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Kyle Clifford fighting, yay or nay

View Poll Results: Kyle Clifford fighting yay or nay
He's fine, just let him kick ass!! 10 35.71%
He's picking the wrong dance partner. 4 14.29%
Opposition know him now. 5 17.86%
he's lost his edge. 9 32.14%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-23-2012, 02:54 PM
  #1
DontgoZiggy
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Kyle Clifford fighting, yay or nay

I love this kid, he brings a physical game with signs of a bit of skill. He allows us to roll without a fulltime goon. However, this year he hasn't been as effective in the fights. Is he picking the wrong dance partner (fighting guys that he gives up too much size to), have the opposition got his number after he suprised a few people last year or has he lost his edge a little?

http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/...htcard/reg2012

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03-23-2012, 02:56 PM
  #2
CNS
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He used to be good until he got his ass kicked last year (vs Reaves?) and ever since, he's looked like **** fighting wise. His play this year has also reflected his fighting style.

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Old
03-23-2012, 02:57 PM
  #3
damacles1156
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Clifford I am sure is being asked to develop other parts of his game.

The Goon is going bye bye. NHL teams want players like Hartnell.

It is no longer ok to just skate 5 mins a game and fight.

He doesn't need to be a stellar fighter, I would rarther Clifford provide sandpaper play and 30-40 points every year.


Last edited by damacles1156: 03-23-2012 at 03:10 PM.
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03-23-2012, 03:04 PM
  #4
I Am Ziggy Palffy
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Nothing wrong with taking a more conservative approach to fighting. When he first came in, it was either knock out or be knocked out. Entertaining for some, but not wise. In Jr's, he was just so much stronger/physically mature than other kids that he could just outmuscle and slug people in fights. In NHL, he had to adjust to not being the strongest kid on the ice and so had to really learn defense, possibly for the first time.

And I agree with the above post about Clifford developing his overall game. Much better than entertaining fights.

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03-23-2012, 03:08 PM
  #5
damacles1156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Ziggy Palffy View Post
Nothing wrong with taking a more conservative approach to fighting. When he first came in, it was either knock out or be knocked out. Entertaining for some, but not wise. In Jr's, he was just so much stronger/physically mature than other kids that he could just outmuscle and slug people in fights. In NHL, he had to adjust to not being the strongest kid on the ice and so had to really learn defense, possibly for the first time.

And I agree with the above post about Clifford developing his overall game. Much better than entertaining fights.
I think the Kings see that Clifford is much more skilled than a player like Westgarth.

They would be stupid to just turn Clifford into another Westgarth. They see him in the mold of Carcillo/Hartnell/Simmer.

They want him to be someone that can play 10 to 15 mins a game, and provide sand paper play.

Kevin Westgarth hasn't played since Feb 16, and has only played 25 games this year (most of those under Murray).

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03-23-2012, 03:09 PM
  #6
DontgoZiggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Clifford I am sure is being asked to develop other parts of his game.

The Goon is going bye bye. NHL teams want players like Heartnell.

It is no longer ok to just skate 5 mins a game and fight.

He doesn't need to be a stellar fighter, I would rarther Clifford provide sandpaper play and 30-40 points every year.
Good points, he is being asked to do a lot more than just fight, and I think he's developing his game nicely. I guess I just don't like seeing a kid of 21(?) getting beaten up buy guys that are older and more experienced and probably stronger. It'd be nice to get a player in their mid to late twenties to provide that scrappy side

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Old
03-23-2012, 03:16 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontgoZiggy View Post
Good points, he is being asked to do a lot more than just fight, and I think he's developing his game nicely. I guess I just don't like seeing a kid of 21(?) getting beaten up buy guys that are older and more experienced and probably stronger. It'd be nice to get a player in their mid to late twenties to provide that scrappy side
You good points too. I want him to fight, and he had done so well with most of them last year, but you`re right with his being 21 going against older stronger guys.

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03-23-2012, 03:17 PM
  #8
damacles1156
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Originally Posted by DontgoZiggy View Post
Good points, he is being asked to do a lot more than just fight, and I think he's developing his game nicely. I guess I just don't like seeing a kid of 21(?) getting beaten up buy guys that are older and more experienced and probably stronger. It'd be nice to get a player in their mid to late twenties to provide that scrappy side
I am with Herby on fighting, It's over rated.

Even with players like Hartnell/Simmer on the ice, teams still take runs at players like Giroux. The players today have zero respect for eachother (it's not like the old days).
Boston is barely a .500 team in the second half, and they have scary sandpaper guys.

Also really Clifford has only been beat up once(last year), I mean last night Chris got maybe one or two good shots. It's not like Clifford left the ice on a stretcher.

Also it was a needless fight, I mean really did that fight have to happen ?

Did the fights help Toronto from getting man handled by Boston ?

I just don't see the value in fighting in TODAY'S NHL. Notice I say today's... Not Ten years ago or Twenty years ago, when players actually respected each other.


Last edited by damacles1156: 03-23-2012 at 03:26 PM.
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03-23-2012, 03:38 PM
  #9
driller1
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Also really Clifford has only been beat up once(last year), I mean last night Chris got maybe one or two good shots. It's not like Clifford left the ice on a stretcher.

Also it was a needless fight, I mean really did that fight have to happen ?
Actually I thought the fight helped turn the momentum last night. Kings were flat in the first, then the 4th line got to start the second period, Cliffy gets in his scrap, and we start playing well afterwards.

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03-23-2012, 03:52 PM
  #10
DontgoZiggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
I am with Herby on fighting, It's over rated.

