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The defence since Markov's return

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Old
03-22-2012, 08:58 AM
  #1
Schwang
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The defence since Markov's return

I know it's going to take Markov some time to get back into game shape, but has anyone else noticed our defence hasn't looked very good since his return? Sure the PK is great, but 5 on 5 they have been getting caught/beat left and right, no big hits, poor coverage, etc.

The guy I've noticed the most is Emelin. Since Markov has been back, Emelin has looked out of place at times, been caught flat footed, and i can't remember the last big hit he's thrown. I wonder if he really hurt himself when he blocked that shot a few games ago?

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03-22-2012, 09:03 AM
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Kriss E
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When has our defense ever looked good this year?
And Emelin is supposedly playing injured.

But no, our defense has not looked worse since Markov has joined.

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03-22-2012, 09:27 AM
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coolasprICE
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Markov is still an asset when playing but no longer the solution. Fans need to accept reality. He is no longer the player he once was. Period.

He will help our PP, and will marginally improve our 5 on 5. Don't expect him to transform it.

He simply will never regain the speed required to be like old-self and will always remain a question mark health-wise.

The sooner our GM (or next GM) realize this, the better we will be prepared moving forward.

As Kriss said - D has been bad all year - the only difference is that you probably had high expectations, thus reality looks more grim than it really is.

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03-22-2012, 09:34 AM
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Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Markov is still an asset when playing but no longer the solution. Fans need to accept reality. He is no longer the player he once was. Period.

He will help our PP, and will marginally improve our 5 on 5. Don't expect him to transform it.

He simply will never regain the speed required to be like old-self and will always remain a question mark health-wise.

The sooner our GM (or next GM) realize this, the better we will be prepared moving forward.

As Kriss said - D has been bad all year - the only difference is that you probably had high expectations, thus reality looks more grim than it really is.
He really doesn't look good out there. I know it's early and folks are saying that he's still finding himself but it seems pretty obvious to me that he's just not the same guy anymore.

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03-22-2012, 09:47 AM
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Emelin is drained. He isn't used to play that many games... give him some time, next year, he'll be dynamite from the first to the last game of the season.

Markov is still not at 100%, you can see it and Gorges has so many bruises that he might not even be able to sleep properly

The new GM (**** yeah) needs to find another Top 4 d-man (good thing is that there is many options this summer) for next year and with a coach who actually knows how to coach, this team should be much better defensively.

Btw, I laughed at anyone who's ready to throw Markov down the drain after 5 games when he didn't play for almost 2 years... The vision is still there, no one on this team can even touch him in that department... the rest will follow. Can't wait for the doubters to eat crow next year.

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03-22-2012, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Emelin is drained. He isn't used to play that many games... give him some time, next year, he'll be dynamite from the first to the last game of the season.
I dont wanna be Captain Buzzkill here, but next year is Emelin's sophmore slump. Doubt he will be dynamite from beginning to end.

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03-22-2012, 10:03 AM
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Joe Cole
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In the end, the Defensemen were the teams weak spot at the beginning of the year. Then injuries, odd signings, and odder trades.

They did not get any better.

In the end you have Weber and Campoli paying real minutes.... I never thought I would pine for Kaberle to be back but.... Weber...brrrrrr

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03-22-2012, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by RaMMuT View Post
I dont wanna be Captain Buzzkill here, but next year is Emelin's sophmore slump. Doubt he will be dynamite from beginning to end.
The guy will be 26 next month and has 6-7 years of pro hockey under the belt. So, no sophomore jinx for him. He just gonna get better.


habs need another top-four-top-5 gritty big d-man who can play 20 minutes a game.

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03-22-2012, 10:08 AM
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Joe Cole
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Originally Posted by RaMMuT View Post
I dont wanna be Captain Buzzkill here, but .....
Too late, Sir Buzzkill.

I agree with those who say the legnth of the season is part of Emelin getting climatized correctly.

He will show up for camp next year in much better condition... if he cares. I think he cares.

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03-22-2012, 10:20 AM
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Et le But
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Our defence sucks with or without Markov. Did it really look any better the one game he was rested?

And Emelin is running on fumes right now. He'd probably have been shut down like Diaz by now if we had any depth back there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
He really doesn't look good out there. I know it's early and folks are saying that he's still finding himself but it seems pretty obvious to me that he's just not the same guy anymore.
Well he's not prime Markov.

But still, I don't know what you can expect from a guy who hasn't played for 2 years. Why do you think so many of us were desperate to get him back out there? This is the perfect opportunity for him to figure things out.

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03-22-2012, 10:21 AM
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Lack of top end ability outside of Subban (/Markov, but he isn't quite back yet) and 0 depth. No **** it sucks.

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03-22-2012, 10:22 AM
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Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Well he's not prime Markov.

But still, I don't know what you can expect from a guy who hasn't played for 2 years. Why do you think so many of us were desperate to get him back out there? This is the perfect opportunity for him to figure things out.
Let him play at the worlds. Give him a chance to get his game together. Personally, I fear that he's toast. He just doesn't look good at all.

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03-22-2012, 10:26 AM
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His biggest assets are his offensive awareness and passing, he's made some sweet passes and had some nice backdoor pinches which have resulted in scoring chances. Emelin has been struggling and it was expected Markov would be rusty so its no surprise he's struggled defensively.

Give him more than 5 games before saying he's not going to be close to the same guy anymore, it'll probably take a few more games before he even gets his conditioning back. Not sure how people expected him to come back and be close to his old self in only 5 games after missing like 2 years...

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Old
03-22-2012, 10:28 AM
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Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
His biggest assets are his offensive awareness and passing, he's made some sweet passes and had some nice backdoor pinches which have resulted in scoring chances. Emelin has been struggling and it was expected Markov would be rusty so its no surprise he's struggled defensively.

