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Worse Trade?

View Poll Results: Worse Trade in recent Habs History
Gomez - Bad contract for Stud defenseman 31 17.71%
Roy - Franchise goalie for 3 average players 125 71.43%
Savard - Denis on back end of his career Chelios was defenseman of the '90s 12 6.86%
Turgeon - Habs never recovered his 100 points 2 1.14%
Langway - Hall of Fame defenseman, Engblom and Jarvis were worth Green and Walter 2 1.14%
Lemieux - A decade of good playoff hockey left in Claude for virtually nil in return 3 1.71%
Voters: 175. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:20 AM
  #26
Lafleurs Guy
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I remember that night like it was yesterday and I still don't understand why they had to trade him right away. Yes, the blow up was public and he asked for a trade but a more mature management group would have told him to calm down and see if they can work out differences. If they couldn't work things out, they should have waited for the best time to maximize the return.

Blow ups happen all the time and sometimes things can be resolved. Always more drama here. Heck, as bad as Howson is with CBJ, he held firm in the Nash derby hoping to get an insane return.

It seems to be a pattern with this organization to panic and dump players because they show the finger, say or do something bad in public or are rumored to have slept with the president's wife. You would think they could tough it out until they can get fair value.
You're absolutely right. And we saw a similar situation AGAIN this season with Cammalleri. It's one thing to make mistakes. It's even worse when you don't learn from them.

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:27 AM
  #27
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It's genuinely hard to choose, as they are all bad trades, albeit at different times for different reasons and many of them under different management.

One that has always stood out to me, and not listed, is Guy Carbonneau for Jim Montgomery in the 94 offseason. Guy flipped off a reporter and got shipped out for trash (Montgomery went on to play just 5 games as a Hab and never held down a full-time NHL job). It was such an obvious dumping of a talented player for non-hockey reasons that it signaled the Canadiens were no longer serious about building a winning team.

They're still not

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:32 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
It's genuinely hard to choose, as they are all bad trades, albeit at different times for different reasons and many of them under different management.

One that has always stood out to me, and not listed, is Guy Carbonneau for Jim Montgomery in the 94 offseason. Guy flipped off a reporter and got shipped out for trash (Montgomery went on to play just 5 games as a Hab and never held down a full-time NHL job). It was such an obvious dumping of a talented player for non-hockey reasons that it signaled the Canadiens were no longer serious about building a winning team.

They're still not
We make a lot of window dressing moves. Let's hope there's not more coming. Patrick Roy as our coach sure smells like one to me.

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03-22-2012, 09:33 AM
  #29
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Gomez isn't even near the worst...

Easy to bash the Gomez trade now with 20/20 hindsight, but I didn't hear much of this 2 years ago when he was a key guy in the Habs' best playoff run in 20 years. if the choice was no Gomez trade and no ECF run, I would do the Gomez trade again, cuz that spring was AMAZING. The city was hopping, complete insanity after the games, I skipped so many days of work during that month! Great memories, NO REGRETS!!

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03-22-2012, 09:35 AM
  #30
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The Roy trade takes the case. He was a true, legit franchise player who went on to win two more cups. (Also don't forget, we gave away Mike Keane two, who was a solid NHL player at the time and an absolute gem as a character guy.)

The Gomez trade was almost as good for NY as the Roy trade was for the Avalanche though. We not only gave them the stud D, we took a cancer off their team, gave them the cap room to sign Gaborik and threw in Higgins as well, who they quickly turned into Prust. So they have 3 key roster players they got in return for dumping one of the worst contracts in the NHL.

Sigh.

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03-22-2012, 09:36 AM
  #31
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Easily the Roy trade. We gave up one of the best players in the league, a future hall-of-famer/number retired/Conn Smythe winning elite goaltender, along with defensive stalwart Keane for what amounted to chump change. At least in those other trades we picked up something with value (Corson, Savard, the Good Doctor) or gave up little to nothing (yes McDonagh has panned out quite nicely, but he and Janik, Higgins and Valentenko don't make one half of a Roy). The Roy trade was so abysmal it pains me just to think about it.

