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How to get Fighting Out - Problem Solved.

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Old
03-22-2012, 12:52 AM
  #51
useless
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That's the only reason why american's watch hockey...

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03-22-2012, 12:54 AM
  #52
NugentHopkinsfan
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Once fighting is gone American viewership will go up 2000%

There are so many people down there who want to watch hockey but every time they do they see nothing but line brawls and violence so they change the channel.

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03-22-2012, 01:08 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
Once fighting is gone American viewership will go up 2000%

There are so many people down there who want to watch hockey but every time they do they see nothing but line brawls and violence so they change the channel.
A wise man (an ex-college football head coach with a national championship ring) once said that to get the recruit, you need to get the recruit's mama. If she was on board with a school, then the recruit would stand a better chance of going there...if she wasn't, it didn't matter if the kid really wanted to go there or not.

Hockey has the same problem that football has, which is that too many parents are convinced that it's too violent for their kids to play. Football is based around athleticism and a set of skills that can be taught at a fairly advanced age, which is how someone who never played the game until high school can end up as a first-round pick. Hockey has way too much development early to ever be able to catch up. If a kid isn't developing skills by age 10 or so, he's simply never going to develop professional-level skills...with the lone exception of Ed Jovanovski, it's probably never been done in the last 20+ years to have a late starter turn into anything.

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03-22-2012, 01:16 AM
  #54
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I think, at the end of the day, this is another one of these needlessly polarizing debates that revolves around what I've come to call "hockey hipsterism". It goes in that pile along with the division names.

Drawing a line in the ice over something fairly minor and pushing the opposing viewpoint away from you without analysis or thought....it's nothing but a way of saying "I understand this arcane point, you do not. I understand it because I'm a real fan, and you are not. You speak without knowledge and try to change something you don't understand."

In that sense, it's no different than that idea of the previous set of division names. Demanding their return is a way of saying, "I remember these, so I was a fan before you. I understand the game's history, you do not."

Perhaps drastic steps need to be taken. Maybe we just need to have a point where both sides on the extreme of an issue recognize that maybe the other side has merit, and then we can all congregate in the middle ground that I've been trying to hold down for years. Basically, I was holding down the middle ground before you were, so it's no wonder that no one really understands it.

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03-22-2012, 01:18 AM
  #55
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i dig the fighting. if you don't, watch figure skating.

fighting isn't all about wanting to see people bleed or get punched, it's another way of

feeling pride toward an opposing team, even if your team is losing. it's the oldest

tradition in hockey.

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Old
03-22-2012, 03:09 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
again, is rec league or drop-in not hockey because there are no fights? Is NCAA not hockey because there are no fights? Are the Olympics not hockey because there are no fights?
If you want to argue semantics then no fighting is not integral to the game of hockey. I played deck hockey as a kid and never punched anyone in the face.

Hockey as a sport originated in North America with the NHL as the first professional competitive league. Since it's inception fighting has been an integral part of the NHL. End of discussion. Do we want the NHL to change so much as to lose some of it's identity and character? I really hope not. If people don't like rough stuff there are plenty of other leagues to watch.


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Old
03-22-2012, 03:14 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
Once fighting is gone American viewership will go up 2000%
This is most likely true. If fights in contact sports attracted fans, the NFL would have them in every game.

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Old
03-22-2012, 03:16 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Captain Monglobster View Post
Hockey as a sport originated in North America with the NHL as the first professional competitive league.
NHL wasn't even close to being the first.

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Old
03-22-2012, 03:23 AM
  #59
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I like real fighting, I dislike the staged crap though. It seems like every fight May had while he was with the Wings was staged.

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03-22-2012, 03:30 AM
  #60
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Seriously? Go watch basketball or soccer or something, seriously

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03-22-2012, 03:57 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Jarnkrok View Post
I like real fighting, I dislike the staged crap though. It seems like every fight May had while he was with the Wings was staged.
The NHL only wants staged fighting. Look at the Canucks and Hawks game tonight. Duncan Keith knocks a player out. The Canucks seek retribution...something that's happened for years in hockey. Bieks tries, Kassian tries, and the refs act as if they are protecting the world's most precious diamond by making a circle around Keith to protect her...er...him.

Pathetic. Might as well take fighting out. No purpose.

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03-22-2012, 04:01 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I don't even support this idea, and I've had some mildly harsh things to say about the issue already.



Yes. There's always been about a 50:50 split between wanting it kept and wanting it gone, but most who want it gone simply keep quiet and let the other side dominate the conversation. It skews the actual percentages pretty badly, but whatever.

Thats a freaking lie and you know it. More than 95 percent of the players want it and this number has been +/- 3%. For as long as they have polled the players.

The nhl is a gate driven league, when fights happen your saying half the stadium turns away in horror or goes and gets a hot dog ? When has a fight ever been booed in an nhl arena ?

