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Danny Briere, are you worried?

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Old
03-22-2012, 10:25 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
i find it funny that you are trying to deflect attention from Danny's horrible play by talking about the goalie.
What are you talking about?

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Old
03-22-2012, 10:27 PM
  #177
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03-22-2012, 10:44 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
This. Briere needs a physical winger to take some of the bigger defenders away from him. Plus they have shown chemistry with each other since he has been in Philly. Some of our best lines were composed of hartnell and briere with some other winger. Giroux and jagr would likely continue playing well with someone else. Even if they were a little less productive offensively, it would be extremely helpful to have and offensively productive Briere. Especially with all of the rookies playing in their first playoffs this season
He's had Simmonds on his line for awhile, and apparently had Schenn there tonight as well? (missed the game). He needs someone to distribute him the puck, he can't generate the chances by himself anymore. He was at his best sneaking in next to the post and tucking in rebounds/passes, and I haven't seen that happen in forever...he usually has it in Gretzky's office trying wrap-arounds. No one on that line can set him up. I'd honestly like to see him with Couturier and Rinaldo again, or at least Couturier and Simmonds. Give him a space clearer and a passer.

I've already said somewhere in this thread, he's not really like Giroux who can make it happen himself. Danny's always done his best with another playmaker on his line (Prospal and Leino as his linemates were his best years here).

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03-22-2012, 10:49 PM
  #179
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Well, the offense has run dry, so I think now is the perfect time to try shaking some things up, particularly to try and find chemistry with Briere.

Simmonds-Giroux-Read
Hartnell-Briere-Jagr
Wellwood-Couturier-Talbot
Rinaldo-Schenn-Voracek


I really want to give that top six a shot. Giroux just needs guys who can win battles and go to the net. He doesnt actually need Jagr and Hartnell on his line. He only needs Hartnell for the PP, imo.

As for Briere, he needs to be a goal scorer. Let Hartnell do his thang and let Jagr be the puck carrier. I think that's what is wrong right now with Danny-- way too much puck carrying, not enough movement to open ice.

But I do want to experiment here now that we're not scoring many goals. A line up like the one above can role all four lines and play a VERY up tempo game. We could easily wear teams down. We need to take advantage of our depth here.


EDIT: What we can not do with Briere is continue to give him Simmonds and Schenn and Read. They are all good players, but they all depend on Danny to create the offense. Well, Briere needs a very particular setting to be successful. He needs players who he can work with, not work for.


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Old
03-23-2012, 12:32 AM
  #180
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I personally would like to see Couturier on a line with Briere. It will help the line defensively and is a big bodied skilled player that he can play with as well throw Read on the other wing and see what happens

Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr
Read-Couturier-Briere
Simmonds-Schenn-Voracek
Rinaldo-Talbot-Wellwood

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Old
03-23-2012, 01:16 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
I personally would like to see Couturier on a line with Briere. It will help the line defensively and is a big bodied skilled player that he can play with as well throw Read on the other wing and see what happens

Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr
Read-Couturier-Briere
Simmonds-Schenn-Voracek
Rinaldo-Talbot-Wellwood
I still think we'd be relying too much on Briere alone with Read and Couturier.

Briere needs guys who can take pressure off of him by giving him space to either get open, or space to carry the puck. That's why Leino and Hartnell were so effective with him. Like the OT winner against Pittsburgh the other day...Briere carried the puck with time and space and was able to use his vision to his advantage because of it.

That's what we need to do with him again. Putting him with guys who play well in the corners isnt effective because he isnt given space to work with when he does get the puck on his stick.

I also think his defensive problems are much less of a concern when he has chemistry also. When Briere has chemistry with his linemates, he can very effectively keep possession of the puck. Sure he'll have a lapse here and there, but we'll also have the puck more often than not. I dont think playing with Read or Simmonds allows him to keep possession of the puck.

I dont know. Just my opinion, I'm sure others see it differently. I certainly dont think he's a lost cause though.