Imagine if you will, a Detorit Red Wings team fresh off its first visit to the finals since 1966. Beaten by a team with a young Martin Brodeur and a smothering defense. How do you fix that? By bringing in Brodeur's equal - Patrick Roy. The cost? Chris Osgood & Lidstrom, Konstantinov or Federov and possibly picks (esp if we include Keane). No assurances that deal can be done - Roy demanding a trade tied our hands a bit, and Lidstrom, Konstantinov and Federov were all top prospects at the time (although no more heralded than Thibault was, IIRC - 'cept maybe Federov) but for a team that lost to a goalie in the finals not seven months earlier acquiring on of the leagues top goalies had to sound tempting. What a different team this would have been in the late 90's.

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:36 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
It's genuinely hard to choose, as they are all bad trades, albeit at different times for different reasons and many of them under different management.

One that has always stood out to me, and not listed, is Guy Carbonneau for Jim Montgomery in the 94 offseason. Guy flipped off a reporter and got shipped out for trash (Montgomery went on to play just 5 games as a Hab and never held down a full-time NHL job). It was such an obvious dumping of a talented player for non-hockey reasons that it signaled the Canadiens were no longer serious about building a winning team.

They're still not
I think Pierre Turgeon or Damphousse was also dumped for nothing, cuz they got caught drunk & urinating on a golf course or something... R. Corey was such a prissy snob.

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03-22-2012, 09:36 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
Gomez isn't even near the worst...

Easy to bash the Gomez trade now with 20/20 hindsight, but I didn't hear much of this 2 years ago when he was a key guy in the Habs' best playoff run in 20 years. if the choice was no Gomez trade and no ECF run, I would do the Gomez trade again, cuz that spring was AMAZING. The city was hopping, complete insanity after the games, I skipped so many days of work during that month! Great memories, NO REGRETS!!
??????

You didn't need hindsight to see that this was a disaster. Yes, it was defended by the usual suspects but it was universally panned across the league as being a terrible move. As for him being a 'key' player for us in that drive, I'm sorry but I don't remember that either.

Absolutely horrific trade.

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03-22-2012, 09:38 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by idk View Post
Easily the Roy trade. We gave up one of the best players in the league, a future hall-of-famer/number retired/Conn Smythe winning elite goaltender, along with defensive stalwart Keane for what amounted to chump change. At least in those other trades we picked up something with value (Corson, Savard, the Good Doctor) or gave up little to nothing (yes McDonagh has panned out quite nicely, but he and Janik, Higgins and Valentenko don't make one half of a Roy). The Roy trade was so abysmal it pains me just to think about it.

Imagine if you will, a Detorit Red Wings team fresh off its first visit to the finals since 1966. Beaten by a team with a young Martin Brodeur and a smothering defense. How do you fix that? By bringing in Brodeur's equal - Patrick Roy. The cost? Chris Osgood & Lidstrom, Konstantinov or Federov and possibly picks (esp if we include Keane). No assurances that deal can be done - Roy demanding a trade tied our hands a bit, and Lidstrom, Konstantinov and Federov were all top prospects at the time (although no more heralded than Thibault was, IIRC - 'cept maybe Federov) but for a team that lost to a goalie in the finals not seven months earlier acquiring on of the leagues top goalies had to sound tempting. What a different team this would have been in the late 90's.
It was rumoured at the time that the Wings were seriously considering giving us Yzerman for Roy.

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03-22-2012, 09:57 AM
  #35
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??????

You didn't need hindsight to see that this was a disaster. Yes, it was defended by the usual suspects but it was universally panned across the league as being a terrible move. As for him being a 'key' player for us in that drive, I'm sorry but I don't remember that either.

Absolutely horrific trade.
More 20/20 selective hindsight. It's reassuring to know I can always use that as a beacon incase I get lost in the woods and can't find my way back to hfboards.

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Old
03-22-2012, 10:02 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It was rumoured at the time that the Wings were seriously considering giving us Yzerman for Roy.
If that's not enough to make a grown Habs fan cry I don't know what is.

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03-22-2012, 10:04 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
More 20/20 selective hindsight. It's reassuring to know I can always use that as a beacon incase I get lost in the woods and can't find my way back to hfboards.
Our club can use a lot less hindsight and a lot more foresight.

