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03-24-2012, 11:58 PM
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Celtic Note
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Outside Question about your LHD

Looking at your current and prospect depth at the LHD position it seems like you have an abundance. As such, I was wondering if you would possibly move any of it to improve deficiencies elsewhere.

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03-25-2012, 12:00 AM
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Looking at your current and prospect depth at the LHD position it seems like you have an abundance. As such, I was wondering if you would possibly move any of it to improve deficiencies elsewhere.
What did you have in mind? We need top 6 forwards.

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03-25-2012, 12:09 AM
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We'll give you Roszival right now for a good return.

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03-25-2012, 12:22 AM
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Good question. We have so many. Even if Summers makes the club next year, in a few seasons we need to make room for Gormley as well. I don't expect Schlemko to stick with us.

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03-25-2012, 12:44 AM
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If the Blues offered up a package with either Chris Stewart or Ty Rattie centered packages, who could they get?

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03-25-2012, 12:48 AM
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If the Blues offered up a package with either Chris Stewart or Ty Rattie centered packages, who could they get?
I like Stewart but Yandle and OEL would be non starters in a discussion if he's the key piece heading back.

I can see some interest in Rattie; however, we passed on him on purpose last year. We wouldn't deal a Gormely or a Rundblad straight up in this type of situation either.

Edit: Phoenix has set their sites on a future Top 4 of OEL, Yandle, Gormely, and Rundblad. Anyone not listed in that top 4 is more readily available. I don't see any of those names being available for packages centered around either Rattie or Stewart.


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03-25-2012, 01:12 AM
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Yeah we need a 2-way top 4 LHD, so that rules out a lot of your depth. I already knew OEL and Yandle wouldn't be available for very understandable reasons. So that pretty much left Gormely. I figured the Coyotes would need some frontline fire power, as they are lacking there right now. I also realize that the Coyotes are in ownership trouble and won't likely ever have much money to sign free agents, so a trade is about the only way to solve the dilemma...unless you try your luck with mid round draft picks.

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03-25-2012, 01:16 AM
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Yeah we need a 2-way top 4 LHD, so that rules out a lot of your depth. I already knew OEL and Yandle wouldn't be available for very understandable reasons. So that pretty much left Gormely. I figured the Coyotes would need some frontline fire power, as they are lacking there right now. I also realize that the Coyotes are in ownership trouble and won't likely ever have much money to sign free agents, so a trade is about the only way to solve the dilemma...unless you try your luck with mid round draft picks.
Depends where we are playing next season as well.

Maloney seems to be very good at dumpster diving. Whitney, Vrbata, Korpedo, Brule, etc. all great value finds. Hanzel and Boedker have room to grow offensively as well.

New CBA and a salary rollback might push some teams into a unfriendly cap situation which might work in our favor as well.

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03-25-2012, 01:39 AM
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Depends where we are playing next season as well.

Maloney seems to be very good at dumpster diving. Whitney, Vrbata, Korpedo, Brule, etc. all great value finds. Hanzel and Boedker have room to grow offensively as well.

New CBA and a salary rollback might push some teams into a unfriendly cap situation which might work in our favor as well.
The CBA will for sure be a flip of a coin. I don't even want to think about it to be honest. I have faith it will all work out well, but that faith is very cautious. Even if the new CBA works out ok and high payroll teams need to slim down, they will likely be selling off their higher priced players. For budget teams, they can only take on so many of those. Given that the Coyotes seem to need about 3 or so top 6/9 players to be contenders (my opinion...feel free to disagree), they will have to be very on task to meet those needs and keep a balanced budget regardless of where they end up next year. After all, most cities that can afford to run high payroll teams, have teams right now. And, there are only so many so owners that can afford to run at a loss. My point is merely to try to be as realistic as possible about future outcomes for teams I analyze and this seems a fair interpretation of what might come (could obviously be wrong though).

As for Maloney, he has done pretty well dumpster diving as you put it. Those were some solid value finds. But to push the team to the next level, he will have to make some tough decisions about where the team heads in the future. A good portion of your point producers are getting up there in age and the FA market seems to get tighter every year.

As a guy who has liked the Coyotes since their inception, I honestly hope they can put together a better future. Their past has been frustrating to fans and I would like their patience to see some reward.

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03-25-2012, 09:22 AM
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Ty Rattie's having an incredible season so it seems fair value that he could get a Gormley or Rundblad in return.

Maloney thinks a great deal of Gormley and Rundblad though so he probably doesnt make the deal despite that. Phoenix is never going to be a team that plays the other team off the rink, they rely on their underrated defensive talent - kinda like a Nashville team.

