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Old
03-23-2012, 09:35 AM
  #101
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I'm not sure I agree with the bolded part. They root for their goalie, because, well.... he's the freakin GOALIE. But off the ice, I'm not so sure the love is there.
Hmm. After the last win, I saw lots of smiling and genuine hugging going on involving Mase. Sure looked like sincere camaraderie to me.

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03-23-2012, 09:47 AM
  #102
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Hmm. After the last win, I saw lots of smiling and genuine hugging going on involving Mase. Sure looked like sincere camaraderie to me.
Everyone's happy after a win. If you can gauge how genuine shows of emotion and support are, especially from the stands or on TV, you should become a marriage counsellor.

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03-23-2012, 09:54 AM
  #103
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As a mod, you HAVE to read long posts looking for infractions and words like "scrotum".
This. And we also sigh when we open up the forum and see that the "latest post" field contains multiple entries from "JACKETfan."

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03-23-2012, 10:13 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Everyone's happy after a win. If you can gauge how genuine shows of emotion and support are, especially from the stands or on TV, you should become a marriage counsellor.
Are you forgetting I am a woman?? Estrogen comes with the bonus of being able to not only judge emotion but also motive.

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03-23-2012, 11:58 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
Word
Actually, I think "Words" would be more appropriate as the plural form.

[Insert 5 paragraphs expounding further.]

So, in conclusion...look a squirrel!

Yeah, I guess this place does take it out of you after a while.

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Old
03-23-2012, 12:34 PM
  #106
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Interesting thoughts. I'll try to keep mine shorter.

In light of the responsibility placed upon the goalie and the fact that we as a destination are equal to being banished to hell, we're gonna have to overpay to get a veteran. Not sure I want Roberto's head games, snow angels or aging body when it seems that no goalie can string together 3-4 years of solid play and when it comes to playoffs, Luongo isn't the guy you want in net. If you listen to the Canuck faithful, some want him out of there. I think I'd pass. Might look hard at Schnieder, kick the tires. I can't think of anyone I'd want to be honest. The ones that are available are really no better than Mason and the room seems to love him.

I liked Blah's line too. I usually do agree with him. We may need to discuss Huselius. LOL In looking at yours, the first thing that jumped out at me was Umberger on the first line. That's just not gonna get it. I like RJ. I want to think he's just laying down, sort of passive aggressive against management but he is debatable on the second line, no way I'd put him on the first line, even though he's paid top line. Same with Brass. As far as I'm concerned you could ship all of the top two lines out. I'm pretty fed up. Lack of chemistry, talent, attitude, whatever. Bye, bye.

If Nash leaves and the Rangers let us go through their garage sale, I'd buy. They have a good development program and a surplus of talent that all can't be used. I still want Sauter!!! No one listens to me but he's a good dman, not top line in NY but could be here. The only D-men I'd keep is Tyutin, Jack and Moore.

I've spent the last couple months watching. I've seen enough.
Honestly I had not looked into anything on the goaltending side but knew there were rumblings about Luongo possibly being the one put out. I thought a few years would be suitable but then I saw the contract ran through 2022. Yeah, no thanks.

And the only reason I stuck RJ on the top line (Again, this was an off the cuff effort) was because I was trying to balance some of the experience, youth and physical characteristics of the lines (I like someone who can forecheck, play sound defense and generally not screw up on each line - granted RJ hasn't covered any of those this year but....). RJ is a second line guy in my book but we really don't have any top line guys until they grow into being them.

I like Sauer too but think the focus needs to be offense and goaltending first (not to say ignore the defense but I think it has some short and long term potential).

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Old
03-23-2012, 12:38 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
As a mod, you HAVE to read long posts looking for infractions and words like "scrotum".


The rest of us just skim read them knowing that really long posts almost always presume too much expertise or lack of gainful employment, or signal a sick day home from High School.

It is also well known that those with THAT much to say in one post should do what other Hfers "hold forthers" have done and start their own blog.

Of course, I am a regular in HF Cbj GD Chat which has trained me to keep it to one liners, and already this post will cost me cred among my people.
Bite me! I keed, I keed.

Short enough?

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Old
03-23-2012, 12:40 PM
  #108
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Ok, one last try (from work )....

Fire some people.
Hire some people.
Get better players.

Post done!

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Old
03-23-2012, 12:43 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Honestly I had not looked into anything on the goaltending side but knew there were rumblings about Luongo possibly being the one put out. I thought a few years would be suitable but then I saw the contract ran through 2022. Yeah, no thanks.