Go back when the trade was made, most folks knew it was a disaster right from the beginning. All hindsight does is confirm that we were right.
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If that's not enough to make a grown Habs fan cry I don't know what is.
I know. Still can't picture Yzerman in a Hab uniform though. Would have looked so strange.

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03-22-2012, 10:09 AM
  #38
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The Gomez trade happened because the entire city ganged up on Gainey for building a team that was weak down the middle, and he caved in.

He first went Mats Sundin, but Sundin didn't want to come here. I think the package was Higgins, Grabovsky and a 2nd. Had Sundin waived his NTC, we might have won the cup in 2008.

He then got Robert Lang for a 2nd round draft pick, so effectively Grabovsky for Lang. Excellent trade.

He then went after Vincent Lecavalier. Tampa Bay wanted Plekanec, Gorges, Higgins, Subban, and three 1st round draft picks. Gainey said no. Thank God he had a moment of sanity. Any one of those pieces alone is worth more than Lecavalier and his albatross contract. He doesn't look so hot with St-Louis playing on the Stamkos line.

Plekanec was having the worst season of his career, Lang had his leg injured, and Koivu was hated by the media and most ignorant fans as promoting a culture of losing. So, Gainey offered Sather a package of McDonagh, Higgins, and Valentenko. I recall a Habs fan saying McDonagh was expendable because David Fischer was progressing. For some time after, many habs fans joked that Tom Pyatt was the best player in the trade.


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03-22-2012, 10:09 AM
  #39
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It was rumoured at the time that the Wings were seriously considering giving us Yzerman for Roy.
The most credible rumour is that Serge Savard was about to trade Roy to Colorado for Owen Nolan and Fiset... But him and Demers were fired after the first 5 or 6 games of the season (before being replaced by Houle/Tremblay).... We ended up with Rucinsky, Kovalenko and Jocelyn Thibeault.....

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03-22-2012, 10:11 AM
  #40
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They were all awful... except at least McPhee and Walter contributed to the 86 cup.

As bad as the Gomez trade was...

The Trade of Roy was lethal.

******* Houle, man

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03-22-2012, 10:15 AM
  #41
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The most credible rumour is that Serge Savard was about to trade Roy to Colorado for Owen Nolan and Fiset... But him and Demers were fired after the first 5 or 6 games of the season (before being replaced by Houle/Tremblay).... We ended up with Rucinsky, Kovalenko and Jocelyn Thibeault.....
I remember that rumour as well.
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They were all awful... except at least McPhee and Walter contributed to the 86 cup.

As bad as the Gomez trade was...

The Trade of Roy was lethal.

******* Houle, man
I know Green was no Paul Coffey but he and Ludwig were pretty freaking awesome defensively. That team didn't have a lot of firepower but it was so big and strong, teams did not like playing against us. They knew they were in for a rough ride when they played us.


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Old
03-22-2012, 10:22 AM
  #42
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McDonagh is a good defenseman. I'd love to have him--but Patrick Roy he is not.

Also Gomez was good in 09-10, so he wasn't as useless as the 3 we got for Roy. That said he is of course the very definition of useless now lol.

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03-22-2012, 10:25 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
Gomez isn't even near the worst...

Easy to bash the Gomez trade now with 20/20 hindsight, but I didn't hear much of this 2 years ago when he was a key guy in the Habs' best playoff run in 20 years. if the choice was no Gomez trade and no ECF run, I would do the Gomez trade again, cuz that spring was AMAZING. The city was hopping, complete insanity after the games, I skipped so many days of work during that month! Great memories, NO REGRETS!!
For someone who bashes others for having selective hindsight, you sure indulge in it yourself. The Gomez trade was widely panned, and those who had some sense of McDo's value were especially outraged. (I was ****ing furious the day the trade happened, myself.) Later, when the team went to the semis true enough there was a wave of euphoria, but Gomez was at best a decent player, hardly one of the team leaders. Cammy, Subban and Price all delivered far, far more in that playoff run. Most people who softened on the trade felt the overall rebuild was decent, but still felt the Gomez trade was a ridiculous overpayment.