The 50 number only has any legs if you include people who cant tell a wrist shot from a wrist watch and are against fighting in principle but would not follow hockey ever, so screw them. I hate opera but i dont go around demanding that they start singing in english,

50 percent, hardy har har.

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03-22-2012, 04:11 AM
  #63
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In terms of the anti-fighting lobby, there seems to be two main groups:

A. Those who, for some reason, think that removing fighting will allow the NHL to win the hearts and minds of Football, Baseball, Basketball and Nascar-loving Americans.

To these people I say - If that were possible, which it most likely isn't, why exactly is it so desirable? Why would you change the game just for a few more eyeballs? Seems counter-productive, XFL-type BS.

and B.

Those with an ulterior agenda, the ones that think making the game less violent will somehow contribute to the pacification of the North American male.

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03-22-2012, 04:12 AM
  #64
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Those who want fighting removed should bugger off and find a new sport to watch. Baseball, water polo, pillow fights.

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03-22-2012, 04:32 AM
  #65
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Hey anti-fighting crowd instead of removing fighting from the game, how about removing you as so called fans from the game?

If you can't stand fighting and want a more *****like league go watch Soccer, Basketball, Baseball or dancing hockey will be better that way.

Anyway there is a search option might as well use it for all these stupid take fighting out ideas, if you can't stand fighting go find another game its part of the tradition and integrity of hockey for the hundred time.

The players want it in the game and so do real hockeyfans , nothing to discuss there. For the protocoll I'd rather see all these whiners removed instead of something which has been part of the game since forever.

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03-22-2012, 04:43 AM
  #66
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Back in the late 90s, when the Canucks were awful, they played Phoenix in Vancouver. Norm Maciver was tangled up with Scott Walker. Walker's arms were tied up. Michel Petit came and punched him in the face. Petit got an instigator and Walker was bleeding. It was a 2 on 1 fight.

Petit trashed talked the Canucks in the media before the game, especially Walker. He criticized Walker for wearing a visor.

Walker talked to his father before the game, who told him that although his teammates would back him up, it was his responsibility as a man to stand up for himslef.

The next week, they came to Phoenix. Brashear wanted to attack Petit in the pre game warmup. Messier had to restrain him. Rick Tocchet of the Coyotes came and told Walker that he understood Petit deserved to get his, but to do it later.

11 minutes into the game, Walker was warned by the incompetent zebras not to attack. Walker attacked in a scrum in front of the Coyotes net.

He unleashed punches in the fight all over Petit. Petit was covered in blood. It was a beautiful sight to be seen as Walker left the ice with his hands raised high and his opponent gushing with blood.


That, my friends is what fighting should be in the NHL...


What is it today?

Staged fights by goons with no skills and referees protecting rats.

So we might as well get rid of it all. Have it or don't. None of this in-between crap.

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03-22-2012, 04:47 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
the 'problem' isn't that players fight. The problem is that unskilled players who would not otherwise be in the NHL if not for their fighting skills fight. This solution doesn't solve that problem.
That problem has been steadily taking care of itself over the last 10 years. The pure, designated enforcer is a dying breed. More and more, the job of standing up and dropping the gloves is being divided up amongst legitimate hockey players who can also mix it up with fists rather than specialized goons.

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03-22-2012, 04:49 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
That problem has been steadily taking care of itself over the last 10 years. The pure, designated enforcer is a dying breed. More and more, the job of standing up and dropping the gloves is being divided up amongst legitimate hockey players who can also mix it up with fists rather than specialized goons.
THe problem is the linesmen protect the rats. They won't get between two behemoths but they'll dive on Matt Cooke as if they were foiling an attempt on his life.

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03-22-2012, 05:35 AM
  #69
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Don Cherry thinks they will use two safety related rule changes to get hockey out of the game.

1 Mandatory visors.
2 Players must wear helmets at all times on the ice, if a player removes a helmet or loses their helmet they must immediately go to their bench.

The rules concerning fighting won't have to be touched but nobody is going to fight with visors and helmets on.

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03-22-2012, 05:49 AM
  #70
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I dislike the ultra defensive responses from the pro fighting crowd that plainly always state, go watch basketball, go watch soccer, go watch another sport. I am sorry, i did not realize that fights themselves are an integral part of hockey being seen as a real sport. Fans with responses like go watch figure skating, makes my IQ level drop by 20 points just from reading that moronic crap. If that is the only argument you have, then we don't want your kind of fans in this sport. {MOD EDIT}

And no i am not speaking about the pro fighting fans, i am speaking about the Don Cherry type blow hards that have no counter response besides insults and telling loyal fans of the game to go watch another sport because they want to see two grown men tug on each others jerseys for 3 minutes. You know what, you want to watch fighting, watch Boxing, watch MMA, don't look to hockey to quench your thirst for combat sports.


