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Old
03-21-2012, 01:53 PM
  #151
Gene Parmesan
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Originally Posted by Eighth Fret View Post
I'm still upset about last night's game.

The anger and hurt have not subsided.
eh I was mad but I realized its just hockey and the last time I checked the Sharks aren't paying my bills so cheer up!

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Old
03-21-2012, 01:59 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by param View Post
Keep that part in mind...now look below



On one hand you're making a blanket statement about people who don't support Niemi by calling them "haters". Then on the other hand you're making comments that don't support Marleau. Now I'm curious to know what that makes you...




All this, "haters" BS is getting old. Recently it's been present more than ever with the debate of Antti Niemi's play. As soon as you start to deviate from the point and start calling folks "haters" you pretty much lose all credibility. The reason you lose credibility is because that's a classic example of becoming defensive. By attacking the folks instead of making any proper counterpoints, your stance becomes weightless. For some reason people feel that by debasing the other person into a nonsensical "hater" you sound more intelligent or superior. Well, you don't...so cut it out. All it does is instigate crap between posters and nothing meaningful ever comes out of it.

The team is where it's at because of the players, not because of any of the posters here...so wtf are we acting like dicks to each other for?! These last few GDT's have been especially unbearable! "You guys are just haters"..."some people don't understand hockey"..."lol your post makes no sense"..."where are the haters now, lol"...just cut this **** out already!!! I mean ****! Alright, just ****ing ****!


(Rapid Eye, a lot of this stuff wasn't specified to you, it was more of a general rant, don't take it personally)
point taken - I'm just suggesting that Niemi isn't the problem. And I'm not "hating" on Marleau. I like Marleau, and if this team was built differently I'd love to keep him. The point is we have a lot of money invested in him and I think we could/should use him towards rebuilding.

As far as his point go, thats absolutely besides the point (). But what ever. I'm not going to get into a discussion cuz I just dont have the time right now. Believe it or not, points aren't everything.

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Old
03-21-2012, 02:03 PM
  #153
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Goaltending is an issue, but a relatively minor one. There have been plenty of games this season where the boys just hung Nemo out to dry.

If were to assign blame, I'd say 60% skaters, 25% coaching, 15% goaltending.

You can complain about Nemo letting in the Penner goal all you want, but he's also stolen some games for us this season. He's not the real issue here. Listen to the skaters in interviews.. this steam still controls its destiny and yet sounds lifeless. Every one of them.

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03-21-2012, 02:06 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
eh I was mad but I realized its just hockey and the last time I checked the Sharks aren't paying my bills so cheer up!
Haha, thanks

I do feel silly for letting these games affect my mood so much.

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03-21-2012, 02:16 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Eighth Fret View Post
Goaltending is an issue, but a relatively minor one. There have been plenty of games this season where the boys just hung Nemo out to dry.

If were to assign blame, I'd say 60% skaters, 25% coaching, 15% goaltending.

You can complain about Nemo letting in the Penner goal all you want, but he's also stolen some games for us this season. He's not the real issue here. Listen to the skaters in interviews.. this steam still controls its destiny and yet sounds lifeless. Every one of them.
All goaltenders will "steal" you a game once in a while. Even a call up from the ECHL. That's kinda the only job of a goaltender, to stop pucks. It hasn't happened enough is the problem. Easy goals on a seemingly nightly basis deflate the team, especially when they have such a hard time scoring them themselves.

I'm not saying the team hasnt left Niemi out to hang each and every game at times. They certainly have. It doesnt have to be mutually exclusive though. The team sucking and niemi sucking can be two different things. It reminds me of arguments with my girlfriend where she isnt wrong about one thing because of something else I was wrong about


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Old
03-21-2012, 02:30 PM
  #156
Eighth Fret
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Originally Posted by MadmanSJ View Post
All goaltenders will "steal" you a game once in a while. Even a call up from the ECHL. That's kinda the only job of a goaltender, to stop pucks. It hasn't happened enough is the problem. Easy goals deflate the team, especially when they have such a hard time scoring them themselves.
What more do you want from the guy? He has a decent SV%, and has stolen us a few games. He can only do so much, and after that it's on the players to play D in front of him and give him goal support. The Sharks had what.. 20 shots on goal last night? The Kings outshot us almost 2 to 1. Pathetic.

Let's be real, he's not Tim Thomas or Pekka Rinne. I'd say he's more or less playing up to his talent level most nigths. You can't say the same for our skaters.

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03-21-2012, 02:52 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Eighth Fret View Post
Goaltending is an issue, but a relatively minor one. There have been plenty of games this season where the boys just hung Nemo out to dry.

If were to assign blame, I'd say 60% skaters, 25% coaching, 15% goaltending.

