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Trading Staal and signing Ryan Suter

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Old
03-23-2012, 05:13 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Deathdealer View Post
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Thank you. Your contributions to this discussion have been of great proportions.

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Old
03-23-2012, 05:22 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Thank you. Your contributions to this discussion have been of great proportions.
Why are you arguing with someone who has the absolute WORST player in Rangers history as his avatar? That speaks volumes.........

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03-23-2012, 05:24 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Ruotsalainen29 View Post
Why are you arguing with someone who has the absolute WORST player in Rangers history as his avatar? That speaks volumes.........
Now, to fair, I'm on the mobile version, so I don't see anyone's avatars.

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03-23-2012, 05:25 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Now, to fair, I'm on the mobile version, so I don't see anyone's avatars.
He pays homage to Dale freakin Purinton.

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03-23-2012, 05:27 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Ruotsalainen29 View Post
He pays homage to Dale freakin Purinton.
Probably thinks he's better than Staal too.

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03-23-2012, 06:11 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by o 16 Avery NYR o View Post
this guy mahonistan is off on sooooo many levels
Not really. The team's problems won't go away simply by adding big named guys via huge contracts and big trades. We've seen the effects of terrible contracts from perennial 60 pt players like Nash with Drury and Gomez. Parise would be nice, but it's unrealistic. I don't see the need to add a huge contract when we are first in the east this year and our young guys will only get better. We can keep the farm and see if it pans out and wait a couple of years until better players hit the market. I am a realist however and I know the Rangers historically have been the type of team to trade young talent and sign players to huge contracts. I just hope they aren't stupid enough to add an overhyped Nash or severely overpay to get Parise out of NJ. If they can get Parise for 5-6 mil in a front loaded deal, fine. However the 8 years 72 mil I've been seeing is crippling. I just wouldn't want to be in a situation where you can't re-sign MDZ, Hagelin, Callahan, McD, Girardi, and Stepan down the line. Call me old fashioned, but based on every hockey dynasty, the way to build a team is through the draft and the farm. Not trades and free agency. The only sport where you can do that is basketball. The Rangers have FAILED with the trade and free agency model. Especially when it comes to overpaying players like Gomez, Drury, Redden, Bure, Lindros, and even older by trading Park and Ratelle for Esposito. That alone may have cost the Rangers a cup or two. I understand the NY mindset is win now worry about it later and that I'm a minority in not wanting to add a huge contract. From my point of view, this team has great chemistry and the pieces they need are already here in the farm. However, I am just a fan and my opinion does not and will not ever matter. Historically speaking though, the stuff you guys are proposing is exactly what has kept the Rangers from winning in the past and doing it again will not bring in a cup.


Examples of this big name fiasco would be
Lindros traded to Philly.
That trade basically sent Phillys farm to Colorado. They used some spare parts in Thibault and draft picks to get Roy (a legend) and those two trades (one a direct result from trading Lindros) won Colorado 2 cups. Lindros was great, but he never won the Flyers the cup. He was overhyped as "the next Wayne Gretzky".

Phil Esposito was traded to the Rangers for Brad Park and Jean Ratelle. The Esposito wanted Ken Hodge so the Rangers traded away Rick Middleton. Had those two trades not happened for big names, we'd have at least another cup.

Bure, Lindros, Kovalev (again), Nedved, Drury, Gomez, Redden, Holik... all acquisitions by the Rangers and we all know how that turned out.

Exceptions are when you can acquire Jagr, Roy, Messier, and Gretzky for almost nothing. But those guys at the times of their acquisitions by their respective teams were amongst the greatest players ever. Other than that, it doesn't really work out. Look at Hossa's and Kovalchuk's contracts. they are not worth their contracts though Kovy is playing better but it took 3 years. How will Parise or Nash be any different? Even Gaborik and Richards were shmeh signings. Richards is locked up for the rest of his career and people complain about him now. Imagine what happens in 4 years when his production really starts to drop.

You guys overvalue these free agents or potential trade targets who really aren't that much different than the ones we have signed or traded for and then watched them flounder in blue. Then we'll be hearing the "why did we trade for Nash" or "why did we sign Parise for 9 years".

I'm just a fan who wants his team to start a dynasty by building from within. If that makes me nuts, I'm cool with it. However, it's worked out pretty damn well for teams in the past and the Rangers have the same tools those other teams had already in their system.

How long will solid players like Stepan and MDZ keep taking minuscule contracts to stay at NYR? MDZ is on pace for 45 points and an above 20 +/-. How long do guys like him and McD say "I'm only worth 2-3 mil?" They can easily leave the NYR if they want to chase more money as NYR will be too bogged down from huge contracts to give them it.

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03-23-2012, 06:49 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Probably thinks he's better than Staal too.
Hes about the same

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03-23-2012, 06:50 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Deathdealer View Post
Hes about the same
NotSureIfSerious.jph

Have you watched Staal play before this year? Like when he was our best defenseman last year?