Last edited by Homeland Security: 03-22-2012 at 05:42 PM.
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03-22-2012, 05:50 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny Lamateena View Post
Don Cherry thinks they will use two safety related rule changes to get hockey out of the game.

1 Mandatory visors.
2 Players must wear helmets at all times on the ice, if a player removes a helmet or loses their helmet they must immediately go to their bench.

The rules concerning fighting won't have to be touched but nobody is going to fight with visors and helmets on.
Players do it all the time.

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03-22-2012, 05:54 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny Lamateena View Post
Don Cherry thinks they will use two safety related rule changes to get hockey out of the game.

1 Mandatory visors.
2 Players must wear helmets at all times on the ice, if a player removes a helmet or loses their helmet they must immediately go to their bench.

The rules concerning fighting won't have to be touched but nobody is going to fight with visors and helmets on.
Genious! How could we have overlooked the fact that players wont fight with helmets or visors, when today guys fight with helmets and visors ?


Are you advocating full shields or cages like the ncaa ? The game needs more responsibility from the players, not less. So if two players ( not those notalent miscreants that engage in staged fights) get together and are about to initiate one of the glorious and sactified heat of the moment scraps, but they both have full cages on, sticks in their hands and malice in their hearts, what do you think comes next?

If I never see another perezhogin, that would be fine with me.

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03-22-2012, 05:58 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
True fans like hockey. And no, fighting is not inherently part of hockey any more than TV timeouts are
Obviously you've never played hockey before. There's fights in my beer league where everybody is really good friends. Once they get kicked out of the game, they go grab a beer and laugh it off watching the rest of the game. Hockey is a very passionate, emotional, and physical game. Fighting IS a part of the game whether you like it or not.

I for one love fighting in hockey. I even love staged fights, even though I'm supposed to hate it for some reason.

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03-22-2012, 06:01 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Oilersfanneedsdrink View Post
Fans with responses like go watch figure skating, makes my IQ level drop by 20 points just from reading that moronic crap.
It's a valid point when you really think about it. Fighting has been a part of the game at the professional level for so long now that's it has become part of the identity of the sport itself. I don't think you will find many that support staged fights, but the ability to settle disputes on the ice is invaluable. If you remove fighting, you put retribution and the defusing of a volatile situation in the hands of refs. What happens when a team decides to run a goalie or does something incredibly dirty?

If you look at Basketball, you get stuff like Robert Horry basically checking Steve Nash into the scorers table. The NHL equivalent would be Colton Orr blatantly boarding Crosby. In that situation, are the Penguins supposed to sit there and be okay with it? There's no way the refs would adequately address that situation. Even if you threw Orr out, you'd still be looking at more dangerous plays later in the game as retribution. This is a game that largely allows free-form hitting and hard checking. It becomes a nasty situation, often quickly.

Hockey has really weened itself off of fighting post lockout. If you look at the numbers, they're way down. The prototypical heavyweight goon hardly even exists. Teams can't afford to dress a useless thug and hope to compete most nights. Even if you suddenly instill automatic suspensions, you'll still have fighting. College hockey anyone? And they wear cages!

I don't see how people are in favor of the big hits as part of the game but then are stunned by the barbarism of fighting. Seems to me that the fans love both and see it as part of what makes hockey... hockey.

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Old
03-22-2012, 06:18 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Oilersfanneedsdrink View Post
I dislike the ultra defensive responses from the pro fighting crowd that plainly always state, go watch basketball, go watch soccer, go watch another sport. I am sorry, i did not realize that fights themselves are an integral part of hockey being seen as a real sport. .
Then you havent been paying attention. Im pro fight, but not in every league. i dont want minor hockey players to fight, but we are talking about the nhl, a league that has fights since its inception and has a historical element for more than a century.

You cannot describe the nhl without fights. The idea that there was a time when the game was pure and fighting did not exist is a lie perpetrated by your anti fight bretheren. If fights have been around as long as goals and saves in the nhl and has been retained for more than 100 years, how is this not inegral.
If you like hockey and dont like fights you have many alternatives. Insisting that the nhl game should betray the players the overwhelming number of fans because YOU would like it better is a level of self centeredness that would draw scorn in any venue.

If you became a fan of the nhl, you became a fan of a league with fights. To feign ignorace of this as a platform for some fake sense of outrage seems a little disingenuous to me.


I dont like shootouts, i wish they would go away but they are part of the game now. Does this mean I wont watch games because of the shootouts ? Of course not, the overall game is still great even with one or two parts that I could do without. Why do the antifighting crowd think that every aspect of the game must be tailored to maximize their enjoyment ?


If you dont like the fights turn away, in two minutes the greatest game on gods green earth will start again. Is this concession too much to ask?

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