Ometheus
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
30% of the fans on this board alone voted to have him fired. That is a significant percentage that is rising. Just read these boards and you will see that many fans are very close to looking for change and 30 percent have already stated they want it now.

That's what happens when the GM is the face of the club and he publicly states how he builds his team and what his intentions are. Burke didn't say things like be patient. He said he has no patience himself. He was very specific with his impatience and didn't mince words. So why should the fans be patient when the GM has stated isn't and that he has done it before so therefore will do it again?
Because I am my own person, and a fan, and will act in the manner in which I believe will have the most supportive impact on my team.

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Old
03-21-2012, 01:04 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Ometheus View Post
The Hypocrisy

I've noticed recently that the majority of the fanbase are blatant hypocrites.

I say this because the MLSE fanbase (from here on, referred to as 'we', because I am apart of all of you) call out the athletes-the competitors- for savagely crumbling when the going gets tough...

Yet we, as observers, cannot even bear to watch it without breaking down into a giant pile full of sadistic turmoil. We break apart and start bickering with each other, and lose both our drive and unity as a fanbase. Twist it into something harmful. We fracture like a window into broken glass.

Gather our skirts and take the hits like men

All the commentary--the media--the chants--the I-know-better-improvement rants; they have all only built up our sense of entitlement and suffocated both our team's confidence and drive.

In this atmosphere, we know for certain the media and commentary gets back to the players-- in one form or another. We're doing damage in our collapse as a fanbase. We have a habit to complain and hate for better or worse. Toughen up as fans, and try to cheer for better or worse.

If we want the team, the organization, to straighten their backs and fight with a fire, maybe we should light that fire under them--NO! not with our critic-hate-ridden complaints. With fiery support and the will to push the team forward.

How about when our champ is knocked down onto the mat, we not heckle and mock them for falling. We cheer and support them, encouraging them to stand back up and embolden their hearts.

A million people baying for blood can shrink you. A million people calling out support can motivate you to win.

That's what we want, right?

To win.
Burke has made his bed. Now he will lie in it. Burke has never missed a chance to take a poke at the media and fans. recently calling fans "sheep". I don't give a rats ass if these million dollar cry babies feelings are hurt.

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Old
03-21-2012, 01:04 PM
  #44
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Absolutely. After all, we fans are being paid millions of dollars to watch the game and cheer on the players, so anyone can see how hypocritical we are in. . . Oh wait, we're actually paying to watch them, and us doing so is what allows the players to earn their high salaries? Huh. . .

Seriously, I can see how anyone might think that it would be better if the fans didn't heckle the team and get on the players so much, but fans are in no way hypocritical by voicing their displeasure after paying hard earned money (and higher ticket prices than most, if not any other, teams) and spending their time to be treated to substandard play. It would even be one thing if fans got on the team after just a few losses. But this is 7 years without playoffs now, collapse after collapse after collapse, with this one now being relatively epic in proportion. Fans absolutely have the right to voice their displeasure, and while players are of course human, this kind of pressure and attention comes with the territory when you're playing at the highest level of hockey in the world and being paid hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars for it. They're certainly not being paid that much to just have fun out there, or need to be coddled and protected from the media, they're professionals that are paid to win so that the fans are happy and in turn, support the team financially.

And because I can see it coming, the argument of "if you don't like it, stop watching / being a fan" is nonsense in this case. First because just because people boo the team doesn't mean they've given up on them forever or want to stop watching games - they just want improvement, so that their favourite team can finally have some success. And second, without fans, the team couldn't exist period. The Leafs are just in an enviable position though in that no matter how bad they are, they always have tons of financial support. All in all, I am still a Leafs fan even if I'm disappointed at our past and present lack of success, and I think labeling fans of being "hypocrites" for wanting calling for improvement of a team that's perpetually disappointing is absolute ********.


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03-21-2012, 01:06 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Ometheus View Post
You need a base and support to build something. You need a mob to tear it down.

