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Old
03-22-2012, 09:42 AM
  #151
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Wow those Googol Translated sentences.. Not good.

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03-22-2012, 10:01 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Shark Fin Soup View Post
Bryzgalov probably says stuff like that in Russian to himself all the time.
Amping himself up by telling himself how he's so awesome is beneath a scholar like Bryz. He's probably focused on stuff like calculating gavitational redshift.

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04-27-2013, 12:23 PM
  #153
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Figured I would quote this from the News and Notes thread, so it might get some more views and discussion.

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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Didn't see this posted anywhere. Leaders gonna lead.

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Sharks head coach Todd McLellan had a decision to make in late March, when some of his team’s veteran leaders came to him with the message that they were, quite simply, worn out.

...

Captain Joe Thornton explained.
“We just weren’t playing well, and with the condensed season and all the travel, guys just looked a little bit tired,” he said. “We were just like, ‘if you could, give us some time off.’ We didn’t realize he was going to give us this much time off, but it’s been working. The guys just look fresh, they really enjoy coming to the rink, and when they come they know it’s going to be a workday. It’s been really effective.”
http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/kevin...rks-turnaround

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Old
04-27-2013, 01:13 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Figured I would quote this from the News and Notes thread, so it might get some more views and discussion.
Thanks for re-posting that. Honestly, what team did TMac think he was coaching? Not being able to tell the difference between Sharks' veteran fatigue and Sharks' motivation issues is troubling.

Definitely resurrects the debate over TMac's comment last season/previous seasons (paraphrased): "...it shouldn't be my job to motivate these players."

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04-27-2013, 01:23 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Linkster View Post
Thanks for re-posting that. Honestly, what team did TMac think he was coaching? Not being able to tell the difference between Sharks' veteran fatigue and Sharks' motivation issues is troubling.

Definitely resurrects the debate over TMac's comment last season/previous seasons (paraphrased): "...it shouldn't be my job to motivate these players."
This post just proves that some people will always see what they want to see. Many on here were asking for bag skates they were playing so bad.

I see a coach who listened to his leadership group and made an adjustment. Obviously the deadline deals also made a difference, but this management group just can't win with some of you.

And his comment regarding motivating players is absolutely true. It doesn't mean he shouldn't / doesn't try and motivate his team.

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04-27-2013, 03:03 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
And his comment regarding motivating players is absolutely true. It doesn't mean he shouldn't / doesn't try and motivate his team.
True. But TMac's other comments last month about "too many passengers" some nights strikes me as a sign that motivation is still an issue, and he hasn't figured it out. Will it always be an issue for him and this team? Probably. Is it an issue for many other NHL teams and HCs? Yes.

I see a winning team that isn't winning at crucial moments. I want to see a team that flattens the Canucks and the Ducks in the playoffs. Maybe TMac will deliver next month, and all is forgiven.

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04-27-2013, 03:25 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkster View Post
True. But TMac's other comments last month about "too many passengers" some nights strikes me as a sign that motivation is still an issue, and he hasn't figured it out. Will it always be an issue for him and this team? Probably. Is it an issue for many other NHL teams and HCs? Yes.

I see a winning team that isn't winning at crucial moments. I want to see a team that flattens the Canucks and the Ducks in the playoffs. Maybe TMac will deliver next month, and all is forgiven.
You can only be so motivated when you're dead exhausted. They're supposed to be professional players, as in they should be able to handle it to some degree, but they couldn't and the leaders told Todd and Todd made a change and since then, the team has played quite amazingly.

I don't think the players would have willingly said anything about the fatigue early on since every other team would have had to deal with the same fatigue. It takes a strong man to admit to being weak and it's good that Todd made the changes necessary to help the team.

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04-27-2013, 04:01 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
This post just proves that some people will always see what they want to see. Many on here were asking for bag skates they were playing so bad.

I see a coach who listened to his leadership group and made an adjustment. Obviously the deadline deals also made a difference, but this management group just can't win with some of you.

And his comment regarding motivating players is absolutely true. It doesn't mean he shouldn't / doesn't try and motivate his team.
The defensive style of play requires harder skating which contributes. I have also noticed that TM has kept the minutes in game down all year. It is very rare when the top veteran forwards, JT, Pavs and Patty, are significantly surpassing 20min when it was common in the past. Boyle has had his time cut as well.

Indirectly, it begs the question of age and decline. Is it really only because of the condensed season? Can this issue of fatigue be an issue in the playoffs where the potential for multiple overtimes is high? How have the minutes gone for teams that are cream of the crop contenders (Mont, Bos, Pitt, Chi, Ana)? Are any of the aforementioned five showing signs of fatigue?

(Despite your take of my view of coaching, I have always been circumspect about some of the extreme views on TM.)

