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University/College Questions Part II (incl. protest discussion)

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Old
03-22-2012, 08:08 PM
  #1026
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Originally Posted by Turtleneck Plek View Post
Once again, I didn't say there weren't any arguments, I just said that many pro-hike people did not use those arguments; they hide behind stereotypical quips about students instead. Obviously, my comment was not directed at you since you are able to hold a discussion about this without telling me to stop whining because I have an iPhone.
You can also add the nut-cruncher of "Quebec's tuition is already lower than X."

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03-22-2012, 08:09 PM
  #1027
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I didn't say people have said that about the past. However, that has been a prevalent argument, even from the mouth of our dear Charest. "We need these tuition hikes to continue a high level of quality education" has been thrown around in just about every article I have read about this.

I don't think the students need to pay their fair share, but that is my opinion. I support a society that puts the development of young people and their education at an utmost priority with regards to social/public policy.
tax payers then ?

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03-22-2012, 08:09 PM
  #1028
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
well, I dont think you understand how making sacrifices for our own future works, so guess we're even.
I think that would be extremely crass of you.

I will be able to put myself through undergrad and graduate school with no debt, all on my own money.

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03-22-2012, 08:10 PM
  #1029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I didn't say people have said that about the past. However, that has been a prevalent argument, even from the mouth of our dear Charest. "We need these tuition hikes to continue a high level of quality education" has been thrown around in just about every article I have read about this.
I don't see anything controversial about the statement. Quebec has some pretty good schools with McGill, Laval...to maintain a quality education, you need funds, it's no longer feasible for the government to continue to pay the INCREASING costs of education. Because of inflation we now pay less technical for our education that people have before us. Costs rise, tuition; a reasonable increase is necessary and I find the increase very reasonable and still very affordable.

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03-22-2012, 08:11 PM
  #1030
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
tax payers then ?
I have already addressed this false-dichotomy between tuition and taxes.

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03-22-2012, 08:11 PM
  #1031
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I think rate hikes are a good thing - higher cost to education means more willingness to get your money's worth.

Lower absenteeism and failure rates.

In the mean time, if any of you kiddies are looking to make a few extra bucks, I got some shoes that need some spitshinin' and a bush that needs a trimmin'

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03-22-2012, 08:11 PM
  #1032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtleneck Plek View Post
Once again, I didn't say there weren't any arguments, I just said that many pro-hike people did not use those arguments; they hide behind stereotypical quips about students instead. Obviously, my comment was not directed at you since you are able to hold a discussion about this without telling me to stop whining because I have an iPhone.
People use these arguments because the major debate is "how will I pay for this?". At concordia, they have flyers about protest saying "I guess no masters for me". "How will I pay for this after my rent?". If people use and promote that debate, it's only normal that will be the discussion. The majority of the discussion is not about how effective the system is, or the term. It's about students being unable to pay tuition. I'm not saying you or others in this thread have said it. Just be aware that at school, they promote this line of thinking.

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03-22-2012, 08:12 PM
  #1033
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Everything will be ok... because...

- keeping large campuses and buildings running and maintained
- paying quality profs and support staff
- and attempting to stay state-of-the art in a rapidly evolving tech society

does not cost much money at all.

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news...ces-bankruptcy

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03-22-2012, 08:13 PM
  #1034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I don't see anything controversial about the statement. Quebec has some pretty good schools with McGill, Laval...to maintain a quality education, you need funds, it's no longer feasible for the government to continue to pay the INCREASING costs of education. Because of inflation we now pay less technical for our education that people have before us. Costs rise, tuition; a reasonable increase is necessary and I find the increase very reasonable and still very affordable.
I don't think we are going to agree, but it is more of a personal manner. I think it is perfectly feasible if the government actually mandated to achieve that goal.

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03-22-2012, 08:13 PM
  #1035
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USA style tuition still have public school that cost way less than our university !

see by yourself
http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76
I dont understand thoses numbers
what does this means?



And dont forget that tax return will be higher...

I used to work while been at university
and had about 1500/2000 in tax return. with higher tuition fee. that equals higher tax return

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03-22-2012, 08:14 PM
  #1036
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I think that would be extremely crass of you.

I will be able to put myself through undergrad and graduate school with no debt, all on my own money.
good on you, must have a really cheap rent and access to a lot of free stuff I guess (like food lets say)...

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03-22-2012, 08:16 PM
  #1037
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I honestly would rather people pay more but they revise the school system. I think it is essential to help students more for internships, opportunities and so on. I dislike the cegep system because you leave with little tangible skills to join the workforce on a pre-university program. I find it would be more effective to aid students by providing them more opportunity to have more competitive jobs and earn their keep.

