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Gooses @ Eagles. 7pm. Verizon Center. 11.23.2012

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Old
03-25-2012, 02:25 AM
  #726
Halpysback
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
I literally have no idea how you're drawing any of these conclusions.

Sloan=arrogance. 20 minutes of Hendricks=dedication to winning at all costs.

I mean...I literally don't understand the way some people think.
Well Hendricks while limited does the things he can do pretty reliably. As much as people are crapping on the decision Hendricks and Beagle and co didn't make mistakes or get scored on while getting all that icetime.

Tyler Sloan is... Tyler Sloan. Playing him when not absolutely gun to the head necessary is more or less a war crime.

Also Hendricks got the cold shoulder from Hunter in the beginning.

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03-25-2012, 06:50 AM
  #727
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Well, the only controlling our own destiny as of now is to win out. Who's got the odds on that?

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03-25-2012, 08:07 AM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Roughing View Post
Well, the only controlling our own destiny as of now is to win out. Who's got the odds on that?
actually, with a win over buffalo this week and a current advantage in the first tie breaker, the caps would not have to win out.

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03-25-2012, 08:14 AM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Well Hendricks while limited does the things he can do pretty reliably. As much as people are crapping on the decision Hendricks and Beagle and co didn't make mistakes or get scored on while getting all that icetime.

Tyler Sloan is... Tyler Sloan. Playing him when not absolutely gun to the head necessary is more or less a war crime.

Also Hendricks got the cold shoulder from Hunter in the beginning.
you totally miss the point. by putting beagle and hendricks on the ice for almost half of all shifts in the 3rd period, that led directly to the puck being in the capitals end of the ice for the entire period.

yes, the jets did not score on beagle and hendricks. conversely beagle and hendricks almost never had possession of the puck for that entire time. that consequences. had ovechkin played a more average amount of ice the caps might have scored a goal to salt away the game. if semin had played a little, maybe the caps score that goal. maybe at least the puck gets into the jets end of the ice and forced them to play a little defense. at the same time giving the caps defense and goaltending a moment to breath.

you cant seriously be defending the idea of making brouwer, beagle and hendricks the caps top minutes forwards. are you?

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03-25-2012, 08:17 AM
  #730
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Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
Boudreau was definitely very stubborn, especially with his views of some players. Hunter may be stubborn in his own ways, but I think he at least doesn't have/play favorites like Boudreau did. Not that he's not doing a terrible job overall.
hunter may arrive at his favorites differently than boudreau but he still has them. beagle is a specific example of that.

by all evidence boudreau was not wrong about fleischmann either considering the level of his production on far less stacked offensive rosters in colorado and florida.

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03-25-2012, 09:07 AM
  #731
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
hunter may arrive at his favorites differently than boudreau but he still has them. beagle is a specific example of that.
I think that a noticeable drop-off in play from Beagle would quickly result in a noticeable drop in ice time for him. I may be wrong.

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03-25-2012, 09:19 AM
  #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Well Hendricks while limited does the things he can do pretty reliably. As much as people are crapping on the decision Hendricks and Beagle and co didn't make mistakes or get scored on while getting all that icetime.

Tyler Sloan is... Tyler Sloan. Playing him when not absolutely gun to the head necessary is more or less a war crime.

Also Hendricks got the cold shoulder from Hunter in the beginning.

Right. Hendricks isn't good but who does Hunter have available to put in his place? In Game 5 against the Habs, Boudreau chose Sloan over Alzner. It wasn't just a stupid mistake--that could be corrected--it was Boudreau thinking he could give a guy he likes (Sloan) a taste of sweet victory. Boudreau risked Washington Capitals' chance at the Cup on playing favors.

Hunter will never do that.

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03-25-2012, 09:22 AM
  #733
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Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
I think that a noticeable drop-off in play from Beagle would quickly result in a noticeable drop in ice time for him. I may be wrong.
for a player like beagle, there is a rational cap to the minutes he can play while even maximizing his game. 20 minutes is well over that cap. playing every other shift in overtime.