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03-23-2012, 06:52 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
I've seen some crazy ass things in this thread....
No kidding. This thread is absolutely awful.

In addition...

No, Shea Weber is not on the open market this offseason. He's an RFA.

Yes, Ryan Suter is an elite defenseman.

No, comparisons between pre-Cap trades and post-Cap trades are not valid.

Staal is not overrated. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to make an all-star game as a defensive defenseman?

MDZ, McD, Stepan, etc cannot easily leave the Rangers and seek more money elsewhere for another 4-6 years depending on the player. RFAs.

Nash's value will not go up during the summer. No team will be in desperate straits and wanting to add him. His list of teams is not going to grow.

I can go on and on.

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03-23-2012, 06:53 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by mahonistan View Post
If Nash is here, Kreider won't be.

If Parise is here 2 of Stepan, MDZ, and Hagelin won't be here in 2 years.
i disagree with you.

Sather said no to including Kreider in a deal for Nash..so i mean..

and how do you figure MDZ and Hags wont be here if we sign Parise? you think they're going to want 5-6mil a year contracts?

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03-23-2012, 06:56 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Deathdealer View Post
Hes about the same
oh you're going to fit in just fine around here bud

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03-23-2012, 07:02 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by mahonistan View Post
If Nash is here, Kreider won't be.

If Parise is here 2 of Stepan, MDZ, and Hagelin won't be here in 2 years.
Definitely not true.
CBJ can demand all it wants.
Kreider and his (forthcoming) ELC will NOT be moved.

There is the Nash package they want, the one we want, and the compromise between the 2.
But Kreider is not going.

As to Parise, don't see that either.
I say instead of 6 years at slightly off top dollar, give him ABOVE top dollar but only for 1-2 years. He can't lose, unless he gets injured, and they have insurance for that.

Rangers might move one of Stepan, MDZ, for upgrade to other needs, but certainly no cause + effect w/Parise.

The more likely scenario could be if there is an amnesty buy out we buy out Richards and then re-sign him for less, or something along those lines.

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03-23-2012, 07:47 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
NotSureIfSerious.jph

Have you watched Staal play before this year? Like when he was our best defenseman last year?
ive watched staal play since befor he came up. not impressed. ave player with tons of msg spin

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03-23-2012, 07:53 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Deathdealer View Post
ive watched staal play since befor he came up. not impressed. ave player with tons of msg spin
Comparing him to Purinton? The most useless Rangers player of all time? Yeah...OK.

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03-23-2012, 07:56 PM
  #140
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Dale Purinton has rocks in his head. Quite possibly the lowest hockey IQ in the history of the sport.


Last edited by Ruotsalainen29: 03-23-2012 at 08:35 PM.
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03-23-2012, 08:09 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by mahonistan View Post
Not really. The team's problems won't go away simply by adding big named guys via huge contracts and big trades. We've seen the effects of terrible contracts from perennial 60 pt players like Nash with Drury and Gomez. Parise would be nice, but it's unrealistic. I don't see the need to add a huge contract when we are first in the east this year and our young guys will only get better. We can keep the farm and see if it pans out and wait a couple of years until better players hit the market. I am a realist however and I know the Rangers historically have been the type of team to trade young talent and sign players to huge contracts. I just hope they aren't stupid enough to add an overhyped Nash or severely overpay to get Parise out of NJ. If they can get Parise for 5-6 mil in a front loaded deal, fine. However the 8 years 72 mil I've been seeing is crippling. I just wouldn't want to be in a situation where you can't re-sign MDZ, Hagelin, Callahan, McD, Girardi, and Stepan down the line. Call me old fashioned, but based on every hockey dynasty, the way to build a team is through the draft and the farm. Not trades and free agency. The only sport where you can do that is basketball. The Rangers have FAILED with the trade and free agency model. Especially when it comes to overpaying players like Gomez, Drury, Redden, Bure, Lindros, and even older by trading Park and Ratelle for Esposito. That alone may have cost the Rangers a cup or two. I understand the NY mindset is win now worry about it later and that I'm a minority in not wanting to add a huge contract. From my point of view, this team has great chemistry and the pieces they need are already here in the farm. However, I am just a fan and my opinion does not and will not ever matter. Historically speaking though, the stuff you guys are proposing is exactly what has kept the Rangers from winning in the past and doing it again will not bring in a cup.


Examples of this big name fiasco would be
Lindros traded to Philly.
That trade basically sent Phillys farm to Colorado. They used some spare parts in Thibault and draft picks to get Roy (a legend) and those two trades (one a direct result from trading Lindros) won Colorado 2 cups. Lindros was great, but he never won the Flyers the cup. He was overhyped as "the next Wayne Gretzky".