Glad you enjoyed the playoff run. Don't project your own enthusiasm onto others. It was perfectly possible to enjoy the playoff run and hope for the best from Gomez while also recognizing the trade was a disaster from day one. Just cause it's gotten worse since doesn't mean it was ever an acceptable trade. It wasn't.

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03-22-2012, 10:30 AM
  #44
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The 2009 playoff run would have benefited form Koivu's presence.

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03-22-2012, 10:31 AM
  #45
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The Gomez trade happened because the entire city ganged up on Gainey for building a team that was weak down the middle, and he caved in.

He first went Mats Sundin, but Sundin didn't want to come here. I think the package was Higgins, Grabovsky and a 2nd. Had Sundin waived his NTC, we might have won the cup in 2008.

He then got Robert Lang for a 2nd round draft pick, so effectively Grabovsky for Lang. Excellent trade.

He then went after Vincent Lecavalier. Tampa Bay wanted Plekanec, Gorges, Higgins, Subban, and three 1st round draft picks. Gainey said no. Thank God he had a moment of sanity. Any one of those pieces alone is worth more than Lecavalier and his albatross contract. He doesn't look so hot with St-Louis playing on the Stamkos line.

Plekanec was having the worst season of his career, Lang had his leg injured, and Koivu was hated by the media and most ignorant fans as promoting a culture of losing. So, Gainey offered Sather a package of McDonagh, Higgins, and Valentenko. I recall a Habs fan saying McDonagh was expendable because David Fischer was progressing. For some time after, many habs fans joked that Tom Pyatt was the best player in the trade.
Thank you for going to the trouble of posting the summary. Gainey needed to plug a hole at center, and nobody here was willing to give up major assets. So Gainey had to reform the top 6, and do it on the cheap. From Summer 2009 through summer 2010 it looked like he pulled it off, added new effective top line talent (Gionta-Gomez-Cammelleri) for just the cost of Higgins and a prospect.

Of course now in 2012 it fell apart, both Gomez & Cammelleri turned into a shell of what they were even in 2010, but I don't see how that it's Gainey's fault that these 2 guys' careers collapsed? Not that the Gainey crowd will stop to think about it.

Yes it's too ****ing bad about the loss of McDonagh who turned into a solid Dman, we sure coulda used him this year, so that was tough, but he would not have saved this season anyways. The Habs' D lineup should be decent again next year with our MVP back in form, and a nice crop of D prospects will be hitting the AHL too.

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03-22-2012, 10:31 AM
  #46
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For someone who bashes others for having selective hindsight, you sure indulge in it yourself. The Gomez trade was widely panned, and those who had some sense of McDo's value were especially outraged. (I was ****ing furious the day the trade happened, myself.) Later, when the team went to the semis true enough there was a wave of euphoria, but Gomez was at best a decent player, hardly one of the team leaders. Cammy, Subban and Price all delivered far, far more in that playoff run. Most people who softened on the trade felt the overall rebuild was decent, but still felt the Gomez trade was a ridiculous overpayment.
I think you mean Halak right? Still, your point stands and I can't believe there are still people trying to defend this stupid trade.
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Glad you enjoyed the playoff run. Don't project your own enthusiasm onto others. It was perfectly possible to enjoy the playoff run and hope for the best from Gomez while also recognizing the trade was a disaster from day one. Just cause it's gotten worse since doesn't mean it was ever an acceptable trade. It wasn't.
It's going to hurt us for a long time.
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Thank you for going to the trouble of posting the summary. Gainey needed to plug a hole at center, and nobody here was willing to give up major assets.
Why did he have to plug a hole at center? He had Koivu.
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So Gainey had to reform the top 6, and do it on the cheap.
Right... so getting a guy who was double the cost of Koivu AND throwing in your best prospect is the cheap way to go.
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From Summer 2009 through summer 2010 it looked like he pulled it off, added new effective top line talent (Gionta-Gomez-Cammelleri) for just the cost of Higgins and a prospect.
No it didn't. Those were sideways moves replacing players with similar production for a lot more money AND giving up our best prospect.