And the only reason I stuck RJ on the top line (Again, this was an off the cuff effort) was because I was trying to balance some of the experience, youth and physical characteristics of the lines (I like someone who can forecheck, play sound defense and generally not screw up on each line - granted RJ hasn't covered any of those this year but....). RJ is a second line guy in my book but we really don't have any top line guys until they grow into being them.

I like Sauer too but think the focus needs to be offense and goaltending first (not to say ignore the defense but I think it has some short and long term potential).
How did we get to this place? We have large holes on everything it seems. I'm depressed.

(btw, the earlier comment I made about keeping my answer short was referencing my own ability to ramble, not yours. I'm trying to cut back on my word count. )

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Old
03-23-2012, 03:03 PM
  #110
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What to do with $17,499,358?

The cap space with no new contracts for next year will $17,499,358 (according to capgeek.com http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=13) and that number does not include Nash's $7.8 salary so the number could go to $25,299,358ish if we trade Nash (not knowing salary coming back). With the stigma we already have as a losing franchise it is hard to attract already proven UFA's (Suter, Parise) so what would y'all suggest we do with the money using about 80% of the cap space we have? What UFA's would you like to see? Keep the money for in-season trades? Don't do anything! I read an article on Twitter that despite success stories like Nashville and a few other teams who continue to be successful on "budgets", it is proven that teams who spend win!!! Would love to find out the different lines of thinking! (Mods sorry if this needs to be moved)

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03-23-2012, 03:05 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJCougar View Post
How did we get to this place? We have large holes on everything it seems. I'm depressed.

(btw, the earlier comment I made about keeping my answer short was referencing my own ability to ramble, not yours. I'm trying to cut back on my word count. )
I think the defense will be adequate if not good next season. We shored up on that front by sacrificing offense when we moved Carter for JJ. Some say we should move Methot, but that means you have to add a shutdown guy, because imo Moore and Savard aren't both ready yet.

The 2 big holes as I see it:

We need a couple top 6 guys badly, not super stars, but 60 point type guys that can score 20+ goals consistently. I do not think Yakupov qualifies in this capacity in 2012-2013...do they even know the extent of his last concussion? Atkinson? maybe, if he starts finding the back of the net. In any case we need to go get some scoring talent.

We need a goalie (or we roll the dice on Mason again next season).

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03-23-2012, 03:14 PM
  #112
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I think the most realistic way to bring in good talent is to make deals with picks or prospects, and be open to package deals which may involve being a salary dumping ground for cap challenged teams. Moving Nash could bring back a couple of pieces too. Its not going to be easy.

As for UFA's, our history involves overpaying for guys that are looking for a paycheck, not a project like rebuilding a team. Prospal has been a nice find, maybe we'll find a couple more guys like him that value competition and take pride in their play, but such players are typically drawn to more competitive organizations.

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Old
03-23-2012, 03:17 PM
  #113
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Take on a bad contract so we can get more talent.

Either that or take on a bad contract during the Nash trade and get a huge return for Nash.

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Old
03-23-2012, 03:50 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueJackets66 View Post
The cap space with no new contracts for next year will $17,499,358 (according to capgeek.com http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=13) and that number does not include Nash's $7.8 salary so the number could go to $25,299,358ish if we trade Nash (not knowing salary coming back). With the stigma we already have as a losing franchise it is hard to attract already proven UFA's (Suter, Parise) so what would y'all suggest we do with the money using about 80% of the cap space we have?
Start paying the fans for showing up? Might as well since the team refuses to...

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Old
03-23-2012, 04:19 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by BlueJackets66 View Post
The cap space with no new contracts for next year will $17,499,358 (according to capgeek.com http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=13) and that number does not include Nash's $7.8 salary so the number could go to $25,299,358ish if we trade Nash (not knowing salary coming back). With the stigma we already have as a losing franchise it is hard to attract already proven UFA's (Suter, Parise) so what would y'all suggest we do with the money using about 80% of the cap space we have? What UFA's would you like to see? Keep the money for in-season trades? Don't do anything! I read an article on Twitter that despite success stories like Nashville and a few other teams who continue to be successful on "budgets", it is proven that teams who spend win!!! Would love to find out the different lines of thinking! (Mods sorry if this needs to be moved)
The only way to attract proven UFAs is to get involved in a bidding war. What makes this year unique is that free agency opens on July 1, and the CBA doesn't expire until September 15. We may see one of those two sign with a team long-term, then watch that team be hamstrung by a reasonable contract that becomes al albatros within 10 weeks.

