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Old
03-22-2012, 10:50 PM
  #101
Ducks DVM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
Every ****ing FA signs with a hook. Holy ****!

Richards wanted money, Kaberle wanted money, Bryzgalov wanted money, Leino wanted money, Wisniewski wanted money, Gagne wanted money, Upshall wanted money, Ehrhoff wanted money, Fleischmann wanted money, Jovanovski wanted money, Connolly wanted money, Cole wanted money, Ward wanted money, etc.

I'm ****ing glad our GM doesn't waste his cap space by overspending on UFA.
Really? Are you honestly this dense or are you just in difficult mode?

Scotty signed here for less than market value so he could win with his brother. Koivu signed (and re-signed) here to play with Selanne. Selanne re-signed here to try to reclaim his career and because he had a history with the team, then has re-signed out of loyalty. That's what hooks are - things that get a player to sign for something OTHER than money.

Hossa signed with Detroit at under market value to win, ditto Vokoun with the Caps. These are hooks too.

Anaheim doesn't get free agents who want to be here to WIN. And the team probably learned its lesson overpaying with Bertuzzi and Schneider. But there's minimal evidence to support any contention that free agents WANT to come here.

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Old
03-22-2012, 10:56 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Really? Are you honestly this dense or are you just in difficult mode?

Scotty signed here for less than market value so he could win with his brother. Koivu signed (and re-signed) here to play with Selanne. Selanne re-signed here to try to reclaim his career and because he had a history with the team, then has re-signed out of loyalty. That's what hooks are - things that get a player to sign for something OTHER than money.

Hossa signed with Detroit at under market value to win, ditto Vokoun with the Caps. These are hooks too.

Anaheim doesn't get free agents who want to be here to WIN. And the team probably learned its lesson overpaying with Bertuzzi and Schneider. But there's minimal evidence to support any contention that free agents WANT to come here.
OK... Hooks are players signing with a team without money being the main factor. So we like hooks! Would Selanne, Koivu, Beauchemin, and Marchant count or do they fall under another hook?

You described two scenarios: 1) Players sign with a team for money. 2) Players sign with a team because of a hook.

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:00 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
OK... Hooks are players signing with a team without money being the main factor. So we like hooks! Would Selanne, Koivu, Beauchemin, and Marchant count or do they fall under another hook?
No, because they aren't coming here from another NHL team. The discussion was ATTRACTING talent, not RETAINING talent.

The Ducks have done a great job keeping people here. They've done a piss poor job getting people to come here of their own free will after playing elsewhere in the NHL.

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03-22-2012, 11:02 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
No, because they aren't coming here from another NHL team. The discussion was ATTRACTING talent, not RETAINING talent.

The Ducks have done a great job keeping people here. They've done a piss poor job getting people to come here of their own free will after playing elsewhere in the NHL.
Or maybe our GM doesn't overpay for free agents.

There might be two or three teams in the entire league that attract talent without considering money or a hook. Congrats!

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:06 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
Or maybe our GM doesn't overpay for free agents.

There might be two or three teams in the entire league that attract talent without considering money or a hook. Congrats!
The whole point of this exercise was to identify ANY time in the existence of the franchise they have signed an impact free agent that wasn't coming here for family or friends that lasted more than 1 year. The history of the franchise. So far the number is zero. That's something that can also be said about only 2-3 franchises league-wide.

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03-22-2012, 11:11 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
The whole point of this exercise was to identify ANY time in the existence of the franchise they have signed an impact free agent that wasn't coming here for family or friends that lasted more than 1 year. The history of the franchise. So far the number is zero. That's something that can also be said about only 2-3 franchises league-wide.
Not true since you don't count overpaid free agents. I can't name 10 star players that signed with 10 different teams that didn't come with a hook or weren't overpaid.

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03-22-2012, 11:13 PM
  #107
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Almost every team overpays for free agents.
Yes and the degree to which they have to overpay isn't something they all have in common.

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:13 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
Not true since you don't count overpaid free agents. I can't name 10 star players that signed with 10 different teams that didn't come with a hook or weren't overpaid.
No, I'm counting overpaid free agents. The Ducks have none of those that have signed as an UFA and lasted 2 years with the team.

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03-22-2012, 11:16 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
No, I'm counting overpaid free agents. The Ducks have none of those that have signed as an UFA and lasted 2 years with the team.
You magically insert 2 years so our free agents don't count.

I dated a girl for 1 year, but it doesn't count..

I lived in Boston for 1 year, but it doesn't count...

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:21 PM
  #110
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Assuming Lubo retires

Fowler - Getzlaf (They already work on pp)
Sbisa - Beauchimin
Shultz - Brookbank

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:22 PM
  #111
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Lets name all the free agents the Ducks have signed and then find a way to discount them.

Federov didn't last two years. Clearly a free agent must last two years.

Selanne already had a connection to the organization. Players can't have a connection to the organization.

Koivu was friends with Selanne. Players can't have friends on the team.

Niedermayer had a brother on the team. Players can't have a brother on the team.

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Old
03-22-2012, 11:24 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
You magically insert 2 years so our free agents don't count.

I dated a girl for 1 year, but it doesn't count..

I lived in Boston for 1 year, but it doesn't count...


No, that was Elvstrand's original post. The one that spurred this whole discussion. It is also relevant because any UFA who doesn't last more than one year is pretty much guaranteed to be a bust, old and washed up, traded due to not working here, bought out, etc. In other words NOT an impact signing. At least not a positive impact.