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03-25-2012, 09:27 AM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
Right. Hendricks isn't good but who does Hunter have available to put in his place? In Game 5 against the Habs, Boudreau chose Sloan over Alzner. It wasn't just a stupid mistake--that could be corrected--it was Boudreau thinking he could give a guy he likes (Sloan) a taste of sweet victory. Boudreau risked Washington Capitals' chance at the Cup on playing favors.

Hunter will never do that.
maybe i am wrong, but i dont recall boudreau ever skating sloan 25 minutes in a hockey game. i also dont recall him ever choosing to cut green and morrisonn's minutes so that he could protect a 1 goal 3rd period lead by sending out sloan every other shift.

you are confusing two different things. nobody has an issue with beagle and hendricks dressing and playing, which is your complaint about sloan. using beagle and hendricks as toi leaders among forwards and using them every other shift while they were pinned in their own end of the ice is a completely different thing.

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03-25-2012, 09:32 AM
  #735
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Maybe I am wrong but I never saw a Beagle grade step up in Sloan's game.

You are confusing two different players.

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03-25-2012, 09:43 AM
  #736
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Maybe I am wrong but I never saw a Beagle grade step up in Sloan's game.

You are confusing two different players.
grade set up? when has beagle stepped up to a first line minutes player? pavel datsyuk skates on average 19:26.

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03-25-2012, 09:52 AM
  #737
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In for November thread, btw.

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03-25-2012, 10:11 AM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
it was Boudreau thinking he could give a guy he likes (Sloan) a taste of sweet victory.
I really don't think so. Boudreau's favoritism always seemed to be based on a real belief that the players to whom he was giving perhaps unearned ice time had more to show. Fleischmann was his Ovechkin in Hershey, and he believed Fleischmann could be a first-liner (I guess) in the NHL too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
for a player like beagle, there is a rational cap to the minutes he can play while even maximizing his game. 20 minutes is well over that cap. playing every other shift in overtime.
Beagle is his checking-line center right now. His checking-line center was going to get 20 minutes in that game, unfortunately. If Hunter notices Beagle not handling that role well (in his eyes, probably if Beagle had been on for a goal against in that third period), he will probably designate someone else as his checking-line center. That player would have gotten those 20 minutes.

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03-25-2012, 10:59 AM
  #739
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Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
Beagle is his checking-line center right now. His checking-line center was going to get 20 minutes in that game, unfortunately. If Hunter notices Beagle not handling that role well (in his eyes, probably if Beagle had been on for a goal against in that third period), he will probably designate someone else as his checking-line center. That player would have gotten those 20 minutes.
talk to me about defense first checking line centers in this league that regularly play 20 minutes?? giving jay beagle 20 is like john madden in his prime skating 20 and that didnt happen.

have a look at the league leaders among forwards in toi. which of them is not first line center with defensive skills? which is them is a defense only forward? i dont see one. you are wrong on this.

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03-25-2012, 11:09 AM
  #740
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
talk to me about defense first checking line centers in this league that regularly play 20 minutes?? giving jay beagle 20 is like john madden in his prime skating 20 and that didnt happen.

have a look at the league leaders among forwards in toi. which of them is not first line center with defensive skills? which is them is a defense only forward? i dont see one. you are wrong on this.
No, I'm not. Beagle is not averaging 20 minutes either. Hunter's strategy in that game to protect the lead was to play his defense-only players. Beagle is his primary defensive forward right now, so he got those minutes. I obviously think the whole thing was stupid regardless, but I see no evidence that Beagle skated all that time because he's Hunter's favorite. He's the "favorite" right now in that Hunter likes his performance, but if that changes, so will Beagle's role.

I actually don't particularly like a lot of Hunter's approach to distribution of ice time and picking his lineup. I like that it seems to be based on some conception of merit, but I think that conception is way too simplistic.

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03-25-2012, 11:29 AM
  #741
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i'll be honest, i dont think hunter played beagle as a favorite. i dont think boudreau played fleischmann as a favorite either.

