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Friedman's thoughts on the Habs

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Old
03-21-2012, 07:47 PM
  #51
Kimota
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
The Canadiens need a private owner like Gillette to run this team. Molson panders to the masses due to the fact that they are trying to promote their product. It was because of Gillette's ownership that Gainey was able to lash out at the "fans" who were abusing Brisebois.

The xenophobic media and fanbase are able to manipulte the team through politics when it is corporately owned. I would love to see a private owner thumb his nose at all of the political whiners and hire the best man for the job.
Your theory would work if the team had been any good under Gillette.

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03-21-2012, 07:49 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Randy Cunneyworth may not be up to coaching an NHL team in such a pressure cooker situation but he did a creditable job in the circumstances. At least the players weren't in revolt against him, as they seemed to be against Guy Carbonneau, who lost control of them in his second season. It was obvious from Day 1 that RC would be replaced by a bilingual coach. After all, this is Montréal, and the atmosphere is reminiscent of an arena in which a partisan crowd agitated by the media votes thumbs up or down on a gladiator's life.
RC did not have enough time behind the bench for players to revolt against him.

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03-22-2012, 05:38 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Your theory would work if the team had been any good under Gillette.
Do a Presidents trophy and a final four finish not count as good in your books??????

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03-22-2012, 06:07 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Do a Presidents trophy and a final four finish not count as good in your books??????
he did that with french/bilingual management.

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Old
03-22-2012, 06:32 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post
he did that with french/bilingual management.
That wasn't my point.

Gainey lashed out at the fans and media when they were unreasonable. He wouldn't have been able to do that with Molson's in charge.

The point is that a private owner can thumb his nose at the xenophobes and by doing so will earn the respect of the players. It is the players after all who go out and win games....not the political whiners. The importance is to keep the circus out of the locker room and to keep the focus on winning.

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Old
03-22-2012, 07:00 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Your theory would work if the team had been any good under Gillette.
Wow!

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Old
03-22-2012, 07:04 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
Let's face it dressing 7 dmen is a tradition in Montreal, he is not the first to do it.
Yeah but prior coaches had a d-man playing some shifts on the 4th line so you didn't have to double Cole or Pacioretty or sit your 4th liners.

Playing Weber 7-8 minutes on the 4th is a better long term option than playing 11 forwards only.

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Old
03-22-2012, 07:11 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
That wasn't my point.

Gainey lashed out at the fans and media when they were unreasonable. He wouldn't have been able to do that with Molson's in charge.

The point is that a private owner can thumb his nose at the xenophobes and by doing so will earn the respect of the players. It is the players after all who go out and win games....not the political whiners. The importance is to keep the circus out of the locker room and to keep the focus on winning.
Not sure where you are going with this. How do you know Gainey wouldn't be his own man even with Molson in charge? And the bashing was directly on a franco-Quebecer.....chances are politics would have nothing to do with Gainey being able to lash or not.

Again, what some posters can't get a grasp on is that no matter how you see it, there will always be "some" politics involve. Now, things evolve. There was a day when you could easily have 12-13 francos on a team. And a bilingual management. Now, I think that the most franco bias, could be able to live with 5-6 francos in the team. But you can't call for politics when the actual fact is that this team has a tradition. And with the lack of local people whether the players or the management, this came as a first in the history of a franchise known for his local attachment. So I really don't see how it's that bad to actually notice it. And hope we can turn this around WITHOUT forgetting that winning is more important than anything else. Yet, some people think that you can achieve both the local representation and the winning record.

I believe that the day you decide to be a Habs fan, you decide to live with everything that means. Call it politics, call it tradition, call it history, call it as you want, but it will always be there.

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03-22-2012, 07:35 AM
  #59
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Cunneyworth absolutely had his legs cut out from under him.

Even if he was given 50 games to prove himself it is near impossible to discipline players when they know you are a lame duck and won't be coaching them long.

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03-22-2012, 07:47 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Cunneyworth absolutely had his legs cut out from under him.

Even if he was given 50 games to prove himself it is near impossible to discipline players when they know you are a lame duck and won't be coaching them long.
That's ********.

We see interim coaches everywhere in sports, quite often they end up as the full time coach after doing well.

It's very easy to discipline guys at this level, you cut their ice time or take them out of the lineup. Players at this level want to play and get their ice time.

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Old
03-22-2012, 08:18 AM
  #61
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I'm not sure how I feel about RC. The thing with Gomez and Campolie sure makes him look bad IMO since both those players put that jersey after.
As a coach, he has his strength but still very raw at adjusting to strategy from other coaches. I personally like the dump and chase, hard forchecking and GRITT he has imposed. In realty, I see him more like an assistant coach but time will tell.