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Old
03-23-2012, 10:07 AM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
He's had Simmonds on his line for awhile, and apparently had Schenn there tonight as well? (missed the game). He needs someone to distribute him the puck, he can't generate the chances by himself anymore. He was at his best sneaking in next to the post and tucking in rebounds/passes, and I haven't seen that happen in forever...he usually has it in Gretzky's office trying wrap-arounds. No one on that line can set him up. I'd honestly like to see him with Couturier and Rinaldo again, or at least Couturier and Simmonds. Give him a space clearer and a passer.

I've already said somewhere in this thread, he's not really like Giroux who can make it happen himself. Danny's always done his best with another playmaker on his line (Prospal and Leino as his linemates were his best years here).
Actually think he was at his best when the Line was Hartnell-Briere-Leino.

Really think they should try Hartnell-Briere and someone...Read maybe.

You have to keep Giroux with Jagr. There is too much chemistry there. Maybe Voracek with those two.

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03-23-2012, 10:14 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by mcsarahbell View Post
Actually think he was at his best when the Line was Hartnell-Briere-Leino.

Really think they should try Hartnell-Briere and someone...Read maybe.

You have to keep Giroux with Jagr. There is too much chemistry there. Maybe Voracek with those two.
I would be very hesitant to split the line up that has carried us for some time now. Hartsy-Giroux-Jagr all compliment each other extremely well.

I wouldn't mind seeing a line of Simmonds-Briere-Voracek. Those players also can help Briere on the defensive side of the game. It gives Briere his playmaker in Voracek and a banger in Simmer.

Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr
Simmonds-Briere-Voracek
Read-Schenn-talbot/wellwood
Talbot/wellwood-Couts-Rinaldo

And hope JVR can make an impact when he comes back from injury in the playoffs.

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03-23-2012, 10:24 AM
  #184
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Honestly, might as well move Briere to the wing. I defended him at center last season cause he was producing points, but this season he has looked bad even at center. Atleast on the wing he wont be as much as a liability as at center.

Accouple things to leave and change around:

-Jagr and Giroux are going to stay together for the rest of the season and playoffs. Jagr would make that happen and the coaching staff will respect him.

-Get Couturier and Read on the same line. I honestly cant see how Lavy cant see this chemistry... Every game they are on the same line they either score or are one of our best lines. Even Read said he has chemistry with Couturier, but for some reason Lavy tries everything to not put them together (At ES).

So that would make the lines (with Briere at center):

Jagr-Giroux-Simmonds
Hartnell-Briere-Voracek
Read-Couturier-Talbot
Rinaldo-Schenn-Wellwood

Read-Couturier-Talbot would be a good shutdown line, which people on this board have been wanting for 5 years. Voracek replaces the "Leino".

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Old
03-23-2012, 10:25 AM
  #185
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JVR Briere Jagr (hoping for playoff JVR, would be a plesant surprise)
Hartnell Briere Read (Briere played well with Hartnell)
Simmonds Schenn Voracek (I think at some point this line did very well during the season)
Wellwood Couturier Talbot

I think lines are fairly balanced but not necessary a good idea to break Hartnell and Giroux for not 100% not in game shape JVR.

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03-23-2012, 10:30 AM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroglycerin View Post
JVR Briere Jagr (hoping for playoff JVR, would be a plesant surprise)
Hartnell Briere Read (Briere played well with Hartnell)
Simmonds Schenn Voracek (I think at some point this line did very well during the season)
Wellwood Couturier Talbot

I think lines are fairly balanced but not necessary a good idea to break Hartnell and Giroux for not 100% not in game shape JVR.
Yep, in the end, taking Hartnell off of Giroux's line just to spark Briere could be a very bad idea. If anything JVR should start off on the 4th line, since he wouldnt have played in way over a month.