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04-27-2013, 04:46 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
The defensive style of play requires harder skating which contributes. I have also noticed that TM has kept the minutes in game down all year. It is very rare when the top veteran forwards, JT, Pavs and Patty, are significantly surpassing 20min when it was common in the past. Boyle has had his time cut as well.

Indirectly, it begs the question of age and decline. Is it really only because of the condensed season? Can this issue of fatigue be an issue in the playoffs where the potential for multiple overtimes is high? How have the minutes gone for teams that are cream of the crop contenders (Mont, Bos, Pitt, Chi, Ana)? Are any of the aforementioned five showing signs of fatigue?

(Despite your take of my view of coaching, I have always been circumspect about some of the extreme views on TM.)
boston only 1 forward plays over 19 minutes a game (bergeron), only seidenberg, chara, boychuck play 20+ mins highest being chara at 24:53.

montreal only 1 forward plays over 19 minutes a game (plekanec), only 4 players play over 20+ mins (markov, subban, gorges, diaz (22 games)), highest being 24:14

chicago 2 forwards play 19+ mins a game (kane, toews), 5 players play 20+ mins a game (keith, seabrook, hjalmarsson, oduya, kane) highest being keith at 24:06

pittsburgh 2 forwards play 19+ mins a game (crosby, malkin), 5 players play 20+ mins a game (letang, martin, orpik, crosby, niskanen), highest being letang 25:41

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04-27-2013, 04:50 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
boston only 1 forward plays over 19 minutes a game (bergeron), only seidenberg, chara, boychuck play 20+ mins highest being chara at 24:53.

montreal only 1 forward plays over 19 minutes a game (plekanec), only 4 players play over 20+ mins (markov, subban, gorges, diaz (22 games)), highest being 24:14

chicago 2 forwards play 19+ mins a game (kane, toews), 5 players play 20+ mins a game (keith, seabrook, hjalmarsson, oduya, kane) highest being keith at 24:06

pittsburgh 2 forwards play 19+ mins a game (crosby, malkin), 5 players play 20+ mins a game (letang, martin, orpik, crosby, niskanen), highest being letang 25:41
Thanks. Very telling as the big guys aren't overplaying with the exception of a couple of #1 dmen.

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04-27-2013, 05:17 PM
  #161
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Why the hell do the players have to ask? Shouldn't a coach know this?

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04-27-2013, 05:23 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Thanks. Very telling as the big guys aren't overplaying with the exception of a couple of #1 dmen.
and of those players that are playing big minutes, are heavily relied upon on the penalty kill, power play, even strength.

toews gets 1:25 on penalty kill, 2:41 power play, and 15:14 even strength

kane gets 17:05 even strength, 0:00 penalty kill, 2:57 power play

bergeron gets 14:53 even strength, 2:13 penalty kill, 2:08 power play

plekanek gets 14:11 even strength, 2:01 penalty kill, 2:58 power play.

crosby gets 16:02 even strength, 0:41 penalty kill, 4:21 power play.

malkin gets 15:15 even strength, 0:01 penalty kill, 4:31 power play.

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04-27-2013, 05:27 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthock View Post
Why the hell do the players have to ask? Shouldn't a coach know this?
so now coaches need to know exactly what his players body's can withstand without the player saying anything about it.

in a situation that not to many coaches have been through, only 1 or 2 players have been through (and those said players are not go to guys any more considering they are 40+ years old).

fatigue can a lot of the times look like going through the motions and just not trying hard enough (motivation). think of fatigue as a player with a concussion. most cases a player can seem symptom free from a doctors/coaches point of view but he is still getting head aches, dizzyness. but just doesn't tell the coach/doctor he is having those symptoms he will be cleared to play again even though he's just not ready.

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04-27-2013, 08:17 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
so now coaches need to know exactly what his players body's can withstand without the player saying anything about it.

in a situation that not to many coaches have been through, only 1 or 2 players have been through (and those said players are not go to guys any more considering they are 40+ years old).

fatigue can a lot of the times look like going through the motions and just not trying hard enough (motivation). think of fatigue as a player with a concussion. most cases a player can seem symptom free from a doctors/coaches point of view but he is still getting head aches, dizzyness. but just doesn't tell the coach/doctor he is having those symptoms he will be cleared to play again even though he's just not ready.
You should also add from an article that the Sharks go with short, intense practices. Is a protracted, easier practice better? They also spend a lot of time in verbal preparation.

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04-27-2013, 08:20 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
You should also add from an article that the Sharks go with short, intense practices. Is a protracted, easier practice better? They also spend a lot of time in verbal preparation.
How long is a short practice compared to an average practice?

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04-27-2013, 09:26 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
How long is a short practice compared to an average practice?
When I compiled all the info from various articles years ago, the average practice was 40-60min. I didn't get all teams. The max was 90min in Buffalo (when they were going to the conf. finals with a very young team). Boston and Carolina were up there. Currently, TM has been quoted as keeping some practices to as short as 15min. He has never been longer than 60. The Sharks have traditionally allowed players to work on their own beyond practice time which many do.