I didn't do cegep and don't regret it, despite it being like 100-150$ a semester for full time students. It provides me with little help on job market and in terms of aiding me to be self-reliant.

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03-22-2012, 08:17 PM
  #1038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
Everything will be ok... because...

- keeping large campuses and buildings running and maintained
- paying quality profs and support staff
- and attempting to stay state-of-the art in a rapidly evolving tech society

does not cost much money at all.

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news...ces-bankruptcy
I'm more scared about this than a raise for education.

lets freeze tuition fees and then... Canada is for sold
salaries are cut by 25-30% with no jobs for youngs.

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03-22-2012, 08:18 PM
  #1039
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good on you, must have a really cheap rent and access to a lot of free stuff I guess (like food lets say)...
5 room mates and Midnight Kitchen FTW.

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03-22-2012, 08:18 PM
  #1040
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Kind of afraid to write long message as this thread is over 1000 posts.

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03-22-2012, 08:19 PM
  #1041
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I have already addressed this false-dichotomy between tuition and taxes.
I see, no one will pay... hey! maybe they should export this revolutionnary it will pay itself idea to other fields, like in healthcare for example ?

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03-22-2012, 08:19 PM
  #1042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
Everything will be ok... because...

- keeping large campuses and buildings running and maintained
- paying quality profs and support staff
- and attempting to stay state-of-the art in a rapidly evolving tech society

does not cost much money at all.

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news...ces-bankruptcy
So Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Brazil, Argentina etc. are all bankrupt? or countries with low tuition like France and Germany ?

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03-22-2012, 08:20 PM
  #1043
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
good on you, must have a really cheap rent and access to a lot of free stuff I guess (like food lets say)...
ending education with debt isnt dramatic. Its totally normal.

some people might get penalized for real. but most of them can deal with the raise by sacrificing useless spend

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03-22-2012, 08:20 PM
  #1044
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
I see, no one will pay... hey! maybe they should export this revolutionnary it will pay itself idea to other fields, like in healthcare for example ?
Like I said, a government's expenditures are highly variable and complex. To take one portion of it's budget and create a zero-sum situation is kind of dramatic.

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Old
03-22-2012, 08:23 PM
  #1045
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Does anyone have any evidence that the quality of education has decreased in Quebec the last 30 years because tuition rates have remained stagnant?

I keep hearing people make this argument, but I haven't seen any actual evidence to support it.

If this argument is true, then Quebec's quality of education in the last 30 years should have substantially gone down.
I don't think it had, personally. The best thing is that we maintained educational quality while freezing tuition.

Free university education would cost ~$700M provincewide (on top of what we already pay for higher education)...

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03-22-2012, 08:24 PM
  #1046
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Like I said, a government's expenditures are highly variable and complex. To take one portion of it's budget and create a zero-sum situation is kind of dramatic.
well yeah... think is, you'd like the Govt to cut elsewhere for YOUR future...

how about YOU make sacrifices for your own future ?

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03-22-2012, 08:24 PM
  #1047
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Originally Posted by Mathradio View Post
I don't think it had, personally. The best thing is that we maintained educational quality while freezing tuition.

Free university education would cost ~$700M provincewide (on top of what we already pay for higher education)...
I'd never want free university.

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03-22-2012, 08:25 PM
  #1048
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Just the other day I saw a student throw what I would say was a better part of 4 inches of his Subway sandwich into the garbage.

I took that sandwich out of the garbage and approached him. I told him if he's going to protest and act like a spoiled sob he's going to finish this sandwich in front of me.

While watching him eat, the kids iphone must of have beeped and clicked at least 50 times. The kid even had the nerve to try to pull it out while eating. I advised unless he wants to eat his iphone he should keep it in his pocket.

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Old
03-22-2012, 08:26 PM
  #1049
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Originally Posted by Souvenirs View Post
So Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Brazil, Argentina etc. are all bankrupt? or countries with low tuition like France and Germany ?
they have the populations to pay taxes

We have a large territory with poor number of populations.
It doesnt help.
concentrate all 7-8 millions around montreal and everything would cost less.

in sweden
income tax is about 48%
and tax on products is around 25%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden

they have service but they are heavilty taxed

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03-22-2012, 08:27 PM
  #1050
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
well yeah... think is, you'd like the Govt to cut elsewhere for YOUR future...

how about YOU make sacrifices for your own future ?
Is there something inherently wrong with having a perception of a state that places its students as a fundamental priority to the development of a well-ordered society?

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