You can complain about Nemo letting in the Penner goal all you want, but he's also stolen some games for us this season. He's not the real issue here. Listen to the skaters in interviews.. this steam still controls its destiny and yet sounds lifeless. Every one of them.
Ignoring Niemi's average gaol stopping abilities. What takes Niemi from a halfway decent goaltender to a downright awful goaltender in my eyes are his turnovers and puck play. He is possibly the worst puck handling goalie I have ever seen and so much time is wasted in the defensive zone recovering from poor decisions by Niemi. He has absolutely no puck handling skills what so ever and is far below what should be acceptable by a NHL standard. His decisions on when to freeze pucks and when to kick pucks to the corner are also suspect. I've tried warming up to Niemi and have never been able too because he constantly makes bone headed mistakes. Add up his very average goal stopping abilities with his hockey IQ and his puck handling skills and you just have a bad goalie. Unfortunately it seems the coach only looks at goal stopping ability and ignores the other glaring weaknesses of his game.

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03-21-2012, 08:03 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by jwhitesj View Post
Ignoring Niemi's average gaol stopping abilities. What takes Niemi from a halfway decent goaltender to a downright awful goaltender in my eyes are his turnovers and puck play. He is possibly the worst puck handling goalie I have ever seen and so much time is wasted in the defensive zone recovering from poor decisions by Niemi. He has absolutely no puck handling skills what so ever and is far below what should be acceptable by a NHL standard. His decisions on when to freeze pucks and when to kick pucks to the corner are also suspect. I've tried warming up to Niemi and have never been able too because he constantly makes bone headed mistakes. Add up his very average goal stopping abilities with his hockey IQ and his puck handling skills and you just have a bad goalie. Unfortunately it seems the coach only looks at goal stopping ability and ignores the other glaring weaknesses of his game.
This, a lot. It's not to his credit that he keeps failing to freeze the puck and the other team gets extra shots on net.

But his goal stopping abilities are not really good either, he seems these days to get beat at least once a game by a mediocre or middling shot.

I can only think of one game he actually stole for us this year, the one vs. Chicago. He has played some solid ones, but he has lost us way too many to count, and that is unacceptable.

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03-21-2012, 08:21 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
We've gone just as far with Niemi as we have with Nabokov (WCF) . What are you talking about?
Yeah but instead of going 0-4 we went 1-4. Improvement!

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03-21-2012, 08:29 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
This, a lot. It's not to his credit that he keeps failing to freeze the puck and the other team gets extra shots on net.

But his goal stopping abilities are not really good either, he seems these days to get beat at least once a game by a mediocre or middling shot.

I can only think of one game he actually stole for us this year, the one vs. Chicago. He has played some solid ones, but he has lost us way too many to count, and that is unacceptable.
just 1 game?

how about his 32 save .970 save% against nashville just a week ago?

how about his 40 save .952 save% against detroit on nov 17th?

how about his 30 save .968 save% against dallas on nov 19th?

how about his 34 save shut out against chicago on nov 23rd?

how about his 37 save .938 save% against boston on oct 22?

how about his 28 save .964 save% against calgary on jan 17th

how about his 27 save .931 save% against vancouver on jan 2nd?

how about his 29 save .966 save% against the kings on dec 23rd?

how about his 29 save .935 save% against the kings on dec 7th?

then i would also add in his 26 save shut out against philly
also his 30 save shut out against columbus on jan 31st
also his 25 save shut out against calgary on jan 30th

he has also lost games where he has only allowed 1 goal.

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03-21-2012, 08:50 PM
  #161
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I never got to experience other Sharks fans when they didn't make the playoffs but this reminds me of Lord of the Flies.

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03-21-2012, 08:54 PM
  #162
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just 1 game?

how about his 32 save .970 save% against nashville just a week ago?

how about his 40 save .952 save% against detroit on nov 17th?

how about his 30 save .968 save% against dallas on nov 19th?

how about his 34 save shut out against chicago on nov 23rd?

how about his 37 save .938 save% against boston on oct 22?

how about his 28 save .964 save% against calgary on jan 17th

how about his 27 save .931 save% against vancouver on jan 2nd?

how about his 29 save .966 save% against the kings on dec 23rd?

how about his 29 save .935 save% against the kings on dec 7th?

then i would also add in his 26 save shut out against philly
also his 30 save shut out against columbus on jan 31st
also his 25 save shut out against calgary on jan 30th

he has also lost games where he has only allowed 1 goal.
All of those 3 months ago.

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03-21-2012, 08:56 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by KpopandHockey View Post
I never got to experience other Sharks fans when they didn't make the playoffs but this reminds me of Lord of the Flies.
It eventually will break down into the pro rathje and anti rathje sides.

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03-21-2012, 08:59 PM
  #164
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It eventually will break down into the pro rathje and anti rathje sides.
Can KM be piggy?

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03-21-2012, 09:02 PM
  #165
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Shane Doan gets 3 games.



Some good news for Sharks fans on Saturday.



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Old
03-21-2012, 09:03 PM
  #166
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Yeah but instead of going 0-4 we went 1-4. Improvement!
Nabby went 2-4 in 04'

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03-21-2012, 09:14 PM
  #167
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just 1 game?
It's on.

