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A draft poll...

View Poll Results: Which do you do armchair GMs?
Draft a franchise center + shift Desharnais to wing 33 17.84%
Draft a franchise winger + keep Desharnais at center 15 8.11%
Doesn't matter - draft BPA 137 74.05%
Voters: 185. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-22-2012, 08:30 AM
  #76
thunderthighs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
So we'd be better off with say Viktor Kozlov than say Thomas Plekanec?

Size at center is massively overrated. San Jose had 445lbs of top 2 centers and constantly choked at playoff time. Last year Boston won with guys 185-190lbs while Vancouver had 6'2" 200+lbs guys.
Why are you talking about choking? Are you saying all big centers choke?? Or are you calling Grigorenko a playoff choker before he's even played an NHL game?

Also the bruins did have guys like Lucic punishing Vancouver.

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:06 AM
  #77
gillyguzzler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
Well hopefully you're wrong.

And Gionta at his best had 89 points, those are 1st line numbers.
For one year... the rest of his career, he was a typical 2nd liner.

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03-22-2012, 09:09 AM
  #78
MathMan
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Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
For one year... the rest of his career, he was a typical 2nd liner.
Typical second-liners don't score 29 goals, let alone 28 in 61 (that's a 37-goal pace over a full season).

Even with his slow season this year, Gionta has scored goals at a 30-goal clip over the duration of his Habs career.

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:14 AM
  #79
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderthighs View Post
Why are you talking about choking? Are you saying all big centers choke?? Or are you calling Grigorenko a playoff choker before he's even played an NHL game?

Also the bruins did have guys like Lucic punishing Vancouver.
I'm saying size at center has very little to do with winning at the NHL level.

Our biggest issue prior to this year was size on the wings and injuries(Markov Pacioretty etc).

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:16 AM
  #80
Ginu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
Plekanec, Eller and Desharnais - all already NHLers

Gallaguer - Prospect Grade: 7.5 C - should be an NHLer in two years
Kristo - Prospect Grade: 7.5 C - needs at least one year in Hamilton
Leblanc - Prospect Grade: 7.5 B - probable 3rd liner. Will probably never be an big impact player.

And those are your big prospects?

Leblanc might make the team next year based on our pitance of wingers... that's it!
And we won't win the Cup with those three as our centers. If we're not going to solve that from within our system, please tell me where we'll address this.

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:18 AM
  #81
FF de Mars
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Obviously like everybody I want a forward. But BPA all the way. If Timmins think Murray or Dumba will end up being the best player of the draft, go for it !

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:20 AM
  #82
gillyguzzler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
And we won't win the Cup with those three as our centers. If we're not going to solve that from within our system, please tell me where we'll address this.
But we will with Gallaguer, Leblanc and Kristo? Not one of them is even ready for the NHL.

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:20 AM
  #83
Erik Estrada
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BFA unless there's a can't miss franchise D.

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:28 AM
  #84
Ginu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
But we will with Gallaguer, Leblanc and Kristo? Not one of them is even ready for the NHL.
And Forsberg and these wingers you speak of are? When you build a team, you build in this order:

1) Goaltender
2) Defense
3) Centers

You fill this out in order. Centers > wingers.

/post

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:34 AM
  #85
MathMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
And Forsberg and these wingers you speak of are? When you build a team, you build in this order:
1) Defense
2) Centers
3) Wingers
4) Goaltenders

Especially at the draft table since goaltenders are so difficult to predict. Montreal is good enough with drafting and goalies that they can sort of get away with drafting a goalie with the fifth overall pick, but generally, it's a crapshoot.

The problem is that forwards are also a lot less risky than defensemen, so picking a center over a defenseman can have more expected value because of less risk.

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:35 AM
  #86
gillyguzzler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
And Forsberg and these wingers you speak of are? When you build a team, you build in this order:

1) Goaltender
2) Defense
3) Centers

You fill this out in order. Centers > wingers.

/post
WTF...

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:46 AM
  #87
Ginu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
WTF...
At this point, I don't even understand your argument.

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:46 AM
  #88
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
And we won't win the Cup with those three as our centers. If we're not going to solve that from within our system, please tell me where we'll address this.
You don't know that for a fact. Who would have thought Boston would win with Krejci as #1 and Bergeron as #2.

That doesn't mean you don't draft a better center if you can get it, but it's nowhere near a fatal flaw, though i wouldn't mind getting another to give us more depth and flexibility like Gaustad(no more than 2 mil) or Stoll(good reclamation project, can play C or W).

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:48 AM
  #89
Ginu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
You don't know that for a fact. Who would have thought Boston would win with Krejci as #1 and Bergeron as #2.

That doesn't mean you don't draft a better center if you can get it, but it's nowhere near a fatal flaw, though i wouldn't mind getting another to give us more depth and flexibility like Gaustad(no more than 2 mil) or Stoll(good reclamation project, can play C or W).
Boston's center core is FAR superior to ours. They have at least 6-7 guys that can play center on the top 3 lines. We have three and none are first line material. Bergeron is an elite player.

