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(Hartford Courant)Whale/XL Center lease situation not looking good

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Old
03-15-2012, 07:44 PM
  #1
GarbageGoal
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(Hartford Courant)Whale/XL Center lease situation not looking good

....according to Howard Baldwin.

http://www.courant.com/sports/hockey....column?page=1

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03-15-2012, 09:49 PM
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Paints a pretty grim picture.

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03-15-2012, 10:38 PM
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I wouldn't worry too much. If the Islanders relocate they'll most likely take the Sound Tigers. In the lease agreement with the Isles/Tigers in order for them to leave, an AHL team would need to replace them.

Then you can have the Bridgeport Wolfpack.

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03-16-2012, 06:39 AM
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There has been some suggestion in our weekly paper here in Glens Falls that could place the Rangers farm team here after next season. There is some local ties in the front office, the ownership visited the arena when MSG lost the bid to run the XL Center, the Rangers have used the Civic Center to hold training camp and only a few years ago visited the area for a team bonding experience.

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03-16-2012, 01:49 PM
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So who owns the AHL franchise itself, is it still MSG/NYR?

I have also heard NYR to ADK after next season, it would make good sense. They'd draw probably the same number of fans, but with a much more reasonable lease. If MSG were able to manage the arena also, that would make it more likely.

I think that would help the crowds in Springfield somewhat also.

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03-16-2012, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mygameworn View Post
I wouldn't worry too much. If the Islanders relocate they'll most likely take the Sound Tigers. In the lease agreement with the Isles/Tigers in order for them to leave, an AHL team would need to replace them.

Then you can have the Bridgeport Wolfpack.
not going to happen, since the Bridgeport lease is tied until 2024.

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03-16-2012, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RFA View Post
So who owns the AHL franchise itself, is it still MSG/NYR?

I have also heard NYR to ADK after next season, it would make good sense. They'd draw probably the same number of fans, but with a much more reasonable lease. If MSG were able to manage the arena also, that would make it more likely.

I think that would help the crowds in Springfield somewhat also.
as far as I understand, the whole deal centers on WSE, no one liked the mid-season switch or rebrand anyway.... that was the whole reason why they went to Wolf*Pack when the Rangers left Binghamton....

MSG Still owns the franchise in Hartford, and the travel definitely goes up if GFCC is the destination, whereas it's 70 mi. from MSG to XL

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03-16-2012, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
not going to happen, since the Bridgeport lease is tied until 2024.
First, do you have a link for this statement?

Second, all the people who keep putting up things such as "lease is in place for x years, affiliation is in place for y years, etc." really need to stop using that argument. Any contract can be broken, it just depends on the financial penalty for doing so as to whether someone wants to break it or not.

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03-16-2012, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mygameworn View Post
I wouldn't worry too much. If the Islanders relocate they'll most likely take the Sound Tigers. In the lease agreement with the Isles/Tigers in order for them to leave, an AHL team would need to replace them.

Then you can have the Bridgeport Wolfpack.
Wow. That's quite a leap.

Howard Baldwin manages the Whale's operations. MSG owns the franchise. There's an internal standoff.

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03-16-2012, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
not going to happen, since the Bridgeport lease is tied until 2024.
I remember Omaha, QC Flames and the Iowa Chops. I am sure that they all had leases for 4 or 5 years. Abby has a 10 year lease. We will see if they complete it.

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03-16-2012, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Hawk View Post
First, do you have a link for this statement?

Second, all the people who keep putting up things such as "lease is in place for x years, affiliation is in place for y years, etc." really need to stop using that argument. Any contract can be broken, it just depends on the financial penalty for doing so as to whether someone wants to break it or not.
All the people = hutch

Nobody else uses that argument.

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03-17-2012, 02:38 AM
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He took on a bad deal, and no one is gonna help him out of it. It's a shame, the city doesn't want to help itself.