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Of course now in 2012 it fell apart, both Gomez & Cammelleri turned into a shell of what they were even in 2010, but I don't see how that it's Gainey's fault that these 2 guys' careers collapsed? Not that the Gainey crowd will stop to think about it.
Cammy and Gionta were free agent signings. I don't think anyone has really roasted him for that. The fact that both players (and gomez himself) were smurfs didn't make much sense but at least no players were given up for the FAs. Gomez though? Totally stupid move.
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Yes it's too ****ing bad about the loss of McDonagh who turned into a solid Dman, we sure coulda used him this year, so that was tough, but he would not have saved this season anyways. The Habs' D lineup should be decent again next year with our MVP back in form, and a nice crop of D prospects will be hitting the AHL too.
There's a lot of wishful thinking here...

And btw, keeping McD might've actually helped us get into the playoffs this season. He would've made a huge difference here. Moreover (and this is where the stupidity compounds itself) we went out and got Kaberle because our D was so poor. So to fix the problem on D (that we might not have had to begin with) we made it even worse by tying ourselves to Kaberle and his stupid contract.

Ah the Gomez trade... the gift that keeps on giving.


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03-22-2012, 10:33 AM
  #47
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People here don't remember that McDo wasn't seen that good when the trade was made. Was average in college and didn't do too well in the WJC. He just exploded in the years after the trade. Stop saying you knew all the way he would be a stud, as some here were already saying he was the next Fischer...

Hipocrisy...

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03-22-2012, 10:34 AM
  #48
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I voted Roy, but the Desjardisn Leclair trade comes second, you just don't trade your #1 D with you best young gun to boot, no matter how good The Doctor was.

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03-22-2012, 10:37 AM
  #49
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Whoever votes for the Gomez deal in this poll is out of their mind.

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03-22-2012, 10:41 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
Thank you for going to the trouble of posting the summary. Gainey needed to plug a hole at center, and nobody here was willing to give up major assets. So Gainey had to reform the top 6, and do it on the cheap. From Summer 2009 through summer 2010 it looked like he pulled it off, added new effective top line talent (Gionta-Gomez-Cammelleri) for just the cost of Higgins and a prospect.

Of course now in 2012 it fell apart, both Gomez & Cammelleri turned into a shell of what they were even in 2010, but I don't see how that it's Gainey's fault that these 2 guys' careers collapsed? Not that the Gainey crowd will stop to think about it.

Yes it's too ****ing bad about the loss of McDonagh who turned into a solid Dman, we sure coulda used him this year, so that was tough, but he would not have saved this season anyways. The Habs' D lineup should be decent again next year with our MVP back in form, and a nice crop of D prospects will be hitting the AHL too.
Actually that wasn't my conclusion.

I agree that Gainey was obsessed with the center position, that's the baseline, but I don't agree that the obsession was logically-founded, and thus I don't agree that the Gomez trade was necessary.

The team fundamentally underestimated Plekanec. He had a bad season, but bad seasons happen to good players. That's why they offered him a 1-year contract for 2.7 million. They were not sure he could be a to-6 center. He is a top-20 center in the NHL if you average over the last few years.

They also overestimated Gomez. If you're going to throw a good package at a center, fine. But why do so for a center who is inferior to Koivu? Getting Gaborik to play on Koivu's wing would have been better. They could have also kept Tanguay -- he was the perfect winger for Koivu. I agree that having an elite center is nice, but it doesn't follow that having a second tier center is almost as nice. It's not.

The BS about teams being built down the middle was just armchair GMs who hated Koivu gravitating to the nearest slogan. It was not the root cause of the Habs problems. The problem of the 2008-09 season was injuries, and thus, likely a combination of bad luck, poor conditioning, and poor equipment.

*************************

I forgot to say, in the 2009 draft, 5 of the Habs 7 draft picks went to centers, including 1st rounder Louis Leblanc and 3rd round Joonas Nattinen. Gainey also signed Mikael Johansson and Andreas Engvist to contracts, in the hopes either one might pan out. Gainey was obsessed. The criticism from the armchair GMs about center depth got to him.

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