Not to mention that Boston had the greatest goaltending performance in 50 years last year, an elite defenseman in Chara and strong wingers on all 4 lines. You can't just pick out the centers from their team and say, hey you don't need centers. We don't have the wingers to match. It's easier to address our center position than twice the number of players on the wings. You build center before wing.

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:49 AM
  #90
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
And Forsberg and these wingers you speak of are? When you build a team, you build in this order:

1) Goaltender
2) Defense
3) Centers

You fill this out in order. Centers > wingers.

/post
There is no specific order that you need to build a team with.

Boston won with goaltending and "truculence" and grit.

Detroit won with skill all over the lineup, mediocre goaltending.

Chicago won with skill and a bit of truculence, pretty weak goaltending.

Pittsburgh won with skill up the middle, deep defense and pretty good goaltending.

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:54 AM
  #91
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
Boston's center core is FAR superior to ours. They have at least 6-7 guys that can play center on the top 3 lines. We have three and none are first line material. Bergeron is an elite player.

Not to mention that Boston had the greatest goaltending performance in 50 years last year, an elite defenseman in Chara and strong wingers on all 4 lines. You can't just pick out the centers from their team and say, hey you don't need centers. We don't have the wingers to match. It's easier to address our center position than twice the number of players on the wings. You build center before wing.
They have more depth, that can be addressed pretty easily.

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Old
03-22-2012, 09:56 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
But we will with Gallaguer, Leblanc and Kristo? Not one of them is even ready for the NHL.
We have at least one young 1st line winger

Max Pac

We have no young 1st line centre

Centre is way harder to acquire as well

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Old
03-22-2012, 10:05 AM
  #93
Joe Cole
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I say draft a big Center.

If he turns out, great. Finally the Habs can have some large pivots.

At that point, choose which of the small centers you will keep and deal the others.

The Golden Rule (as per humble me): Only 1 small center MAX per team, if you want to win

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Old
03-22-2012, 10:18 AM
  #94
thunderthighs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
There is no specific order that you need to build a team with.

Boston won with goaltending and "truculence" and grit.

Detroit won with skill all over the lineup, mediocre goaltending.

Chicago won with skill and a bit of truculence, pretty weak goaltending.

Pittsburgh won with skill up the middle, deep defense and pretty good goaltending.
All these teams were deep at the center position...

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Old
03-22-2012, 10:22 AM
  #95
Habs 4 Life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderthighs View Post
All these teams were deep at the center position...
Exactly some need to realize that our core up the middle isn't strong enough. Even with Krejci and Bergeron the Bruins had Kelly at # 3 and a possibility of playing Seguin there. Those teams are all deep and it's important come playoff time

BPA for sure but I would prefer Grigorenko if available

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03-22-2012, 10:29 AM
  #96
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Not a totally fair comparison. The Gomez deal is worse when you factor cap implications (not only Gomez but also getting a top 4 D on entry-level) which were non-existent for the Roy trade.

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:00 AM
  #97
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Why would we shift Desharnais to the wing if we draft a franchise center?

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:31 AM
  #98
Jerk Store
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I don't get the Grigorenko love, guys. Seems like he gained a little following here and now people call for him without knowing why. In my opinion you can make a better pick where you will be slotted. Grigorenko has been putting up points against weaker teams and isn't consistent whatsoever.

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:36 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
1) Defense
2) Centers
3) Wingers
4) Goaltenders

Especially at the draft table since goaltenders are so difficult to predict. Montreal is good enough with drafting and goalies that they can sort of get away with drafting a goalie with the fifth overall pick, but generally, it's a crapshoot.

The problem is that forwards are also a lot less risky than defensemen, so picking a center over a defenseman can have more expected value because of less risk.
I think this right, but I would note that you make an exception for players you project as being potentially truly elite. I think both MA Fleury and Price were well worth their high picks, Tom Barasso too, to back a ways. In the top 5, you really have to focus on the individual you are going to draft, regardless of position and overall team concept. The difference between a hit and a miss is so enormous for the franchise with those picks. Not to say the Habs don't have an OBVIOUS need to try and get a true top-line center after decades without out one, but an organizational need doesn't make a good prospect into a great one. With a lottery pick, I think you have to try and find a great player first and foremost.

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:47 AM
  #100
Ginu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strik_IX View Post
Why would we shift Desharnais to the wing if we draft a franchise center?
When that center comes up, we can shift the most versatile center, Desharnais, to the wing. The new guy, Pleks and Eller makes a great top 3 while Desharnais adds center depth as well whenever one of those 3 guys is injured. You do that and you start competing. A line of Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Desharnais is a great 1st line. He'll still be setting up two goal scorers. And it gives us a power forward, Cole, to play with Plekanec.

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