Phil Esposito was traded to the Rangers for Brad Park and Jean Ratelle. The Esposito wanted Ken Hodge so the Rangers traded away Rick Middleton. Had those two trades not happened for big names, we'd have at least another cup.

Bure, Lindros, Kovalev (again), Nedved, Drury, Gomez, Redden, Holik... all acquisitions by the Rangers and we all know how that turned out.

Exceptions are when you can acquire Jagr, Roy, Messier, and Gretzky for almost nothing. But those guys at the times of their acquisitions by their respective teams were amongst the greatest players ever. Other than that, it doesn't really work out. Look at Hossa's and Kovalchuk's contracts. they are not worth their contracts though Kovy is playing better but it took 3 years. How will Parise or Nash be any different? Even Gaborik and Richards were shmeh signings. Richards is locked up for the rest of his career and people complain about him now. Imagine what happens in 4 years when his production really starts to drop.

You guys overvalue these free agents or potential trade targets who really aren't that much different than the ones we have signed or traded for and then watched them flounder in blue. Then we'll be hearing the "why did we trade for Nash" or "why did we sign Parise for 9 years".

I'm just a fan who wants his team to start a dynasty by building from within. If that makes me nuts, I'm cool with it. However, it's worked out pretty damn well for teams in the past and the Rangers have the same tools those other teams had already in their system.

How long will solid players like Stepan and MDZ keep taking minuscule contracts to stay at NYR? MDZ is on pace for 45 points and an above 20 +/-. How long do guys like him and McD say "I'm only worth 2-3 mil?" They can easily leave the NYR if they want to chase more money as NYR will be too bogged down from huge contracts to give them it.


Took me an hour to read , but the best way to say what I said on Page Three.

Guys, Staal is not Brian Leetch. He's not Potvin Bourque, or Orr. He's not Zubov or Coffey. Enough is enough on his stats. Stats speak volumes for goal scorers. He is not a goal scorer. Don't tell me he's a goal scorer because he's "supposed to be." Boyler scored 21 goals last year. Does that make him a goal scorer? Or a fluke? Or a disappointment? Does it make him lucky? Did he step up because of disproportionate offense?

Stop going to the stat line and watch the game. Not everything is about scoring. I suppose next you'll want Biron to win 25 games...oh wait...whoops...

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03-23-2012, 09:26 PM
  #142
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woot go staal -3 tonight yippidy dooo daaaah

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03-23-2012, 09:52 PM
  #143
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woot go staal -3 tonight yippidy dooo daaaah
So were Del Zotto and Gaborik.
-2 for Rupp, Stepan, Richards, and Mitchell.
-1 for Hagelin.

But yes- Staal lost us the game. It didn't have anything to do with Mitchell kicking it in and the turnif the puck over. Nothing at all.

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03-23-2012, 09:56 PM
  #144
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We're seriously gonna give 7-8 million to a guy that plays with Shea Weber? I would never trust Ryan Suter by himself. Never.

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03-23-2012, 10:02 PM
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We're seriously gonna give 7-8 million to a guy that plays with Shea Weber? I would never trust Ryan Suter by himself. Never.
It could work the other way too, but this is sort of like the Redden situation-him and Chara together. But that's beside the point. This team has no business giving that money to a defenseman.

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03-23-2012, 10:08 PM
  #146
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It could work the other way too, but this is sort of like the Redden situation-him and Chara together. But that's beside the point. This team has no business giving that money to a defenseman.
Exactly. Lets not have another Redden please.

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03-23-2012, 10:14 PM
  #147
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We're seriously gonna give 7-8 million to a guy that plays with Shea Weber? I would never trust Ryan Suter by himself. Never.
Some Nashville fans seem to think Weber benefits more from Suter than anything else.

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03-23-2012, 11:20 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
So were Del Zotto and Gaborik.
-2 for Rupp, Stepan, Richards, and Mitchell.
-1 for Hagelin.

But yes- Staal lost us the game. It didn't have anything to do with Mitchell kicking it in and the turnif the puck over. Nothing at all.
Stop answering him the guy is a complete moron.

Staal made a terrible play in the 3rd but it happens. McDonagh was awful against PITT the other night so I guess we should trade him too. Staal is going to be big for us in the playoffs i guarantee it. He is still putting his game back together especially the physical side. He has rushed up the ice more with the puck. His long reach and size will be crucial in the playoffs.

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03-23-2012, 11:23 PM
  #149
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Stop answering him the guy is a complete moron.

Staal made a terrible play in the 3rd but it happens. McDonagh was awful against PITT the other night so I guess we should trade him too. Staal is going to be big for us in the playoffs i guarantee it. He is still putting his game back together especially the physical side. He has rushed up the ice more with the puck. His long reach and size will be crucial in the playoffs.
I can do that. Less wasting time anyway.

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03-24-2012, 12:50 AM
  #150
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Some Nashville fans seem to think Weber benefits more from Suter than anything else.
No..

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