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03-23-2012, 10:49 AM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Yep, in the end, taking Hartnell off of Giroux's line just to spark Briere could be a very bad idea. If anything JVR should start off on the 4th line, since he wouldnt have played in way over a month.
Right now no one is working right with Briere, so the 2nd line is really unproductive....defensively maybe decent but that's where your 3rd line should be. You HAVE to get Briere going. G and Jagr are where the real Chemistry is. Hartnell is making things happen on that line...but the way he is playing...he's going to make things happen regardless. He has chemistry with Briere. There is no denying that. Just saying.

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03-23-2012, 10:56 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by mcsarahbell View Post
Right now no one is working right with Briere, so the 2nd line is really unproductive....defensively maybe decent but that's where your 3rd line should be. You HAVE to get Briere going. G and Jagr are where the real Chemistry is. Hartnell is making things happen on that line...but the way he is playing...he's going to make things happen regardless. He has chemistry with Briere. There is no denying that. Just saying.
He had chemistry with Briere last season (and the one time they scored this season). Hartnell is producing while with Giroux. What if he goes back to the old Hartnell when with Briere? We also dont even know if Briere will go back to his old self. I just think it's risky to move Hartnell off that line. Giroux and Jagr have chemistry BUT Hartnell is the glue between them. If Simmonds could do that (and I guess JVR if he comes back and actually plays) that fine, but right now Hartnell is. All we need to do is mess up the one line that actually is scoring to try to get another to score. Bad time to do it is right before playoffs. Well, if they did it for like, say the next game, and it works nice, but once we start getting closer to playoffs, Lavy has got to stop messing with the lines.

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03-23-2012, 11:00 AM
  #189
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I wouldn't be opposed to moving Hartnell to Briere's line. Hartnell-Giroux have done most of their damage on the power play anyway. If Hartnell can get Briere going it will definitely be worth it just so we have some sort of secondary scoring.

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03-23-2012, 03:09 PM
  #190
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I like the idea of Voracek on his line. Simmonds-Briere-Voracek works for me. Both guys can create space with speed and size, and hopefully allow Briere to sneak down to his post for loose pucks and rebounds.

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03-23-2012, 03:25 PM
  #191
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I just think Giroux is going to put up even strength points with anybody. He puts points up the same way Crosby does-- that is, he'll put up similar numbers with average linemates as he does with elite linemates. Giroux doesnt need Jagr or Hartnell on his line.

But Briere is a lot different. He needs lots of time and space. He's most effective when he is able to watch the play develop with the puck on his stick and make a play using his vision. He doesnt get that with muckers like Simmonds and Read. I say give him Jagr and Hartnell so he can use all that extra room to his advantage. Both of them create lots of space for their linemates and that's all Briere needs.

Right now, we're giving him linemates that do work in the corners...well, that's fine, but it's very easy to defend against Danny when his linemates arent a direct threat.

I just think now is the time to experiment a little. Let's see if Giroux can produce without Jagr, which I believe he can. It's best to test it out now than in the playoffs. The fact of the matter is that we are going to need more than one line once the playoffs start. We need to get things going now, imo.

EDIT: As for Voracek with Briere-- I dont like that very much. Voracek's main asset is his ability to generate chances with his speed. Briere doesnt really need speed, he just needs players who can open up the ice which I dont think Voracek is great at doing.

I'd be open to this as well:

Wellwood-Giroux-Read
Hartnell-Briere-Jagr
Voracek-Couturier-Schenn
Rinaldo-Talbot-Simmonds

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03-23-2012, 05:41 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post

EDIT: As for Voracek with Briere-- I dont like that very much. Voracek's main asset is his ability to generate chances with his speed. Briere doesnt really need speed, he just needs players who can open up the ice which I dont think Voracek is great at doing.

I'd be open to this as well:

Wellwood-Giroux-Read
Hartnell-Briere-Jagr
Voracek-Couturier-Schenn
Rinaldo-Talbot-Simmonds
Eh...I don't think putting Wellwood and Read with Giroux is a great idea. Seems like he has the worst wingers possible.