Even with players like Hartnell/Simmer on the ice, teams still take runs at players like Giroux. The players today have zero respect for eachother (it's not like the old days).
Boston is barely a .500 team in the second half, and they have scary sandpaper guys.

Also really Clifford has only been beat up once(last year), I mean last night Chris got maybe one or two good shots. It's not like Clifford left the ice on a stretcher.

Also it was a needless fight, I mean really did that fight have to happen ?

Did the fights help Toronto from getting man handled by Boston ?

I just don't see the value in fighting in TODAY'S NHL. Notice I say today's... Not Ten years ago or Twenty years ago, when players actually respected each other.
I didn't mean against Stewart, i just meant in general. I think fighting adds to the game if it's a spontaneous fight for a reason. Mind you the Rangers / Devils scrap was pretty entertaining.

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Old
03-23-2012, 03:54 PM
  #11
The Butcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Ziggy Palffy View Post
Nothing wrong with taking a more conservative approach to fighting. When he first came in, it was either knock out or be knocked out. Entertaining for some, but not wise. In Jr's, he was just so much stronger/physically mature than other kids that he could just outmuscle and slug people in fights. In NHL, he had to adjust to not being the strongest kid on the ice and so had to really learn defense, possibly for the first time.

And I agree with the above post about Clifford developing his overall game. Much better than entertaining fights.
Personally, I wouldn't care if I never saw another NHL fight again. I'm not saying the NHL should ban the fighting, I'm just saying it usually doesn't provide the entertainment value that it did when I was younger.

If there is some fighting as a result of a scrum or a big hit and it's reactionary I say have at it but the pre-meditated stuff is retarded.

That said, I wouldn't care if Clifford, or any other King for that matter, never dropped the gloves again. All I care about is winning games.

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03-23-2012, 03:56 PM
  #12
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It isn't about winning the fight, just starting one pumps your team up. I still remember when Carcillo made the stupid decision to fight Talbot when the Flyers were up 3-0 in the 2009 playoffs. Talbot was brutalized but his team was reenergized. Penguins came back from a 3 goal defecit to win the game and the series.

Same thing happened last night with Clifford, he didn't do too well but his team came out on fire after that. That's all that matters.

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03-23-2012, 03:57 PM
  #13
damacles1156
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Originally Posted by driller1 View Post
Actually I thought the fight helped turn the momentum last night. Kings were flat in the first, then the 4th line got to start the second period, Cliffy gets in his scrap, and we start playing well afterwards.
That would have happened regardless I think. The Kings were not happy with 1st period.

Sutter made adjustments....

Early in the year CLifford did the same Frasher too, And the Kings were flat after that. The make up of the team and Coach adjustments have way more to do with momentum.

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03-23-2012, 04:27 PM
  #14
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He just doesn't know how to do it. His ridiculous all or nothing flailing and lack of defense is going to get him clocked and concussed again. I don't mind if he drops them a couple times a year like Mitchell and the sort, but I don't like him in a regular scrapper role. Nolan seems to know what he is doing in that regard, leave that to him.

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03-23-2012, 04:41 PM
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Clifford and Fraser were spotted at the Matt Greene school of fighting over the summer.

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03-23-2012, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
He just doesn't know how to do it. His ridiculous all or nothing flailing and lack of defense is going to get him clocked and concussed again. I don't mind if he drops them a couple times a year like Mitchell and the sort, but I don't like him in a regular scrapper role. Nolan seems to know what he is doing in that regard, leave that to him.
He hasn't been fighting in the no defense style all year. He's trying to defend after getting tagged by Reaves or whoever it was last year and he barely throws punches at all in fights anymore because of it.

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03-24-2012, 04:09 AM
  #17
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I think clifford needs to fight more people around his height/weight. He fights bigger players which their reach always screw him over, i think he needs to stay in his own class when it comes to fighting, fighting someone around the same stature would have better results IMO.

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03-24-2012, 04:27 AM
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Where's the "When needed" option?

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03-24-2012, 09:08 AM
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He's never been a good fighter at the NHL level. Most of his dance partners have size advantage over him and he just gets overwhelmed or he can't get a punch in because of their reach.

However, I think he fires the guys up when he drops the gloves, even if he usually doesn't win.

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03-24-2012, 10:06 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
He's never been a good fighter at the NHL level. Most of his dance partners have size advantage over him and he just gets overwhelmed or he can't get a punch in because of their reach.

However, I think he fires the guys up when he drops the gloves, even if he usually doesn't win.
That's not true at all. Go back and watch his fights from last year: http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/...htcard/reg2011

Before Reaves drops him, he won most of his fights and at worst was even for the rest. After Reaves got him, Brookband tagged him again at the end of the year and he's stopped doing what made him successful, grab on and just start throwing, and he's been trying to defend/wrestle which he isn't as effective doing.

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03-24-2012, 11:10 AM
  #21
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I don't think he should stop fighting, but I think he needs to pick his battles. He needs to fight when the team needs a lift or when protecting a teammate. He's not a fighter, but I think it's okay if he gets into a few a year. Jeez, even Richards fights sometimes.

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03-24-2012, 03:36 PM
  #22
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Staged fights like Westgarth vs. Parros are extremely boring and I hope they are slowly but surely phased out of the NHL. Fights like Richards against Morrow after Morrow knocked out Kopitar with that huge hit are some of the most intense, exciting fights in the league -- they serve a very real purpose and I love it. Fights in the playoffs among two captains are amazing. But players like Jon Scott, Colton Orr, and Raitis Ivanans do not deserve to be in the NHL.

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