Isnt St.Louis the same? Dont they need to hang onto their own offensive prospects? Also if you're after a top 4 defenseman, Gormley's not yet played in the NHL so probably needs some acclimatisation.

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03-25-2012, 10:21 AM
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The CBA will for sure be a flip of a coin. I don't even want to think about it to be honest. I have faith it will all work out well, but that faith is very cautious. Even if the new CBA works out ok and high payroll teams need to slim down, they will likely be selling off their higher priced players. For budget teams, they can only take on so many of those. Given that the Coyotes seem to need about 3 or so top 6/9 players to be contenders (my opinion...feel free to disagree), they will have to be very on task to meet those needs and keep a balanced budget regardless of where they end up next year. After all, most cities that can afford to run high payroll teams, have teams right now. And, there are only so many so owners that can afford to run at a loss. My point is merely to try to be as realistic as possible about future outcomes for teams I analyze and this seems a fair interpretation of what might come (could obviously be wrong though).

As for Maloney, he has done pretty well dumpster diving as you put it. Those were some solid value finds. But to push the team to the next level, he will have to make some tough decisions about where the team heads in the future. A good portion of your point producers are getting up there in age and the FA market seems to get tighter every year.

As a guy who has liked the Coyotes since their inception, I honestly hope they can put together a better future. Their past has been frustrating to fans and I would like their patience to see some reward.
There will be some trades yes. I just don't see Maloney rushing out to deal anyone from the Fab 4 unless it is a sure fire star forward coming back.

Phoenix is multiple steps at forward from taking it to the next level. It could very well get much much worse if both Whitney and Doan sign elsewhere in the summer. That being said... the long-term strategy has to be draft and develop. Phoenix is not going to be able to be able to find 3-4 assets that can play in their top 6 through trade. 1 maybe 2 but not 4.

Build from the goal line out. We have solid G and D prospects. Next step is the forward position.

Rattie is a very good prospect. His lack of size might be a detriment. Where does he fit on a relatively stacked Blues team as well. Gormely is the higher ranked prospect (according to THN's most recent list). D always carry a premium in a trade as well which is why I would not under any uncertain terms deal Gormely for Rattie straight up.

Stewart is an enigma. He would be a high risk / high reward type player. I'm betting our scouts either love him or absolutely wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. He's that polarizing.

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03-25-2012, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Gwyddbwyll View Post
Ty Rattie's having an incredible season so it seems fair value that he could get a Gormley or Rundblad in return.

Maloney thinks a great deal of Gormley and Rundblad though so he probably doesnt make the deal despite that. Phoenix is never going to be a team that plays the other team off the rink, they rely on their underrated defensive talent - kinda like a Nashville team.

Isnt St.Louis the same? Dont they need to hang onto their own offensive prospects? Also if you're after a top 4 defenseman, Gormley's not yet played in the NHL so probably needs some acclimatisation.

I agree that Phoenix will likely have to rely on their goalies and defense on out, but eventually they are going to need to balance fire power across multiple lines if they wish to contend. Nashville has learned that lesson and has been trying to add that desperately needed offense.

St. Louis is a bit of a different story. We play a strong team defensive game, but that isn't because of our lack of scoring balance. We have three lines that can score and be considered scoring lines (ie top six caliber). What we lack is a PPG player and (after this year) a guy who can keep up with Pietrangelo on the left side. It seems as though Tarasenko could be that PPG player and Schwartz to a slightly lesser degree. Ian Cole might be the guy to keep up with Petro, but I think fans would be more comfortable with another player with higher potential and more likely to reach it. As of now we can make do with some learning curve adjustments from a guy like Gormely and probably wait on him to season a bit more, especially given our team D philosophy and our other solid Dmen.

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03-25-2012, 12:13 PM
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There will be some trades yes. I just don't see Maloney rushing out to deal anyone from the Fab 4 unless it is a sure fire star forward coming back.

Phoenix is multiple steps at forward from taking it to the next level. It could very well get much much worse if both Whitney and Doan sign elsewhere in the summer. That being said... the long-term strategy has to be draft and develop. Phoenix is not going to be able to be able to find 3-4 assets that can play in their top 6 through trade. 1 maybe 2 but not 4.

Build from the goal line out. We have solid G and D prospects. Next step is the forward position.

Rattie is a very good prospect. His lack of size might be a detriment. Where does he fit on a relatively stacked Blues team as well. Gormely is the higher ranked prospect (according to THN's most recent list). D always carry a premium in a trade as well which is why I would not under any uncertain terms deal Gormely for Rattie straight up.

