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2008 draft , what could have been

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Old
03-22-2012, 12:51 AM
  #26
damacles1156
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Originally Posted by ru4reals View Post
Actually I thought we did rather well in 2003! Carter at 11, Brown at 13, and Richards at 24!
That is soooooo Ironic, If you think about it Dean Lombardi is just correcting DT mistakes......


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03-22-2012, 12:54 AM
  #27
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Lewis is what he is, not like he is a total bust but also why you shouldn't draft projected role players with first round picks.

I wonder what kind of player Lewis would have developed into if he had spent 4 years in college instead of opting for major junior and then 3 years in Manchester.

Joey Ryan seems like another Teubert. A kid who was physically stronger and further along than his peers but just never improved and was passed over. Looks like a career ECHL'er.

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03-22-2012, 12:58 AM
  #28
Ziggy Stardust
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The Kings dropping the ball in 2003 and 2004 is what stands out to me. Not really torn apart over not selecting Alzner over Hickey. While he's a solid defensive dman, there is nothing special about Alzner that the Kings can't find any other year via free agency, plus I much prefer Mitchell and Scuderi over him.

You could also consider the 2001 draft as yet another one that the Kings screwed up, with two first round picks in the draft, not a single one would ever appear in a game in a Kings uniform. Thankfully they would draft their best player in the 2nd round when they selected Michael Cammalleri and didn't do too bad drafting Cristobal Huet in the 7th round.

The one thing I never liked about Taylor is that he sat on his hands at the draft and was never aggressive in moving up. He never moved up, not once.

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03-22-2012, 01:30 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ru4reals View Post
Actually I thought we did rather well in 2003! Carter at 11, Brown at 13, and Richards at 24!
All good things come to those that wait. So when are we getting Corey Perry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The one thing I never liked about Taylor is that he sat on his hands at the draft and was never aggressive in moving up. He never moved up, not once.
Which to me kind of says that they never did their homework well enough to determine where in their minds the gaps of talent in the draft existed. By that I mean these are what we think are the top say 10, 20, 30, or 40 players in the draft (pick whatever number you want) and if one of these guys is available and we are picking slightly below where we expect him to go, we will move up to get him.

Dean and his scouts obviously think a lot of Forbort and did some homework there. Now he may not pan out, but you know they didn't move up to get him on just a whim.


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Old
03-22-2012, 01:35 AM
  #30
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Lombardi probably still would have drafted Doughty.
This.

He would have called TB to see if they wanted to trade up. If they wouldn't, just as with Hickey, he would have taken the guy he wanted all along regardless of the draft position.

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03-22-2012, 02:05 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ru4reals View Post
Actually I thought we did rather well in 2003! Carter at 11, Brown at 13, and Richards at 24!
still crazy to see this

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03-22-2012, 03:43 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The Kings dropping the ball in 2003 and 2004 is what stands out to me. Not really torn apart over not selecting Alzner over Hickey. While he's a solid defensive dman, there is nothing special about Alzner that the Kings can't find any other year via free agency, plus I much prefer Mitchell and Scuderi over him.

You could also consider the 2001 draft as yet another one that the Kings screwed up, with two first round picks in the draft, not a single one would ever appear in a game in a Kings uniform. Thankfully they would draft their best player in the 2nd round when they selected Michael Cammalleri and didn't do too bad drafting Cristobal Huet in the 7th round.

The one thing I never liked about Taylor is that he sat on his hands at the draft and was never aggressive in moving up. He never moved up, not once.
Its easy as hell to sit back and say people dropped the ball years later. But I'm pretty sure EVERY team has drafts where they dropped the ball. When you can get guys like Luc Robitaille in the 7th round, that's how you know drafting really is a crap shoot. And as for 2001, look 3 picks before our 1st pick and Knyazev never played in the NHL nor did Adam Munro or Adrian Foster right before our 30th overall pick. Was our scouting back then the greatest? No. Were we the only team with bad scouts? No. Point being is that it's hard to really sit back and say they ****ed up unless it's like the scenario below.

My only thing is that Dean basically only drafted Teubert for his truculence and physicality. In the first round, you can't do that. If you look at Forbort, he's as much of a project as Teubert probably coming out of their drafts but Forbort's potential is pretty high whereas Teubert's never really was. His D has ALWAYS been suspect and you can't pick a guy that early on just because he hits hard and hope you can turn him in to a great shutdown guy. Forbort has all the tools and is just one by one packing them in the tool box slowly over time whereas Teubert was just a tool (a hammer to be more exact).

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03-22-2012, 03:44 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by redcard View Post
Lombardi probably still would have drafted Doughty.
I don't think so, I remember an interview with Luc where he was praying for a shot to get Stamkos.

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03-22-2012, 04:01 AM
  #34
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**** hindsight.

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03-22-2012, 04:45 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by HookKing View Post
I don't think so, I remember an interview with Luc where he was praying for a shot to get Stamkos.
I fail to see how that's relevant, I didn't say Luc would have drafted Doughty, I said Lombardi would have.