The only way to get UFAs who are in their prime and productive would be by trading picks or prospects uncondtionally for their negotiating rights. Even then, it'd still take a market-value contract to actually get the guy signed.

Quote:
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I think the most realistic way to bring in good talent is to make deals with picks or prospects, and be open to package deals which may involve being a salary dumping ground for cap challenged teams. Moving Nash could bring back a couple of pieces too. Its not going to be easy.

As for UFA's, our history involves overpaying for guys that are looking for a paycheck, not a project like rebuilding a team. Prospal has been a nice find, maybe we'll find a couple more guys like him that value competition and take pride in their play, but such players are typically drawn to more competitive organizations.
That's the nature of this franchise and a few others. Grow talent from within, sign UFAs to plug holes until the prospects are ready, and hope that you don't start hemorrhaging talent at some point. The only UFAs who consider Columbus (or Nashville, or Florida, or Tampa, or Phoenix, or Edmonton) are those who are either past their prime or are no longer productive. Prospal is the rare guy who's past his prime and still productive, but for the most part guys who are similar to him tend to stick with one team for a long time. This year's UFA group of aging-but-still-productive players are Milan Hejduk, Nicklas Lidstrom, Martin Brodeur, Shane Doan, and Ryan Smyth.

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Originally Posted by ClevelandJacketFan View Post
Take on a bad contract so we can get more talent.

Either that or take on a bad contract during the Nash trade and get a huge return for Nash.
Depending on how the new CBA looks, there could be a huge market for short-term horrible contracts, with the payoff being that it would take a high draft pick and/or top prospect for the guy's old team to succeed in dumping that salary.

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Old
03-23-2012, 05:08 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
As a mod, you HAVE to read long posts looking for infractions and words like "scrotum".


The rest of us just skim read them knowing that really long posts almost always presume too much expertise or lack of gainful employment, or signal a sick day home from High School.

It is also well known that those with THAT much to say in one post should do what other Hfers "hold forthers" have done and start their own blog.

Of course, I am a regular in HF Cbj GD Chat which has trained me to keep it to one liners, and already this post will cost me cred among my people.
tl;dr

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Old
03-23-2012, 05:21 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post

We need a goalie (or we roll the dice on Mason again next season).
I would like to see them get rid of the dice this offseason, personally..

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Old
03-23-2012, 06:21 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
I think the most realistic way to bring in good talent is to make deals with picks or prospects, and be open to package deals which may involve being a salary dumping ground for cap challenged teams. Moving Nash could bring back a couple of pieces too. Its not going to be easy.

As for UFA's, our history involves overpaying for guys that are looking for a paycheck, not a project like rebuilding a team. Prospal has been a nice find, maybe we'll find a couple more guys like him that value competition and take pride in their play, but such players are typically drawn to more competitive organizations.
True but have you even bothered to check his age? How bout Craig Rivet, Ethan Moreau or Chris Clark, remember them?

We need the same player character but much younger... Vinny has one more year in my opinion and that is probably a stretch.


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Old
03-23-2012, 06:22 PM
  #119
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I think the defense will be adequate if not good next season. We shored up on that front by sacrificing offense when we moved Carter for JJ. Some say we should move Methot, but that means you have to add a shutdown guy, because imo Moore and Savard aren't both ready yet.

The 2 big holes as I see it:

We need a couple top 6 guys badly, not super stars, but 60 point type guys that can score 20+ goals consistently. I do not think Yakupov qualifies in this capacity in 2012-2013...do they even know the extent of his last concussion? Atkinson? maybe, if he starts finding the back of the net. In any case we need to go get some scoring talent.

We need a goalie (or we roll the dice on Mason again next season).
We tried this.
Remember RJ, Vermette, Huselius, tyutin and Carter?

What's the common denominator?

Including lack of dependable goaltending, I think it's was a perfect storm of weak leadership on and off the ice. But look at StL, such leadership can be there, just lying dormant.

Quote:
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I would like to see them get rid of the dice this offseason, personally..
Which to me means acquiring guys who bring it every game, not guys who flash then disappear (Verm/Commie/Juice and rooks).

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03-23-2012, 06:43 PM
  #120
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True but have you even bothered to check his age? How bout Craig Rivet, Ethan Moreau or Chris Clark, remember them?

We need the same player character but much younger... Vinny has one more year in my opinion and that is probably a stretch.
Cam Atkinson? Atkinson honestly looks a great deal like Prospal did back in 1995. Back then, he was a pale rookie with a full head of hair from the Czech Republic wearing #45, and he still answered to Vaclav.