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03-25-2012, 12:11 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
I really don't think so. Boudreau's favoritism always seemed to be based on a real belief that the players to whom he was giving perhaps unearned ice time had more to show. Fleischmann was his Ovechkin in Hershey, and he believed Fleischmann could be a first-liner (I guess) in the NHL too.

Boudreau did a lot of good things. But it's like he himself believes he has a tragic flaw: Stubbornness.

It's like the universe writes itself out and he is powerless to change it. Sloan over Alzner. Flash over anyone (Flash was total **** in the playoffs). Neuvy over Varly. For all his good qualities, I don't believe Boudreau will ever win it because of the way he comes at the game. He turns his mind off too often.

I'm wait and see with Hunter. Give him a good team (not this year's bunch) and see what he can do.

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03-25-2012, 04:00 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
I HATE line matching...
Line matching has it's place but it should only happen when you have a line that is killing you. If you can't slow a group down by other means then trying to match a line designed to do that against them makes sense, especially in the playoffs.

But to just to go into most games looking to match you checkers up with their top line just because is just a terrible strategical decision.

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03-25-2012, 04:10 PM
  #744
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their was an organEYEzational belief in Fleischmann. It was why they bent over backwards to find a way to make him fit. When traded to Colorado he lit it up til the blood clots hit. Now he is, what?, second in scoring on the Panthers who are making things happen?

Personally, the Caps would be better off had they kept him.

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03-25-2012, 04:10 PM
  #745
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Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
Hunter's strategy in that game to protect the lead was to play his defense-only players. Beagle is his primary defensive forward right now, so he got those minutes.
No that was not his strategy. His strategy was to throw Beagle's line out every time the Jets' top line came over the boards. Noel saw this and rode his top line as much as he could because he knew that would limit the amount of time the Caps top forwards would play.

Hunter got played like a piano by Noel...

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03-25-2012, 04:20 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
you totally miss the point. by putting beagle and hendricks on the ice for almost half of all shifts in the 3rd period, that led directly to the puck being in the capitals d of the ice for the entire period.

yes, the jets did not score on beagle and hendricks. conversely beagle and hendricks almost never had possession of the puck for that entire time. that consequences. had ovechkin played a more average amount of ice the caps might have scored a goal to salt away the game. if semin had played a little, maybe the caps score that goal. maybe at least the puck gets into the jets end of the ice and forced them to play a little defense. at the same time giving the caps defense and goaltending a moment to breath.

you cant seriously be defending the idea of making brouwer, beagle and hendricks the caps top minutes forwards. are you?
You're missing the point. Hunter wanted to go super defensive. Whether or not you think that was a good idea, you can make a good argument that Beagle, Hendricks, Brouwer and Laich are the best forwards on this team suited for shutdown duty. As in, they're not bad at it and if you're trying to close out a game leading by a goal with 2 minutes left, having them on the ice for most of that time won't result in a goal against and can be considered a hockey decision.

Tyler Sloan, on the other hand, is extremely bad at everything and playing him the way Bruce was has no hockey explanation.

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03-25-2012, 04:23 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
No that was not his strategy. His strategy was to throw Beagle's line out every time the Jets' top line came over the boards. Noel saw this and rode his top line as much as he could because he knew that would limit the amount of time the Caps top forwards would play.

Hunter got played like a piano by Noel...
Okay, yes, that is a specific version of what I outlined. I said it before: Beagle was his checking-line center, a defense-only player, so he got those minutes. I certainly am not on Hunter's side on this. Noel's comments after the game definitely made Hunter look like a fool.

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03-25-2012, 04:23 PM
  #748
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
their was an organEYEzational belief in Fleischmann. It was why they bent over backwards to find a way to make him fit. When traded to Colorado he lit it up til the blood clots hit. Now he is, what?, second in scoring on the Panthers who are making things happen?

Personally, the Caps would be better off had they kept him.
There's a lot of players out there I'd rather have for 4.5 than Fleischmann. Cole for one.

Then again, that goes for like a third of the roster at their cap hits.

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03-25-2012, 04:41 PM
  #749
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Liking the energy by Ovi so far.

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