You're welcome to your own opinion, though this is mob mentality, not fan mentality.
What are you talking about? In 4 years Toronto could have had Kadri, Seguin, Hamilton, and most likely a top 5 pick or somethign more this year.

He picked a path and it he screwed up. He's not much better then JFJ in trading picks it seems. He hasn't improved the overall product that much just made it younger. I don't get why he is defended. This year was awful for him, very moves of note. He was stagnant and its hurt the organization big time.

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03-21-2012, 01:07 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Edgeworth View Post
The easy answer to this is:

Why the **** should we?

We pay these people our hard earned salaries. Each player, coach, GM and assitant GM makes near million or millions. They deserve no pity because "oh they couldn't put it together."

Toronto fans have every right to be angry. This team was being torn down and everyone was ready to accept it, Burke comes in and then generalizes the fanbase saying that they don't like boring hockey (But the Pat Burns era is put on a pedestal by Leaf fans) that we don't need a boring traditional rebuild (but we all wanted it) and that in 3 years he could turn the team into a playoff contender.

He failed, the owners failed, the players failed. The owners should have played a bigger role, either have Tenanbaum or someone be the head of that conglomerate and tell Burke what they expect. This is a very loud fanbase that demands a lot, having that one voice where it matters needed to happen and it didn't.

Ontop of that people are right to start calling out Burke. It's been 4 years, probablly going to be 5 years under him with no elite talent outside Kessel with no visible outlook of this team. He isn't going to trade Kessel or do what he needs to shift this roster into what it must be to get the team on the right path. So yeah fans should heckle him.

Players don't deserve any sympathy either. Boo them, heckle them, cheer them who cares? They are being supported, as well as much of the league, by Toronto Maple Leaf fan's dollars. We deserve a championship team. Absolutely nothing can dispel that. We're paying millions upon millions to MLSE and they aren't being assertive nor is Burke and just doing what needs to be done. It's bad business but ultimately, and I know I'm turning into that fan, they aren't willing to upset anything becuase they know fans will keep coming. That pressure in wanting to succeed or pride for your local team isn't present. You don't get that when you're owned by corporations, this isn't like Mark Cuban or Eugene Melnyk coming out and bragging about their team, wanting to get better. They want to appease Leaf fans, not see their product do great. And that's why we're here today. Because no one is jumping ship, no one is stopping themselves from going to the games or buying the LeafsTV packages or new jerseys so MLSE can sit back and say "yeah Burke we believe in you keep going." And the only way its going to get across is from unbelievable pressure from fans or media. But coordination in either A) staying away from Leaf games and devoiding MLSE of your money or B) Chanting "Good Job Burkie" at the ACC probably won't happen.
Sure boo and heckle and jeer and throw out personal attacks on players and coaches and GM's. Let their family members know also. You have that inalienable right because you bought tickets or merchandise or paid for Leafs TV.

Just don't act surprised when no one wants to work or play in Toronto.

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03-21-2012, 01:09 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
30% of the fans on this board alone voted to have him fired. That is a significant percentage that is rising. Just read these boards and you will see that many fans are very close to looking for change and 30 percent have already stated they want it now.

That's what happens when the GM is the face of the club and he publicly states how he builds his team and what his intentions are. Burke didn't say things like be patient. He said he has no patience himself. He was very specific with his impatience and didn't mince words. So why should the fans be patient when the GM has stated isn't and that he has done it before so therefore will do it again?
30% of this board??? Who cares!! I have come to learn taht this board does not reflect the reality of Leafs Nation. 30% on here, subtract anybody coming over from another team, trollls and anyone who just hates the Leafs which equals far less than 30%.

This is just a sounding board where more of the pissed off fans come rather than the happy ones!

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03-21-2012, 01:09 PM
  #48
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What are you talking about? In 4 years Toronto could have had Kadri, Seguin, Hamilton, and most likely a top 5 pick or somethign more this year.