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03-23-2012, 06:16 PM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Eh...I don't think putting Wellwood and Read with Giroux is a great idea. Seems like he has the worst wingers possible.
Wellwood and Read are fantastic, actually...and I'm not against as against this as you are. Wellwood impresses me every time he steps on the ice and Matt Read is the best contract in hockey right now. But, chemistry is that intangible thing and the center Read has the most chemistry with right now is Couturier.

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03-23-2012, 06:41 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Eh...I don't think putting Wellwood and Read with Giroux is a great idea. Seems like he has the worst wingers possible.
Read has the 4th most goals and 5th most points on the team. Simmonds is 3rd and 4th in those catagories, btw.
Actually seeing that makes me miss the old days. Looks like only Giroux and Hartnell are gonna reach 60 points. So far no other Flyer has even hit 50.

Then again, in the SCF season Carter was our leading scoring with 62 points.

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03-23-2012, 07:08 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
I like the idea of Voracek on his line. Simmonds-Briere-Voracek works for me. Both guys can create space with speed and size, and hopefully allow Briere to sneak down to his post for loose pucks and rebounds.
I'm fine with trying anything in practice, but I would be nervous this line would get caught deep often -- and Briere doesn't backcheck effectively. Still, proof is always in the pudding.

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03-23-2012, 07:08 PM
  #196
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Jagr has not been producing lately. I like seeing Giroux and Jagr together, but the chemistry is being a bit overstated.

Giroux has proven that he does not need Jagr with him to produce. Maybe I'm wrong when I say Giroux will put up points no matter who we put on his wing, but I think it's worth a shot at this point in the season.

Why not? If it can get Briere going, I'd be all for it. If not, we give Jagr back to Giroux for the playoffs.

I just want to see some more secondary scoring.

EDIT: People should not be concerned with putting two way players with Briere. The best way to combat Briere's defensive issues is to find someone he has chemistry with. Briere at his best means that the puck is usually in our possession.

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03-23-2012, 07:10 PM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
He had chemistry with Briere last season (and the one time they scored this season). Hartnell is producing while with Giroux. What if he goes back to the old Hartnell when with Briere? We also dont even know if Briere will go back to his old self. I just think it's risky to move Hartnell off that line. Giroux and Jagr have chemistry BUT Hartnell is the glue between them. If Simmonds could do that (and I guess JVR if he comes back and actually plays) that fine, but right now Hartnell is. All we need to do is mess up the one line that actually is scoring to try to get another to score. Bad time to do it is right before playoffs. Well, if they did it for like, say the next game, and it works nice, but once we start getting closer to playoffs, Lavy has got to stop messing with the lines.
Hartnell had a sitdown with Laviolette last year during the playoff run where Laviolette questioned his will to win. Hartnell says it was the most productive meeting he has ever had. The fire you see in Hartnell is not a G thing. It's a Hartnell thing...and the problems before the meeting weren't a Briere thing, they were a Hartnell not handling life issues thing.

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03-23-2012, 07:10 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I just want to see some more secondary scoring.
Greedy! They spread out the scoring pretty absurdly.

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03-23-2012, 07:12 PM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Jagr has not been producing lately. I like seeing Giroux and Jagr together, but the chemistry is being a bit overstated.

Giroux has proven that he does not need Jagr with him to produce. Maybe I'm wrong when I say Giroux will put up points no matter who we put on his wing, but I think it's worth a shot at this point in the season.

Why not? If it can get Briere going, I'd be all for it. If not, we give Jagr back to Giroux for the playoffs.

I just want to see some more secondary scoring.

EDIT: People should not be concerned with putting two way players with Briere. The best way to combat Briere's defensive issues is to find someone he has chemistry with. Briere at his best means that the puck is usually in our possession.
Jagr would seem more productive with Giroux if Giroux would start shooting...fact.
Briere's issues are much less on the defensive side than on the scoring front. Goals are scored far more, for example...with G's lines on the ice than they are with Briere's.


Last edited by mcsarahbell: 03-23-2012 at 07:14 PM. Reason: typo
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03-23-2012, 07:18 PM
  #200
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We all know G only likes to shoot when he can make the goaltender look silly.


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