Everybody knew Stamkos was talented, Lombardi knew Stamkos was talented, 30 General managers knew Stamkos was talented. But Lombardi wanted a franchise defensemen, not a franchise center. He viewed them as close enough in skill that he would have been quite comfortable passing on Stamkos.

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03-22-2012, 10:55 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
Probably would've taken Brent Burns or Seabrook 13th.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Dean has never taken a winger in the first round, even in years where he had multiple first rounders, so it's safe to say Brown would not have been drafted. And Perry and Eriksson would not have been given a serious look with either of the two later picks because they would not be valued properly.

Just guessing..

#12- Seabrook

Then with the two later picks, probably another d-man like Danny Richmond, Shawn Belle or Kevin Klein and then one of POS or Danny Fristche who both were centers projected as first round picks. Lombardi is not exactly a wizard when it comes to first round picks, but I am pretty confident in saying the Kings would have drafted one of Bergeron, Weber or Carle with that second round pick instead of Pushkarev who was anything but a Lombardi style player.

The massive miss at the 2003 draft set this franchise back a good 5-7 years and cost Taylor his job.

Both you guys are probably right but it's still fun to think about especially with the 2nd and 3rd picks.

I'm wondering if DL would maybe have tried to acquire yet another pick in the 1st and/or 2nd.

- R
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03-22-2012, 11:39 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Seventyx7 View Post
I remember being so mad that we won that last game of the season; it was so unnecessary and lost us the 1st overall pick.

But I think it worked out just fine in the end.

Same. My plan was Stamkos and Hedman. Myers would have been my pick @ 12 and I was yelling at the TV after the trades. I was none too happy about taking Simmonds so high as well; glad I was wrong on that one.

Seriously though, Lombardi HAS GOT to STOP trading our first round picks.

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03-22-2012, 11:46 AM
  #38
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Same. My plan was Stamkos and Hedman. Myers would have been my pick @ 12 and I was yelling at the TV after the trades. I was none too happy about taking Simmonds so high as well; glad I was wrong on that one.

Seriously though, Lombardi HAS GOT to STOP trading our first round picks.
If Lombardi keeps trading that pick for players like Carter, I don't care how many he trades.

Proven NHL talent.....Yes please.

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03-22-2012, 12:03 PM
  #39
Jason Lewis
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I dunno 2008.....later rounds we took

Voynov
Czarnik
Andrew Campbell
Loktionov
Azevedo

that's pretty ****ing good late round drafting.

2 of those guys will be in the NHL, Campbell is getting some really good looks, and both Czarnik and Azevedo are developing really well.

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03-22-2012, 12:27 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by redcard View Post
I fail to see how that's relevant, I didn't say Luc would have drafted Doughty, I said Lombardi would have.

Everybody knew Stamkos was talented, Lombardi knew Stamkos was talented, 30 General managers knew Stamkos was talented. But Lombardi wanted a franchise defensemen, not a franchise center. He viewed them as close enough in skill that he would have been quite comfortable passing on Stamkos.
It's very relevant. Luc was employed by the Kings -- no way he's that emphatic about Stamkos without knowing what Lombardi wants to do.

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03-22-2012, 02:10 PM
  #41
Ziggy Stardust
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
Its easy as hell to sit back and say people dropped the ball years later. But I'm pretty sure EVERY team has drafts where they dropped the ball. When you can get guys like Luc Robitaille in the 7th round, that's how you know drafting really is a crap shoot. And as for 2001, look 3 picks before our 1st pick and Knyazev never played in the NHL nor did Adam Munro or Adrian Foster right before our 30th overall pick. Was our scouting back then the greatest? No. Were we the only team with bad scouts? No. Point being is that it's hard to really sit back and say they ****ed up unless it's like the scenario below.

My only thing is that Dean basically only drafted Teubert for his truculence and physicality. In the first round, you can't do that. If you look at Forbort, he's as much of a project as Teubert probably coming out of their drafts but Forbort's potential is pretty high whereas Teubert's never really was. His D has ALWAYS been suspect and you can't pick a guy that early on just because he hits hard and hope you can turn him in to a great shutdown guy. Forbort has all the tools and is just one by one packing them in the tool box slowly over time whereas Teubert was just a tool (a hammer to be more exact).
I take more of an issue with the organization taking on so many projects in the early parts of the draft. Both Karlsson and Steckel were considered projects, Brian Boyle was a project.

The Kings rarely ever selected any CHL prospects under Dave Taylor. They were heavily in favor of collegiate players and Europeans, and I know the reason for this. The organization, being as cheap as they are, preferred to take as much time as possible to sign prospects, and they didn't have any threat of facing a two year deadline to sign any collegiate or European prospects.

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Old
03-22-2012, 02:27 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by HookKing View Post
It's very relevant. Luc was employed by the Kings -- no way he's that emphatic about Stamkos without knowing what Lombardi wants to do.
What? Everyone in hockey was emphatic about Stamkos. Everyone on this board was praying for a shot to get Stamkos, none of us are employed by the Kings.