He picked a path and it he screwed up. He's not much better then JFJ in trading picks it seems. He hasn't improved the overall product that much just made it younger. I don't get why he is defended. This year was awful for him, very moves of note. He was stagnant and its hurt the organization big time.
Leafs have 7 first round picks from the past 4 drafts plus Phill Kessel.

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03-21-2012, 01:13 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
Leafs have 7 first round picks from the past 4 drafts plus Phill Kessel.
Would you take Seguin and Hamilton or Kessel, Gardiner, Colborne? Pretty sure people would be ok with it.

Take away the 2008 draft and that number drops to 4.

Take away anything outside top 15 picks from the last 4 drafts Leafs have only 2.

Biggs and Ashton might be 3rd liners but not much more. Colborne might be a 2nd line center? Gardiner will probably be a 2nd pairing guy, Percy who knows?

I seriously don't get how he can be defended.

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03-21-2012, 01:20 PM
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Drew75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ometheus View Post
The Hypocrisy

I've noticed recently that the majority of the fanbase are blatant hypocrites.

I say this because the MLSE fanbase (from here on, referred to as 'we', because I am apart of all of you) call out the athletes-the competitors- for savagely crumbling when the going gets tough...

Yet we, as observers, cannot even bear to watch it without breaking down into a giant pile full of sadistic turmoil. We break apart and start bickering with each other, and lose both our drive and unity as a fanbase. Twist it into something harmful. We fracture like a window into broken glass.

Gather our skirts and take the hits like men

All the commentary--the media--the chants--the I-know-better-improvement rants; they have all only built up our sense of entitlement and suffocated both our team's confidence and drive.

In this atmosphere, we know for certain the media and commentary gets back to the players-- in one form or another. We're doing damage in our collapse as a fanbase. We have a habit to complain and hate for better or worse. Toughen up as fans, and try to cheer for better or worse.

If we want the team, the organization, to straighten their backs and fight with a fire, maybe we should light that fire under them--NO! not with our critic-hate-ridden complaints. With fiery support and the will to push the team forward.

How about when our champ is knocked down onto the mat, we not heckle and mock them for falling. We cheer and support them, encouraging them to stand back up and embolden their hearts.

A million people baying for blood can shrink you. A million people calling out support can motivate you to win.

That's what we want, right?

To win.


The problem is that so many of the LOUDER posters here are of the "what have you done for me lately", "the grass is always greener" and "with my 20/20 hindsight goggles on, I can clearly see..." variety.

I do have to applaud at the new and creative ways people can find to bring up the Kessel trade though.

Only here is a 24 year old in the top 4 of NHL scoring NOT elite. I'll admit he's not a "Franchise" player, but neither is ANY player we gave up for him - and there is no guarantee ANY of them will be. (Except, of course, "the grass is always greener" - so to some they are unable to look at it objectively)

Only here can people go on and on and on about tanking, top 5 picks, etc - yet still have no patience or understanding of what is a players natural development & learning curve. The same people wanting nothing but 1st round picks will then rip the latest player in his sophmore slump.

Only here do people want the GM Fired because he said he'd be back in a minute but really took 3.5 mutes to return.

Burke acquired assets - some have worked out, some haven't. None are on long term deals and are completely immovable. There have been a lot of good pieces put in place, and the timeline I've always had is next year - so far I can see a lot of reasons to think we'll end up being a consitently competitive team. There is a natural growth period when you build an organization from top to bottom, and while I'll be the first to admit I was hoping for playoffs this year and I'm sure Burke will be the first to admit it's taking longer than hoped - the signs of progress are there for anyone with half an ounce of hockey knowledge to see if they could only look past the one or two things they didn't like.

You can bump my posts any time you want. I see this team being in a position to make a significant jump in the standing next year. It's coming together - and while you can say the standings don't show that - I'd also say that if we won 3 or 4 games more out of 82, we'd be in the thick of the playoff hunt - that's the margin we're looking at. It's a small spectrum, but the pieces are being placed to make the jump from young and growing to competitive.

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