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04-28-2013, 06:58 AM
  #167
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Can't win is a scenario management has a lot of experience with.

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04-28-2013, 01:23 PM
  #168
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What is TMacs contract status? When is it up?

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04-28-2013, 01:54 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
When I compiled all the info from various articles years ago, the average practice was 40-60min. I didn't get all teams. The max was 90min in Buffalo (when they were going to the conf. finals with a very young team). Boston and Carolina were up there. Currently, TM has been quoted as keeping some practices to as short as 15min. He has never been longer than 60. The Sharks have traditionally allowed players to work on their own beyond practice time which many do.
What? That's barely anything. So you warmup and start to get into the groove and it's over. Is there any point in having one if it's gonna be that short?

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04-28-2013, 02:01 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
What? That's barely anything. So you warmup and start to get into the groove and it's over. Is there any point in having one if it's gonna be that short?
I believe there is some science to suggest that getting the legs working after a game is very good for athletes even if it's for a short time. Something about getting something out of the system. Read something about it, but too lazy to look it up. You also guarantee all players do this and then you can review tapes and strategy.

I doubt Tmac did this very often, but Lady Stanley or someone else would be a better gauge as they go to many many open practices, if not all.

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04-28-2013, 03:40 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
I believe there is some science to suggest that getting the legs working after a game is very good for athletes even if it's for a short time. Something about getting something out of the system. Read something about it, but too lazy to look it up. You also guarantee all players do this and then you can review tapes and strategy.

I doubt Tmac did this very often, but Lady Stanley or someone else would be a better gauge as they go to many many open practices, if not all.
The issue is lactic acid buildup. Any aerobic exercise/sport which causes the body to create more energy than can be supported by immediately inhaled oxygen creates lactic acid. Residual lactic acid decreases performance. A person can help the body to rid itself of lactic acid sooner by a light workout after the performance which required excess. That's why a lot of hockey players take a bit of time on the stationary bike after a game. They shouldn't be going at it so hard as to be repeating the oxygen deprivation they experience during a game. The lactic acid buildup is a cause behind cramps and muscle soreness after an athletic event. I don't think this is what Mafoofoo meant.

I do think that TM is trying to reduce the number of buildup and breakdown cycles on lactic acid.

Although 15min may sound short, many players use the time around practice to do their conditioning, which is mostly strength during the season, not aerobic as the games provide a lot of aerobic. Optimizing performance takes all kinds of input, repetition of skills, strength, stamina, etc. Diet, sleep and general lifestyle are included as well. Part of the coaches job is to optimize all of the factors. I do think TM shortchanges repetition as part of the process; repetition is less necessary for vets but it is still a factor even for them.

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04-28-2013, 11:10 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
The issue is lactic acid buildup. Any aerobic exercise/sport which causes the body to create more energy than can be supported by immediately inhaled oxygen creates lactic acid. Residual lactic acid decreases performance. A person can help the body to rid itself of lactic acid sooner by a light workout after the performance which required excess. That's why a lot of hockey players take a bit of time on the stationary bike after a game. They shouldn't be going at it so hard as to be repeating the oxygen deprivation they experience during a game. The lactic acid buildup is a cause behind cramps and muscle soreness after an athletic event. I don't think this is what Mafoofoo meant.

I do think that TM is trying to reduce the number of buildup and breakdown cycles on lactic acid.

Although 15min may sound short, many players use the time around practice to do their conditioning, which is mostly strength during the season, not aerobic as the games provide a lot of aerobic. Optimizing performance takes all kinds of input, repetition of skills, strength, stamina, etc. Diet, sleep and general lifestyle are included as well. Part of the coaches job is to optimize all of the factors. I do think TM shortchanges repetition as part of the process; repetition is less necessary for vets but it is still a factor even for them.
I can vouch for the effectiveness of a light workout to get the blood flowing and help with recovery. I'd be curious to learn more about how the players train during the season. 82 games is a long time to perform at that level. But they wouldn't make it to the pros if they couldn't handle it, I suppose.

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04-28-2013, 11:21 PM
  #173
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Lactic acid build up is a myth. It is not responsible for soreness.

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04-29-2013, 02:19 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by oyster View Post
I can vouch for the effectiveness of a light workout to get the blood flowing and help with recovery. I'd be curious to learn more about how the players train during the season. 82 games is a long time to perform at that level. But they wouldn't make it to the pros if they couldn't handle it, I suppose.
From comments from several sources, the players work on maintenance during the season and use the off-season, if they choose to do so, to both build muscle and increase stamina.

Around the age of 27 or 28, they generally tend to go into maintenance only mode.

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