The 2007-2008 Kings played the worst defense I've ever seen any Kings team play. We had our potential franchise center in Kopitar. Lombardi preached for years that he wanted to build from the net out. He was not going to pass on an opportunity to draft a franchise defensemen just because Doughty was only almost as good as Stamkos. Luc did not have inside knowledge, and if he did he would not have been speaking about it publicly. Luc also has zero effect on who Lombardi drafts.

Even if we had the first overall pick in 2008, Doughty would still be a King.

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03-22-2012, 02:33 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
If Lombardi keeps trading that pick for players like Carter, I don't care how many he trades.

Proven NHL talent.....Yes please.
Penner?

And Johnson was enough; the 1st was an overpayment.

Quick is going to need to be paid soon. So adding more 5 million dollar, long-term contracts, is going to be pretty hard. Finding scoring wingers on the cheap is best done through done the draft: Yes, we have Tofolli, odds are still higher we find those talents in the 1st.

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03-22-2012, 05:53 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
I still think if Hickey starts getting NHL time next season he will eventually be better then Alzner.

He has a LOT better of a skill set.
This is perfectly true.

Hickey is an NHL caliber Dman with better than average talent and when he gets his shot wherever that might be I bet he eventually sticks and has a pretty good career. He may not be a top pairing guy but he has the ability to be a good 3/4 pmd.

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03-22-2012, 05:55 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by redcard View Post
What? Everyone in hockey was emphatic about Stamkos. Everyone on this board was praying for a shot to get Stamkos, none of us are employed by the Kings.

The 2007-2008 Kings played the worst defense I've ever seen any Kings team play. We had our potential franchise center in Kopitar. Lombardi preached for years that he wanted to build from the net out. He was not going to pass on an opportunity to draft a franchise defensemen just because Doughty was only almost as good as Stamkos. Luc did not have inside knowledge, and if he did he would not have been speaking about it publicly. Luc also has zero effect on who Lombardi drafts.

Even if we had the first overall pick in 2008, Doughty would still be a King.
I wanted Doughty and several NHL pundits called it a coin toss at the time of the draft between he and Stamkos.

I still would take DD today.

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03-22-2012, 06:05 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by redcard View Post
What? Everyone in hockey was emphatic about Stamkos. Everyone on this board was praying for a shot to get Stamkos, none of us are employed by the Kings.

The 2007-2008 Kings played the worst defense I've ever seen any Kings team play. We had our potential franchise center in Kopitar. Lombardi preached for years that he wanted to build from the net out. He was not going to pass on an opportunity to draft a franchise defensemen just because Doughty was only almost as good as Stamkos. Luc did not have inside knowledge, and if he did he would not have been speaking about it publicly. Luc also has zero effect on who Lombardi drafts.

Even if we had the first overall pick in 2008, Doughty would still be a King.
Not a chance. Stamkos would have been selected -- easily. Don't forget DL already had a drafted franchise dman -- remember? If you think an executive in any business is telling the media something different from the boss you know nothing about how businesses work.

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03-22-2012, 06:22 PM
  #47
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It's not hindsight to say what LA would have done with the #1 pick. The point of
my orginal post was that LA WOULD have had the #1 under the current
rules , but being tied with TB for a draft lottery pick they BOTH should have
had a 33% shot at #1 instead of the 48/18 split.

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Old
03-22-2012, 07:22 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by HookKing View Post
Not a chance. Stamkos would have been selected -- easily. Don't forget DL already had a drafted franchise dman -- remember? If you think an executive in any business is telling the media something different from the boss you know nothing about how businesses work.
I'm with Tonelli Dean was going to take him no matter what.

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03-22-2012, 07:31 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The Kings dropping the ball in 2003 and 2004 is what stands out to me. Not really torn apart over not selecting Alzner over Hickey. While he's a solid defensive dman, there is nothing special about Alzner that the Kings can't find any other year via free agency, plus I much prefer Mitchell and Scuderi over him.

You could also consider the 2001 draft as yet another one that the Kings screwed up, with two first round picks in the draft, not a single one would ever appear in a game in a Kings uniform. Thankfully they would draft their best player in the 2nd round when they selected Michael Cammalleri and didn't do too bad drafting Cristobal Huet in the 7th round.

The one thing I never liked about Taylor is that he sat on his hands at the draft and was never aggressive in moving up. He never moved up, not once.
Remember the confused look and everyones faces when Taylor had to call timeout during the draft [dont remember what year]? This was in the first round if I remember. It was like the entire staff was given a pop quiz nobody was prepared for. How the F dont you know who you're going to draft with your pick?


Last edited by kingsfan28: 03-22-2012 at 07:38 PM.
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Old
03-22-2012, 07:36 PM
  #50
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Remember the confused look and everyones faces when Taylor had to call timeout during the draft. This was in the first round if I remember. It was like the entire staff was given a pop quiz nobody was prepared for. How the F dont you know who you're going to draft with your pick?
Anyone remember which draft that was?

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