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Old
03-22-2012, 08:53 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
It's very easy to discipline guys at this level, you cut their ice time or take them out of the lineup. Players at this level want to play and get their ice time.
Cunneyworth especially wasn't shy about doing this. Unfortunately picking the wrong guys and shooting himself in the foot, which is a recurring theme for him, but if he could scratch his best defenseman he could scratch anyone.

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:00 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
That's ********.

We see interim coaches everywhere in sports, quite often they end up as the full time coach after doing well.

It's very easy to discipline guys at this level, you cut their ice time or take them out of the lineup. Players at this level want to play and get their ice time.
Intermim coaches don't usually get their legs cut off the way Cunneyworth's were. The guy had absolutely no chance.

Doesn't mean I think he's a great coach, but man we completely screwed him over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Cunneyworth especially wasn't shy about doing this. Unfortunately picking the wrong guys and shooting himself in the foot, which is a recurring theme for him, but if he could scratch his best defenseman he could scratch anyone.
His best defenseman has been a bit of a headcase. It's not like he benched Larry Robinson.

Scratching Subban was controversial but Martin did the same thing. He's a young guy who's got maturity issues. Slice up Cunneyworth all you want but that move could've been made by any number of coaches. They're trying to get a message through to PK and if he's not following along then he's going to get benched. Sometimes that's how coaches get their messages across.

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Old
03-22-2012, 10:07 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'm not a cheap opportunistic basher, so I don't see why I'd start being one now.
I also don't have a vendetta against RC, I think he's done a horrible job and I've brought forth the many reasons why in various threads.

As MM just said, what are the good things he's done really?
Enough. God.

The guy inherited a mess.
Massive injury problems.
Undermined by his own management.
Massive pressure from media.
Rookie NHL coach.

But yeah, YOU expect him to perform like Scott Bowman.

Get real.

In fact he has kept pride in the players, and said more than once that if you wear the Habs jersey, you play hard. And most guys have.

THAT was his job this year, and he's done it very well.

You really are a muppet sometimes.

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Old
03-22-2012, 10:16 AM
  #65
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I think a coach should do more than "get his guys to play hard", especially if you're working hard but so badly you end up sucking, but maybe that's just me.

Just to put things into perspective. The Habs are 15-21-6 under Cunneyworth. This projects to 70 points over 82 games -- the only team this would beat is Columbus.

This entire thing has turned the Habs into the Edmonton Oilers. Let's hope that they don't fall in the same pit of incompetence and/or decide to suck for five years.

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Old
03-22-2012, 10:18 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Not sure where you are going with this. How do you know Gainey wouldn't be his own man even with Molson in charge? And the bashing was directly on a franco-Quebecer.....chances are politics would have nothing to do with Gainey being able to lash or not.

Again, what some posters can't get a grasp on is that no matter how you see it, there will always be "some" politics involve. Now, things evolve. There was a day when you could easily have 12-13 francos on a team. And a bilingual management. Now, I think that the most franco bias, could be able to live with 5-6 francos in the team. But you can't call for politics when the actual fact is that this team has a tradition. And with the lack of local people whether the players or the management, this came as a first in the history of a franchise known for his local attachment. So I really don't see how it's that bad to actually notice it. And hope we can turn this around WITHOUT forgetting that winning is more important than anything else. Yet, some people think that you can achieve both the local representation and the winning record.

I believe that the day you decide to be a Habs fan, you decide to live with everything that means. Call it politics, call it tradition, call it history, call it as you want, but it will always be there.
I'm a habs fan because I was born in Montreal and watched their great french and english players, my heroes, play great hockey from 1968 to 1993. They were thrilling to watch and won cups, at the Forum.

Wasn't aware of the politics, sorry.

But hey, maybe that's just me.

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Old
03-22-2012, 10:25 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I think a coach should do more than "get his guys to play hard", especially if you're working hard but so badly you end up sucking, but maybe that's just me.

Just to put things into perspective. The Habs are 15-21-6 under Cunneyworth. This projects to 70 points over 82 games -- the only team this would beat is Columbus.

This entire thing has turned the Habs into the Edmonton Oilers. Let's hope that they don't fall in the same pit of incompetence and/or decide to suck for five years.
Missed my point. Habs suck this year. They don't have enough good players, for many reasons. RC kept pride, that's all I expected, and he did it. What did you expect, the 70's Habs?

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Old
03-22-2012, 10:27 AM
  #68
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Friedman stinks, his articles have as much truth to them as an Eklund E5

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Old
03-22-2012, 10:45 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Enough. God.