Give him more than 5 games before saying he's not going to be close to the same guy anymore, it'll probably take a few more games before he even gets his conditioning back. Not sure how people expected him to come back and be close to his old self in only 5 games after missing like 2 years...
I'm not saying he can't. But... he doesn't look good.

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Old
03-22-2012, 10:36 AM
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He'll have to play a smarter game.

He's getting caught "flat footed" because he always try to intercept the cross ice pass or pinching in the offensive zone resulting in 2 vs 1 and he does't have the speed to cover his own mistakes.

Intercepting the cross ice looks good when you succeed is spectacular but he does't succeed regulary.

Id say he hasnt played well since 2009-2010 season. He wasnt good in the 7 games he played in 2010-2011.

Id say a good summer of training will help.

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03-22-2012, 11:01 AM
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onice
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Some of the comments in this thread are hilarious. Before coming back he played 7 games the previous two and a half years. Pile on top of that he returns towards the end of the year when the whole league is in full gear and he has to adjust to players that have been playing all year long.

I've noticed his timing is off. Markov was never a speed demon so speed was never an essential aspect of his game. Vision, passing and hockey smarts were his strong suits.

If next October/Nov his timing is still off then let's consider it a problem. Before then it's just a player getting into game shape. But there are posters who made claims before his return and are very anxious now to be proven right.

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03-22-2012, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
He really doesn't look good out there. I know it's early and folks are saying that he's still finding himself but it seems pretty obvious to me that he's just not the same guy anymore.
It's not fair at all to judge Markov's play right now and hold it against him (not saying you are).

If he struggles next season then we'll have problems.

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:10 AM
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The team is in last place. It's only natural guys in that position who are worn down and nursing inujuries aren't going to bust their ***** at this point.

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03-22-2012, 11:15 AM
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Our d is soft, not Markov's fault. Switch kaberle with a better shutdown guy and we have a more complete core.

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03-22-2012, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Some of the comments in this thread are hilarious. Before coming back he played 7 games the previous two and a half years. Pile on top of that he returns towards the end of the year when the whole league is in full gear and he has to adjust to players that have been playing all year long.

I've noticed his timing is off. Markov was never a speed demon so speed was never an essential aspect of his game. Vision, passing and hockey smarts were his strong suits.

If next October/Nov his timing is still off then let's consider it a problem. Before then it's just a player getting into game shape. But there are posters who made claims before his return and are very anxious now to be proven right.
I agree with everything you said.

I believe we are the second dumbest fan base in the NHL (just behind Toronto). We have too high expectations and zero patience. We expect Markov to be his stellar self immediately, we expect Price to never give up a bad goal (name me one goalie that never gives up a bad goal), many are hoping for the return of Kovalev, etc... Habs fans have no realism whatsoever.

Lets at the very least give Markov the first 20 games of next year before we start worrying about his performance. I personally don't think he'll ever be an elite D (top 10) in the league again but I think he can still be a solid top 2 on this team.

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03-22-2012, 11:19 AM
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I'll wait until 10 or so games into next year before I judge Markov. Give him the rest of the season and the summer to get back into shape and then see how he does at the start of next year before saying he'll never be the same. He's definitely a heck of a lot better than Campoli though.

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:30 AM
  #22
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Markov's clearly not the player he was, but if he can stay healthy I think he'll improve as he finds his limitations and adapts to them. The way he still is able to sneak in down low will produce points once the other players get used to it. 5-on-5 he was never the answer to our glut of tissue-paper soft d. Weber and sometimes Campoli try not to be weak, but they're just not good enough. Emelin you can see burning out but I think he'll also improve next year.

Right now we have 3 guys we can really rely on next year, a big upside and question mark in Markov (health) a little upside and question mark in Diaz (does he improve?), and a bunch of guys who are negatives to the team with nothing special coming from Hamilton anytime soon. Pretty damn thin.

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03-22-2012, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Markov is still an asset when playing but no longer the solution. Fans need to accept reality. He is no longer the player he once was. Period.

He will help our PP, and will marginally improve our 5 on 5. Don't expect him to transform it.

He simply will never regain the speed required to be like old-self and will always remain a question mark health-wise.

The sooner our GM (or next GM) realize this, the better we will be prepared moving forward.

As Kriss said - D has been bad all year - the only difference is that you probably had high expectations, thus reality looks more grim than it really is.
Though I agree that Markov may never be as good as we was, don't start judging him based on his first 5 games when coming back from injury. He didn't have training camp, he didn't have a summer to prepare, he's rusty. I don't think he'll be a top-10 D but after a summer workout and getting back into it, he'll be good.

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:55 AM
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LOL at people saying Markov is not the player he was. The whole league is playing at near playoff timing and he jumps in missing most of the last 2 years. I was at the game last night and you can tell he is a step behind, but I could also tell he was the most talented player on the ice for either team.

Do not rate Markov now at the end of the season trying to play catch up. Evaluate him next season after camp and 10 games in to see if he has really lost it, I'd bet my house he will prove the naysayers wrong.

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:56 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Canadiens Ghost View Post
I agree with everything you said.

I believe we are the second dumbest fan base in the NHL (just behind Toronto). We have too high expectations and zero patience. We expect Markov to be his stellar self immediately, we expect Price to never give up a bad goal (name me one goalie that never gives up a bad goal), many are hoping for the return of Kovalev, etc... Habs fans have no realism whatsoever.

Lets at the very least give Markov the first 20 games of next year before we start worrying about his performance. I personally don't think he'll ever be an elite D (top 10) in the league again but I think he can still be a solid top 2 on this team.
Bruins fans were too dumb to participate in this poll i guess?

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