Oates - old and pretty washed up, 1 year.
Kurri - old, signed in Colorado the next year.
Federov - bust/disappointment/hugely overpaid, traded start of 2nd year
Bertuzzi - bust/overpaid, bought out after 1 year
Schneider - bust/overpaid, cost a prospect to get rid of the contract after 1 year

See the trend? Identify the "good" UFA signing for us.

EDIT - The thesis is players don't like to sign in Anaheim from elsewhere in the NHL. The fact that your examples require a blood relative, history with the team, close personal friendship with a current Duck/being told your services are no longer required on the team (Koivu stays in Montreal if they have a semi-competent GM), or somehow imply a top 5 center being traded for Tyler Wright and Beauchemin (before he was any good) after 1 year was a GOOD signing, well.....figure it out yourself. I'll help - it says the Ducks are just this side of Edmonton as an UFA destination.


Last edited by Ducks DVM: 03-22-2012 at 11:36 PM.
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Old
03-22-2012, 11:33 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Really? Are you honestly this dense or are you just in difficult mode?

Scotty signed here for less than market value so he could win with his brother. Koivu signed (and re-signed) here to play with Selanne. Selanne re-signed here to try to reclaim his career and because he had a history with the team, then has re-signed out of loyalty. That's what hooks are - things that get a player to sign for something OTHER than money.

Hossa signed with Detroit at under market value to win, ditto Vokoun with the Caps. These are hooks too.

Anaheim doesn't get free agents who want to be here to WIN. And the team probably learned its lesson overpaying with Bertuzzi and Schneider. But there's minimal evidence to support any contention that free agents WANT to come here.
Most players sign where the money is, winning is secondary usually. Hossa is one of the few, in his prime that took such a deal.

If Anaheim was willing to pony up the money, they could lure a Suter, but they wont because they dumpster dive and settle for being a middling team

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Old
03-23-2012, 04:39 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
Lets name all the free agents the Ducks have signed and then find a way to discount them.

Federov didn't last two years. Clearly a free agent must last two years.

Selanne already had a connection to the organization. Players can't have a connection to the organization.

Koivu was friends with Selanne. Players can't have friends on the team.

Niedermayer had a brother on the team. Players can't have a brother on the team.
I'm just saying, since we have no current hooks (beyond money) on the upcoming top free agents, the only way this team is getting the top guys this summer is through overpayments. If you're not willing to gamble with long and expensive deals, then don't be upset with what we're getting. If you're not willing to hand out those contracts, then the best we can do is to hope for washed up or injury-troubled UFA's to sign and then bounce back.

This should be common knowledge to you who doesn't want to hand out these crazy deals, but for anyone else dreaming about Ryan Suter or even Matt Carle... Don't get pissed off if they don't sign here. If this team even can sign the likes of Colaiacovo and Stempniak, then we've done pretty good compared to our track record.


Last edited by Elvs: 03-23-2012 at 05:04 AM.
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03-23-2012, 04:53 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by illpucks View Post
Assuming Lubo retires

Fowler - Getzlaf (They already work on pp)
Sbisa - Beauchimin
Shultz - Brookbank
Just stop please.

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Old
03-23-2012, 04:57 AM
  #116
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Just stop please.
This. Getzlaf as a defender makes the team much worse. Also Fowler-Getzlaf -pair would be a failure.

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03-23-2012, 05:17 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by JabbaJabba View Post
This. Getzlaf as a defender makes the team much worse. Also Fowler-Getzlaf -pair would be a failure.
But highly entertaining in the "OH MY GOD WHAT ARE THEY DOING WHAT IS HAPPENING WHY WHY WHY *heart attack*" kind of way

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03-23-2012, 05:28 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Fallenity View Post
But highly entertaining in the "OH MY GOD WHAT ARE THEY DOING WHAT IS HAPPENING WHY WHY WHY *heart attack*" kind of way
It would be like putting five forwards on the ice. No one would be rushing to defence .

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Old
03-23-2012, 08:13 AM
  #119
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For 12/13

Beauchemin/Fowler
Lydman/Vatanen
Sbisa/Carkner
Brookbank

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03-23-2012, 09:45 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
For all those saying Lubo could retire...Are you retarded???

He makes $5.6M next year...why the hell would anyone retire when they have a chance to make that much cash??? The guy could fake an injury in training camp and still make that money. Oppose to retiring and leaving $5.6M...wakey wakey folks!

Lubo either stays or gets traded...likely the later.
Well judging by what I've been reading, after the crash in Russia last year he doesn't care about the money, more about looking after his family etc.

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03-23-2012, 11:01 AM
  #121
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Well judging by what I've been reading, after the crash in Russia last year he doesn't care about the money, more about looking after his family etc.
Yeah, apparently he really doesn't have the same spark to play as before. Plus all those injuries must start weighing him down at some point.

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03-23-2012, 11:02 AM
  #122
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Well judging by what I've been reading, after the crash in Russia last year he doesn't care about the money, more about looking after his family etc.
and hes not making $5.6 mil next year.. hes only making $3mil

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03-23-2012, 11:32 AM
  #123
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Watching last couple of games Visnovsky seems already hunged up his skates in his mind.

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Old
03-23-2012, 03:51 PM
  #124
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Per Eric Stephens

Quote:
Boudreau said Ducks D Nate Guenin likely out for remainder of season with orbital bone fracture above left eye. Surgery not required.”
Ouch

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Old
03-23-2012, 03:54 PM
  #125
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Per Eric Stephens



Ouch
****en sucks for him. Was finally getting a chance.

What a beast though, did he play through the whole STL game with that injury?

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