Stewart is an enigma. He would be a high risk / high reward type player. I'm betting our scouts either love him or absolutely wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. He's that polarizing.
Some good bits of information here, just as there was from Gwyddbwyll. Good talk so far.

I get that Maloney likes those four, but where do all they fit in future lineup projections? Regardless, their potential in those areas is strong and something to look forward to for sure.

I agree that the Coyotes have built well from the goal out and should continue to focus on player development, but at some point they will have to address areas of need via transaction. Waiting for young player to develop and fill current NHL level needs can allow for your chance to win the Cup to close. Plus, given about 2-3 years and with the right moves, I could see you all being ready to challenge. Loosing Doan and Whitney would definitely hurt, but I bet you could get multiple top 6 guys in trades in addition to signing a FA or two.

As for Rattie and Stewart...
Like you said Stewart is an enigma at this point. He is a guy that is potentially high risk, high reward. Being such, I wouldn't guess the Coyotes would be the right fit, but I threw his name out to better gauge that notion.

Rattie on the other hand is a player I and others would be reluctant to give up. He has an uncanny ability to be at the right place at the right time. His shot is lethal and he is building strength. Apparently he gained nearly ten pounds of muscle last summer when he decided that it was time to call it quits on summer baseball and focus on building an NHL body. So far the results look good, but it is still something that plays a role in assessing his future.

With the Blues being relatively stacked at the wings, Rattie is going to have a tough time getting in the lineup. This could however change quickly if the Blues either trade Chris Stewart or continue to have a strict, low level budget.

I also agree that Gormely has greater value at this point, but the gap isn't as big as it once was IMO. That said, the Blues would still have to add a piece or pieces to make reach the value of Gormely. Thats where I think discussing needs and bartering comes into play.

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03-25-2012, 12:27 PM
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Some good bits of information here, just as there was from Gwyddbwyll. Good talk so far.

I get that Maloney likes those four, but where do all they fit in future lineup projections? Regardless, their potential in those areas is strong and something to look forward to for sure.

I agree that the Coyotes have built well from the goal out and should continue to focus on player development, but at some point they will have to address areas of need via transaction. Waiting for young player to develop and fill current NHL level needs can allow for your chance to win the Cup to close. Plus, given about 2-3 years and with the right moves, I could see you all being ready to challenge. Loosing Doan and Whitney would definitely hurt, but I bet you could get multiple top 6 guys in trades in addition to signing a FA or two.

As for Rattie and Stewart...
Like you said Stewart is an enigma at this point. He is a guy that is potentially high risk, high reward. Being such, I wouldn't guess the Coyotes would be the right fit, but I threw his name out to better gauge that notion.

Rattie on the other hand is a player I and others would be reluctant to give up. He has an uncanny ability to be at the right place at the right time. His shot is lethal and he is building strength. Apparently he gained nearly ten pounds of muscle last summer when he decided that it was time to call it quits on summer baseball and focus on building an NHL body. So far the results look good, but it is still something that plays a role in assessing his future.

With the Blues being relatively stacked at the wings, Rattie is going to have a tough time getting in the lineup. This could however change quickly if the Blues either trade Chris Stewart or continue to have a strict, low level budget.

I also agree that Gormely has greater value at this point, but the gap isn't as big as it once was IMO. That said, the Blues would still have to add a piece or pieces to make reach the value of Gormely. Thats where I think discussing needs and bartering comes into play.
Top 2 pairings project to be Yandle/Gormely + OEL/Rundblad within 2 seasons. Those two units should be able to play 45-50 minutes every game leaving the #5/6 spots to more shutdown type D units.

This is where the real value lies for a team looking to pry talent from Phoenix.

Summers, Stone, Murphy, Ruopp, Goncharov are the names in the mix for those two spots.

Goncharov has the highest rating according to THN. I personally think that was a plant by management. I think Goncharov could be gone from the organization at season's end. He's dropped down the organizational depth chart in recent years.

Summers to me is the real deal. Great skating d man. Love his game. Has been ready for prime time since December and hasn't disappointed when he's been in the lineup.

Stone. Tippett loves his size and his emerging offensive game. Has a very good shot. I still think he's a year away myself. His worst showing in weeks was last night in San Jose.

Murphy. I loved his selection at the 2011 entry draft. I may have been alone on these boards though. A troubling history of injuries (which up until this year were the result of improper training techniques). Pinpoint accuracy from the point. He's a #3/#4 d man.

Ruopp. Stats are awful but reputation is he's a mean and very nasty player to play against.

2012 1st round draft pick? It's looking right now that we are taking a D. It's that type of draft.