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how about his 32 save .970 save% against nashville just a week ago?
Outshot Nashville 35-33, outchanced Nashville 15-7 = Not a steal

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how about his 40 save .952 save% against detroit on nov 17th?
4-1 lead through 2 = score effects + 5-2 final + 2 PPGA = not a steal

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how about his 30 save .968 save% against dallas on nov 19th?
Outshot dallas 38-31; 4-0 lead in 3rd + 4-1 final = not a steal

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how about his 34 save shut out against chicago on nov 23rd?
This is the stolen game I referred to. He did steal this one.

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how about his 37 save .938 save% against boston on oct 22?
2-0 lead through 2, gave up 2 in 30 seconds in 3rd to end up even, luckily team put another past thomas and an EN = he almost freakin' gave this one away = definitely not a steal

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how about his 28 save .964 save% against calgary on jan 17th
Outshot CGY 31-28, outchanced CGY 18-12 = Not a steal

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how about his 27 save .931 save% against vancouver on jan 2nd?
Outshot VAN 35-29, outchanced VAN 15-13 = not a steal

I'm gonna stop here and not let you waste any more of my time in debunking your obviously cherrypicked and shallowly selected stats. You can't just pick a high sv% game and call that a steal. There are a lot of high sv% games in the league these days, and a lot of them against us.

The most telling part of your post is that there was nothing you could even cherrypick from mid-january through mid-march ... that is the reason our season is on the brink right now.

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03-21-2012, 09:14 PM
  #168
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Nabby went 2-4 in 04'
lol we were a quicker team that year.

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03-21-2012, 09:21 PM
  #169
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Nabby went 2-4 in 04'
Yeah well Nabby also hates eclairs....probably.

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03-21-2012, 09:28 PM
  #170
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2-0 lead through 2, gave up 2 in 30 seconds in 3rd to end up even, luckily team put another past thomas and an EN = he almost freakin' gave this one away = definitely not a steal
.
seriously? The 2nd goal was practically a 2 on 0. It's like the Nashville game where people were blaming Niemi for not stopping cross-creases...

How many games did Niemi actually cost the Sharks (games where they were dominating but he sucked?). The only one I remember that was all on him was the Tampa Bay game.

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03-21-2012, 09:38 PM
  #171
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It eventually will break down into the pro rathje and anti rathje sides.
< ------- Pro Rathje right here.

I loved how after he took a beating for Korolyuk at the hands of Chris Simon at the end of game 3, he came back in game 4 and scored the first goal of the game, shiner and all.

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03-21-2012, 09:39 PM
  #172
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seriously? The 2nd goal was practically a 2 on 0.
And the first was the result of Niemi mishandling the puck, so that already ended any thought of him stealing the game. Momentum swing was on him. Still, a goalie that steals a game makes the 2nd save. It was a sure goal, but stealing a game often means taking away sure goals.

Of course the team having been up 2-0 means that robbing Boston on that 2-on-0 STILL wouldn't qualify as stealing, unless the team didn't score the rest of the way -- which they did, plus they got the EN. It would be a tough case to make that any game that is won by 2 or more goals can qualify as a goalie theft.

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03-21-2012, 09:46 PM
  #173
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And the first was the result of Niemi mishandling the puck, so that already ended any thought of him stealing the game. Momentum swing was on him. Still, a goalie that steals a game makes the 2nd save. It was a sure goal, but stealing a game often means taking away sure goals.
there was no goalie in the past, present or even freaking future that was stopping that shot.

i know someone will post nabby's save in the playoffs against richards. but they are nothing alike. nabby had time to get across the ice with the pass coming across the crease, seguin when he received the pass was already in the crease, if niemi even cheated 1 bit on that play the puck would of been in the net from the player who passed it.

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03-21-2012, 09:46 PM
  #174
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And the first was the result of Niemi mishandling the puck, so that already ended any thought of him stealing the game. Momentum swing was on him. Still, a goalie that steals a game makes the 2nd save. It was a sure goal, but stealing a game often means taking away sure goals.
I could very well argue that he came up with a lot of key saves considering he stopped 37 shots. And you're kidding yourself with the whole "a goalie that steals a game makes the 2nd save". No goalie in the league could have stopped that goal.
If you used your criteria of what is considered a steal or not, I wouldn't be surprised if hardly any goaltenders "stole" games this year.

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03-21-2012, 09:57 PM
  #175
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I could very well argue that he came up with a lot of key saves considering he stopped 37 shots. And you're kidding yourself with the whole "a goalie that steals a game makes the 2nd save". No goalie in the league could have stopped that goal.
If you used your criteria of what is considered a steal or not, I wouldn't be surprised if hardly any goaltenders "stole" games this year.
Obviously it's not required for a steal, all that is required of a steal is for the goalie's team to get outplayed, yet win as the sole result of his efforts. However we have seen many goalies make unsavable saves, and we have seen many golden chances turn into near-misses because game-stealing goalies get into peoples' heads.

EDIT: That Seguin goal was 99.5% unsavable probably, however it is worth noting that it was physically possible for Niemi to have saved that. His glove hand, however, is nowhere near good enough to make a circus save there.



The puck is arriving at Seguin in this image. Seguin roofed it but he did shoot toward the middle of the net, and it went over Niemi's glove.


Last edited by Phu: 03-21-2012 at 10:22 PM.
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