The guy inherited a mess.
Massive injury problems.
Undermined by his own management.
Massive pressure from media.
Rookie NHL coach.

But yeah, YOU expect him to perform like Scott Bowman.

Get real.

In fact he has kept pride in the players, and said more than once that if you wear the Habs jersey, you play hard. And most guys have.

THAT was his job this year, and he's done it very well.

You really are a muppet sometimes.
Again, he was not an outsider during Gainey's 'mess'. He was part of the key management core that build what he inherited.

The three management heads for the better part of the past decade were Gainey, Gauthier (Director of Professional Scouting+Assistant General Manager), and Timmins. There's a reason he was called Gainey's right-hand man by people in the know like Bob McKenzie for example:

Quote:
Bob Gainey comes to the realization that he's no longer up for the day-to-day grind and challenges of being GM of the Montreal Canadiens, so rather than wait until the off-season to make the move, and play out the string between now and then through the trade deadline, he opts to step down now, assume an advisory position and leave the team in the hands of his right-hand man Pierre Gauthier.
http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=309462

I am amazed how Timmins and Gainey could be blamed for any bad moves (rightfully so) and somehow Gauthier can be perceived as some outsider with no hand/responsibility to anything during his previous 7 years of service despite holding not just one but two prominent roles.

What is wrong with wanting change?

EDIT: woops misread


Last edited by Watsatheo: 03-22-2012 at 12:28 PM.
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Old
03-22-2012, 10:56 AM
  #70
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I can't believe people think the owner makes that much of a difference.

I guess Buffalo should've kept their old ownership instead of Terry Pegula?

All the owner does is supply the money. Our GM has the same amount of money to use under Molson as they did under Gillet, it's up to them to use it wisely. I don't know how to tell you guys this, but Gillet didn't make any trades, he didn't sign any players, he didn't tell Gainey how to build a team.

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03-22-2012, 10:59 AM
  #71
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Missed my point. Habs suck this year. They don't have enough good players, for many reasons.
Not anymore, but it wasn't the case earlier and it wasn't the case when RC took over. RC produced a worst-in-NHL type performance and the roster is in no way, shape or form anywhere near that bad.

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:04 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Again, he was not an outsider during Gainey's 'mess'. He was part of the key management core that build what he inherited.

The three management heads for the better part of the past decade were Gainey, Gauthier (Director of Professional Scouting+Assistant General Manager), and Timmins. There's a reason he was called Gainey's right-hand man by people in the know like Bob McKenzie for example:


http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=309462

I am amazed how Timmins and Gainey could be blamed for any bad moves (rightfully so) and somehow Gauthier can be perceived as some outsider with no hand/responsibility to anything during his previous 7 years of service despite holding not just one but two prominent roles.

What is wrong with wanting change?
I thought he was talking about Randy C., not Pierre G? Am I missing something?

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:05 AM
  #73
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I think a coach should do more than "get his guys to play hard", especially if you're working hard but so badly you end up sucking, but maybe that's just me.

Just to put things into perspective. The Habs are 15-21-6 under Cunneyworth. This projects to 70 points over 82 games -- the only team this would beat is Columbus.

This entire thing has turned the Habs into the Edmonton Oilers. Let's hope that they don't fall in the same pit of incompetence and/or decide to suck for five years.
Jacques Martin averaged out to be a 90 point coach for us over his three seasons and we were out of the playoffs with him this year. He wasn't all that great himself man. Let's face facts, this wasn't all that great a team to begin with. And while I don't think RC has done a particularly great job, he was thrown into the deep end of the pool with his arms tied behind his back and told to swim.

He was set up to fail. It's not surprising in the least that this is exactly what's happened.

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:08 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
I can't believe people think the owner makes that much of a difference.

I guess Buffalo should've kept their old ownership instead of Terry Pegula?

All the owner does is supply the money. Our GM has the same amount of money to use under Molson as they did under Gillet, it's up to them to use it wisely. I don't know how to tell you guys this, but Gillet didn't make any trades, he didn't sign any players, he didn't tell Gainey how to build a team.
The owner can make a huge difference. Feaster in Calgary wants to rebuild but his owners are telling him to make the playoffs. Ownership matters man.

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:09 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Again, he was not an outsider during Gainey's 'mess'. He was part of the key management core that build what he inherited.

The three management heads for the better part of the past decade were Gainey, Gauthier (Director of Professional Scouting+Assistant General Manager), and Timmins. There's a reason he was called Gainey's right-hand man by people in the know like Bob McKenzie for example:
I think the poster you're responding to was talking about RC, not PG. Maybe I'm misreading it, but that's what I thought he said.

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