In regards to a Rattie for Gormely type scenario. Rattie is slightly undersized with strength issues. He's at least a year from the NHL level. Gormely is coming off a very strong WJC where he was named top defenseman in the tournament. He has a very good chance of making the squad next year out of training camp. There's still a gap in terms of value between these two players. I still maintain Phoenix would want a more proven top line commodity to move Gormely.

As for the future. I honestly believe there is potential for a Yandle move. I think Philadelphia is going to be caught in cap hell and will be looking for something. I could see a Braydon Schenn + Daniel Briere type trade package at the draft. I also could see Anaheim moving 9 goal Ryan Getzlaf as well this summer and I think Maloney would be clamoring to finally address our need for a 1st line center.


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03-25-2012, 12:35 PM
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Top 2 pairings project to be Yandle/Gormely + OEL/Rundblad within 2 seasons. Those two units should be able to play 45-50 minutes every game leaving the #5/6 spots to more shutdown type D units.

This is where the real value lies for a team looking to pry talent from Phoenix.

Summers, Stone, Murphy, Ruopp, Goncharov are the names in the mix for those two spots.

Goncharov has the highest rating according to THN. I personally think that was a plant by management. I think Goncharov could be gone from the organization at season's end. He's dropped down the organizational depth chart in recent years.

Summers to me is the real deal. Great skating d man. Love his game. Has been ready for prime time since December and hasn't disappointed when he's been in the lineup.

Stone. Tippett loves his size and his emerging offensive game. Has a very good shot. I still think he's a year away myself. His worst showing in weeks was last night in San Jose.

Murphy. I loved his selection at the 2011 entry draft. I may have been alone on these boards though. A troubling history of injuries (which up until this year were the result of improper training techniques). Pinpoint accuracy from the point. He's a #3/#4 d man.

Ruopp. Stats are awful but reputation is he's a mean and very nasty player to play against.

2012 1st round draft pick? It's looking right now that we are taking a D. It's that type of draft.
If those are the guys you are trading, then there will have to be very strong additional assets as part of the package to get any legit top 6 forwards.

With that said, what do you guys see as being the trade value of Summers, Stone and Murphy?

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03-25-2012, 12:50 PM
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If those are the guys you are trading, then there will have to be very strong additional assets as part of the package to get any legit top 6 forwards.

With that said, what do you guys see as being the trade value of Summers, Stone and Murphy?
2 will likely stay to fill out the last two pairings.

Murphy's still a work in process given his relative lack of playing time in recent years. He's not even close to reaching his full asset value.

In terms of value on Summers and Stone. They would be moved to get 2nd line players. Likely in deals for teams looking to dump some salary. Here's where a player like Stewart could potentially be of interest to Phoenix. That of course assumes that the Coyotes scouting staff are fans of his game.

St. Louis played a high price to grab Stewart in the first place though. Not sure if their management would be prepared to make that type of move right now. They certainly would want something else included.

Here's my prediction:
I honestly believe there is potential for a Yandle move. I think Philadelphia is going to be caught in cap hell and will be looking for something. I could see a Braydon Schenn + Daniel Briere type trade package at the draft. I also could see Anaheim moving 9 goal Ryan Getzlaf as well this summer and I think Maloney would be clamoring to finally address our need for a 1st line center.


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03-25-2012, 03:18 PM
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2 will likely stay to fill out the last two pairings.

Murphy's still a work in process given his relative lack of playing time in recent years. He's not even close to reaching his full asset value.

In terms of value on Summers and Stone. They would be moved to get 2nd line players. Likely in deals for teams looking to dump some salary. Here's where a player like Stewart could potentially be of interest to Phoenix. That of course assumes that the Coyotes scouting staff are fans of his game.

St. Louis played a high price to grab Stewart in the first place though. Not sure if their management would be prepared to make that type of move right now. They certainly would want something else included.

Here's my prediction:
I honestly believe there is potential for a Yandle move. I think Philadelphia is going to be caught in cap hell and will be looking for something. I could see a Braydon Schenn + Daniel Briere type trade package at the draft. I also could see Anaheim moving 9 goal Ryan Getzlaf as well this summer and I think Maloney would be clamoring to finally address our need for a 1st line center.
I think your right about Murphy. He has a long way to go and teams probably won't give up established players for him unless they are rebuilding. Its probably best to hold onto him and hope he continues to move closer to his potential. The kid obviously has talent, so the best move is to probably hold onto him.

Summers and Stone certainly offer some interest, but a package centered around one of them for Stewart would be underwhelming. If there was a move centered around Summers + for D'Agostini, it might be worth discussing.

I also agree that a move of Yandle might be your best bet moving forward. It would certainly hurt to let a guy like that go, but the return would make up for the loss.

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