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03-21-2012, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adsfan View Post
I remember Omaha, QC Flames and the Iowa Chops. I am sure that they all had leases for 4 or 5 years. Abby has a 10 year lease. We will see if they complete it.
Bridgeport's been asked that, adsfan, ever since the franchise was founded, it's a longer-term lease which in essence is nullified bc the Islanders own the franchise, it expires in 2021, another 9 seasons

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03-21-2012, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
not going to happen, since the Bridgeport lease is tied until 2024.
They have an out clause that if they can secure another team, they can leave. Hence why I brought it up.

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03-21-2012, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RFA View Post
So who owns the AHL franchise itself, is it still MSG/NYR?

I have also heard NYR to ADK after next season, it would make good sense. They'd draw probably the same number of fans, but with a much more reasonable lease. If MSG were able to manage the arena also, that would make it more likely.

I think that would help the crowds in Springfield somewhat also.
How about NYR back to Binghamtron? Have heard numerous a times that ottawa and Binghamton will end this season after the copntract expires.

But i've also heard Binghamton to ECHL. That may hinge on Elmira's situation, not entirely sure though.

Adirondack would be better suited for the ECHL to be honest.

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03-21-2012, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Green Men Rule View Post
How about NYR back to Binghamtron? Have heard numerous a times that ottawa and Binghamton will end this season after the copntract expires.

But i've also heard Binghamton to ECHL. That may hinge on Elmira's situation, not entirely sure though.

Adirondack would be better suited for the ECHL to be honest.
The Whale coming to Binghamton would be a dream for me.. it'd give me something to do after classes on weeknights

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03-22-2012, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Green Men Rule View Post
How about NYR back to Binghamtron? Have heard numerous a times that ottawa and Binghamton will end this season after the copntract expires.

But i've also heard Binghamton to ECHL. That may hinge on Elmira's situation, not entirely sure though.

Adirondack would be better suited for the ECHL to be honest.
Bingo to the ECHL would be interesting. It would certainly re-create the Elmira/Bingo UHL rivalry. However it would then remove the rivalries with WB/S and Syracuse plus would the local fanbase support a lower league or would it be similar to what happened when the UHL was in town?

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03-22-2012, 02:35 PM
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Bingo to the ECHL would be interesting. It would certainly re-create the Elmira/Bingo UHL rivalry. However it would then remove the rivalries with WB/S and Syracuse plus would the local fanbase support a lower league or would it be similar to what happened when the UHL was in town?
No idea. I'm not certain if the E would allow it though. Because Elmira and Binghamton are within a proximity. I don't see why the league would disapprove, I get it as a territory issue can sometimes exist, but I don't think here it would be the case.

I hear a lot of it depends on if Elmira finds a suitor or not. Binghamton fans are saying that due to the increasing cost that Mitchell is looking for a step down and whats going on here may pave the way.

Personally I think ADK would be an ECHL market, ADK, Bingo and Elmira. Would be like reliving the UHL Days.

A 30-30-30 pipeline is realistic within 5 years I think. NHL just needs to expand the number of contracts a team could have to make sense, hear it's a discussion within the new CBA negotiations.

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03-22-2012, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Green Men Rule View Post
No idea. I'm not certain if the E would allow it though. Because Elmira and Binghamton are within a proximity. I don't see why the league would disapprove, I get it as a territory issue can sometimes exist, but I don't think here it would be the case.

I hear a lot of it depends on if Elmira finds a suitor or not. Binghamton fans are saying that due to the increasing cost that Mitchell is looking for a step down and whats going on here may pave the way.

Personally I think ADK would be an ECHL market, ADK, Bingo and Elmira. Would be like reliving the UHL Days.