If in fact the #1 pick ends up in Columbus and Yakupov is the guy, I'd be trying to acquire someone else like Prospal...older and still productive. I don't know how eager Colorado would be to lose Milan Hejduk, or how eager Hejduk would be to sign here, but I'd take a run at him. Even if he has just one or two years left, he'd still be able to slot in on the top two lines while also tutoring the young wingers in the system.

Being able to remember Prospal's rookie season makes me feel very old, by the way. I mean, I'm well past halfway to 50, but still...

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Old
03-23-2012, 06:53 PM
  #121
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Cam Atkinson?

Being able to remember Prospal's rookie season makes me feel very old, by the way. I mean, I'm well past halfway to 50, but still...
I do subscribe to the college system, it provides older players.. That said they still lack professional experience.. Cam is on my potential list.

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03-23-2012, 07:24 PM
  #122
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I do subscribe to the college system, it provides older players.. That said they still lack professional experience.. Cam is on my potential list.
True, but the learning curve is still there. I'm trying to think of someone right out of college who's made an impact in his first two years, and I'm having a tough time doing it....plenty of guys who did nothing though. I do remember Peter Sejna winning the Hobey Baker and then playing the next day with the Blues (and scoring his first goal). He ended up with 7 career NHL goals.

There have been several just in the last three or four years who were supposed to make an immediate impact. I can think of Matt Gilroy off the top of my head; he came in as a 25-year-old and has made zero impact in the NHL. And everyone wanted him.

I don't like the college route on a regular basis because it reminds me of the baseball's old Bonus Baby rule. The quick version of that rule was that if a player was signed to a contract with a bonus in excess of a certain amount, he was required to be on the team's 40-man roster for two full seasons before he could be sent down. If that wasn't followed, the player went on waivers and his contract was voided. Rather than making teams be judicious with who bonuses were going to, it meant that the smaller teams were forced to take on the Bonus Babies just to stay competitive...and then their hands were tied because of the terms of it. Only four of those players, by the way, became HOFers, but plenty who may have ended up there fell well short because they were playing MLB ball (or not playing at all) well before they were ready to do so.

A college free agent can dictate terms. He can not only dictate salary, but also an NTC/NMC, he can demand a one-way contract, he can do whatever he wants. And if a team wants his services and won't offer that, then someone will. Then it's a case of determining whether or not he's actually worth it. It's also like the draft; if you don't get him when you have the chance, you don't get him forever. Is it worth passing on someone because you won't give him a one-way contract, knowing that someone else may get an All-Star that you had in your back pocket over something relatively minor?

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03-24-2012, 06:12 AM
  #123
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Step 1: Realize this team isn't being turned around by next season. It is 2 if not 3 or more years for a rebuild unless they get darn lucky.
Step 2: Identify the type of team identity you want to have. i.e. a hard hitting smash mouth type team, puck possession, etc. and build towards that.
Step 3: Trade Nash. He is the biggest bargaining chip this team has and the damage has already been done by him saying he wants to move on. Unless he does a 180 this franchise needs to turn the page.
Step 4: Quit rushing young players before they are ready
Step 5: Find a platoon goalie like Harding/Montoya and come to camp giving that goalie every opportunity to win the job over Mason
Step 6: Identify the players you want to build around and make everyone else expendable and load up on picks/prospects. Guys like Methot and Umberger are secondary players whose true value might lie in what they can get you in return. If another GM is willing to overpay for them they are gone. (Weiss kept. Horton gone)
Step 7: Try to find great buy low candidates who will still be darn good or young enough to be in their prime years (Campbell, Versteeg)
Step 8: Sign free agents to replace players lost in trades for picks/prospects to buy time so prospects don't need to be rushed (Jovo/Fleish)

Essentially follow the Tallon method of building.

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03-24-2012, 07:55 AM
  #124
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Step 4: Quit rushing young players before they are ready

Essentially follow the Tallon method of building.
You do realize that Tallon's two top players in Chicago were rushed (Toews and Kane), and that Florida's top two defenders (Kulikov and Gudbranson) were rushed as well?

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03-24-2012, 08:38 AM
  #125
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You do realize that Tallon's two top players in Chicago were rushed (Toews and Kane), and that Florida's top two defenders (Kulikov and Gudbranson) were rushed as well?
How so? Kane and Toews have both produced at a high level since they have been in the league. Coming right into the league after being drafted isn't being rushed if a player is ready. Don't know much about the defenders although Gudbranson spent a year back in juniors after being drafted.

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