A 30-30-30 pipeline is realistic within 5 years I think. NHL just needs to expand the number of contracts a team could have to make sense, hear it's a discussion within the new CBA negotiations.
I would guess that the contracts would have to be extended to about 65. It is currently 50 which leaves the NHL and AHL with roughly two full rosters, 46. Of course most teams want to leave a couple of open spots for later signings (overagers in CHL, undrafted NCAA players, etc.). That leaves 19 available contracts with the 65 limit. Leaving 7 of those for sigining undrafted free agents, an ECHL affiliate would fill with 12 players under NHL contract to start the season. A roster of 23 with 12 players already made available means only filling out 11 roster spots. Of course, we can get into different discussions on ways to make certain that teams remain competitive instead of solely devoted to development. (A pet project of mine in my multitude of spare time).

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03-22-2012, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mygameworn View Post
They have an out clause that if they can secure another team, they can leave. Hence why I brought it up.
why would they? WHAT OTHER Franchise other than the Islanders would want Bridgeport, CT is going absolutely nowhere until 2014 at the earliest, and IF MSG assumes control of the club as they did until Baldwin showed up w/ that grandiose plan to bring the Whale back, how's that working..... basically all the Hartford fans, and AHL Insiders basically knew this would backfire especialy after the rebrand mid-season, it's a wonder the franchise itself hasn't collapsed under Whalers Sports & Entertainment despite MSG owning it...

Bridgeport would've bben long gone had the Islanders not bought them from the estate of Roy Boe, who, as you recall had to sell Worcester to begin with, and remember what hapened there....

ABSOLUTELY you will not see the B-Sens leave, I think some of you are confusing the B-Sens w/ the rumored Binghamton Mets move to Ottawa.

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03-22-2012, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
why would they? WHAT OTHER Franchise other than the Islanders would want Bridgeport, CT is going absolutely nowhere until 2014 at the earliest, and IF MSG assumes control of the club as they did until Baldwin showed up w/ that grandiose plan to bring the Whale back, how's that working..... basically all the Hartford fans, and AHL Insiders basically knew this would backfire especialy after the rebrand mid-season, it's a wonder the franchise itself hasn't collapsed under Whalers Sports & Entertainment despite MSG owning it...

Bridgeport would've bben long gone had the Islanders not bought them from the estate of Roy Boe, who, as you recall had to sell Worcester to begin with, and remember what hapened there....

ABSOLUTELY you will not see the B-Sens leave, I think some of you are confusing the B-Sens w/ the rumored Binghamton Mets move to Ottawa.
I am not confusing anything Chris. Saw it on their fan page on Facebook about a month+ ago first mentioned. I know a fan here who knows Tom Mitchell well enough. So it's a combination of different people where i've heard this from.

Senators deal in Ottawa is up this spring.

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03-22-2012, 07:01 PM
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Going from an AHL title to the ECHL in one season (or maybe two) would be brutal for Binghamton.

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03-22-2012, 08:50 PM
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Going from an AHL title to the ECHL in one season (or maybe two) would be brutal for Binghamton.
How about going from Calder Cup champions to finishing last in the conference then to the echl?

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03-23-2012, 08:31 AM
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Rumor alert:

As far as I have heard, Ottawa and Binghamton have renewed for three years. The lack of announcement is likely due to ongoing lease negotiations between the franchise owners and the County. There is a new County Executive, and she is putting the County finances under scrutiny. This is what is delaying the process. There may be major changes to the lease agreements on both sides.

Take it for what it is worth.

Unfortunately, there has been little documented information on this subject to back up anything, whether it be what I have heard from people close to the situation, or what was posted on Facebook.

Frankly, I think it would be stupid for the Binghamton owners not to be at least in communication with their old partners at MSG, but I am not sure if a) MSG is willing to sell their franchise (to Baldwin investors or others) and affiliate with independent owners or if b) Baldwin is ready to throw in the towel and give back MSG the reins to the franchise. So I think Ottawa is the low-hanging fruit.

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03-23-2012, 11:53 AM
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Isn't MSG the owners but they are basically out of the operation now? I know Balodwin is doing it now but don't you think theres more to the story if they gave it up to a guy who wants NHL Hockey back in that city living a pipedream? Could it be they no longer want anything to do going forward with managing any AHL franchise the Rangers are associated with?

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